Author Topic: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...  (Read 15797 times)

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Specky

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #120 on: January 11, 2013, 02:57:38 PM »
There is also the possibility that the use of inappropriate techniques and philosophies by this teacher may have led to the outburst and behaviors.  I've seen this happen.

Sharnita

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #121 on: January 11, 2013, 02:59:16 PM »
You are generally required to work with purple children in order to get purple certification.

Tabby Uprising

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #122 on: January 11, 2013, 03:07:33 PM »
This is slightly off topic, but I am curious how the teacher should have handled the situation.  What would the purple technique have her do when a child is violent and kicking the wall, and how does that differ from what the pink technique would do?

The purple technique assumes that the behavior is related to processing difficulties secondary to the disability.  Techniques include reducing the sensory input in the environment and redirecting.  Pink technique assumes the behavior is the primary disability and needs to be consequenced without any other techniques attempted.  Restraining increases, not decreases, the sensory overload.

In actual action though what should the teacher have done?  The only thing I can think of to reduce sensory input would be to remove the child from the room, which would likely involve picking up a kicking and screaming child. I think I am having a difficult time understanding in real terms what technique the teacher should have used.  I might better understand why the restraining was so offensive if I knew what you (OP) wanted her to have done instead.  I never saw the restraining as a punishment or "consequence" but rather "how do I get this child to stop this behavior before he hurts himself or someone else."

But we don't need to know or speculate on what the teacher should have done.  We don't need to speculate on what "purple" and "pink" actually mean and we don't need to try and cobble together a more suitable behavioral plan for the OP's child based on what we think "purple" equals.

The point is if this special education teacher was properly trained and experienced in dealing with purple disability and was following purple guidelines she would have taken the appropriate action. 

I know the idea of an apology in is question, but given the fact this is the OP's child I am going to take her word that she knows what purple is, has read about it, gone to the appropriate purple experts about it and knows that the teacher wasn't trained/experienced in purple.  The teacher herself admitted that. 

A person with a disability was in the care of an individual who was not trained in that disability.  The caregiver, for a year, made polite efforts to have that situation addressed.  Ultimately, caregiver "blew up" at the untrained individual, leaving both in tears, but finally getting the situation resolved.  Does that warrant an apology to the untrained individual?

TurtleDove

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #123 on: January 11, 2013, 03:12:31 PM »
You are generally required to work with purple children in order to get purple certification.

Wait - so we know what "purple" stands for?  Because if it is what I think it is, and pink is what I think it is, then I do not see the big deal in the difference in technique.  For me, to understand, it really does matter what purple technique would have had the teacher do.  If purple technique said to start singing lullabyes and instead the teacher did the pink technique of restraint, I might understand.  If purple technique said "gather legs together to stop flailing" I don't see the big deal.

TurtleDove

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #124 on: January 11, 2013, 03:13:42 PM »
A person with a disability was in the care of an individual who was not trained in that disability.  The caregiver, for a year, made polite efforts to have that situation addressed.  Ultimately, caregiver "blew up" at the untrained individual, leaving both in tears, but finally getting the situation resolved.  Does that warrant an apology to the untrained individual?

In my opinion, yes.

Sharnita

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #125 on: January 11, 2013, 03:14:55 PM »
We don't know.  Regardless of what it is, you don't get certified in "it" without working with the kids.  It would be like becoming a heart surgeon before you ever got near a heart. The way you learn is practice, discussion, documentation, writing ...

TurtleDove

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #126 on: January 11, 2013, 03:17:31 PM »
We don't know.  Regardless of what it is, you don't get certified in "it" without working with the kids.  It would be like becoming a heart surgeon before you ever got near a heart. The way you learn is practice, discussion, documentation, writing ...

I guess my point is that if the teacher only wanted to get credit, she would be pursuing the accreditation.  And based on this, then, the teacher WAS learning and working toward her accreditation.

Dalek

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #127 on: January 11, 2013, 03:19:20 PM »
I'm going to go against the majority here (and I'll probably get flamed, but I feel it needs to be said): I think the OP owes the teacher an apology for her remarks about the teacher's career aspirations. It was out of line, and all the 'but it's your CHILD!' mama bear-type defences in the world  don't change that. Even if she feels she was justified, think of this: every teacher in the school now regards the OP as that parent - the one who will make accusations about you having a personal agenda/vendetta. This means every interaction they have with your child will be fear-based, and while some people may regard that as a good thing, I don't - I'd rather have honest input and a different perspective than the placation of someone who is scared I will overreact. Apologising for the out-of-line remarks woudl go some way to mitigating this.

I agree wholeheartedly with CatFanatic.

Me, too. OP's behavior strikes me as inappropriate even if the teacher was motivated by purely selfish impulse and needed to be replaced.

Amen!
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Tabby Uprising

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #128 on: January 11, 2013, 03:49:12 PM »
I'm going to go against the majority here (and I'll probably get flamed, but I feel it needs to be said): I think the OP owes the teacher an apology for her remarks about the teacher's career aspirations. It was out of line, and all the 'but it's your CHILD!' mama bear-type defences in the world  don't change that. Even if she feels she was justified, think of this: every teacher in the school now regards the OP as that parent - the one who will make accusations about you having a personal agenda/vendetta. This means every interaction they have with your child will be fear-based, and while some people may regard that as a good thing, I don't - I'd rather have honest input and a different perspective than the placation of someone who is scared I will overreact. Apologising for the out-of-line remarks woudl go some way to mitigating this.

I agree wholeheartedly with CatFanatic.

Me, too. OP's behavior strikes me as inappropriate even if the teacher was motivated by purely selfish impulse and needed to be replaced.

Amen!

Okay, but do you also think the teacher owes the OP an apology for ignoring the special needs of her child?  Do you think the teacher owes the child himself an apology for ignoring his purple disability and treating him like a pink?

TurtleDove

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #129 on: January 11, 2013, 03:52:41 PM »
Okay, but do you also think the teacher owes the OP an apology for ignoring the special needs of her child?  Do you think the teacher owes the child himself an apology for ignoring his purple disability and treating him like a pink?

This wasn't directed to me, but I will answer.  My answer depends on the specifics I posted upthread.  If I am guessing correctly on what purple and pink are and what actually happened, and if this is the same teacher the OP posted about previously on Ehell, no, I don't think the teacher owes an apology.  It might be nice for her to give one, but I do not find her actions to shock the conscience at all.

Tabby Uprising

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #130 on: January 11, 2013, 03:59:48 PM »
Okay, but do you also think the teacher owes the OP an apology for ignoring the special needs of her child?  Do you think the teacher owes the child himself an apology for ignoring his purple disability and treating him like a pink?

This wasn't directed to me, but I will answer.  My answer depends on the specifics I posted upthread.  If I am guessing correctly on what purple and pink are and what actually happened, and if this is the same teacher the OP posted about previously on Ehell, no, I don't think the teacher owes an apology.  It might be nice for her to give one, but I do not find her actions to shock the conscience at all.

I haven't read the previous comments about this teacher so I lack the benefit of that perspective.  And I have no clue about purple/pink and what actually happened - all I can think of are pretty colors!

But as to the bolded, from my perspective I'd say the same regarding the OP's actions.

TurtleDove

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #131 on: January 11, 2013, 04:04:53 PM »
But as to the bolded, from my perspective I'd say the same regarding the OP's actions.
Oh, I agree.  My wording may have implied something other than I meant.  To me, it seems some posters believe the teacher's actions DID shock the conscience.  I don't think either of their actions did, although I do think the OP was wrong in how she handled the situation and that it would be in her and her DS's best interest to apologize.  And as I said, I think the teacher probably would be better off apologizing for the altercation situation also.  But based on what I know from what the OP posted, I do not think the teacher had it out for the DS or actively was harming him throughout the year or during the incident in question. I don't think she needs to apologize for making a split second decision to restrain a violent child.  I do think that if it would help the OP get over it, the teacher should apologize though.

buvezdevin

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #132 on: January 11, 2013, 04:19:34 PM »
But as to the bolded, from my perspective I'd say the same regarding the OP's actions.
Oh, I agree.  My wording may have implied something other than I meant.  To me, it seems some posters believe the teacher's actions DID shock the conscience.  I don't think either of their actions did, although I do think the OP was wrong in how she handled the situation and that it would be in her and her DS's best interest to apologize.  And as I said, I think the teacher probably would be better off apologizing for the altercation situation also.  But based on what I know from what the OP posted, I do not think the teacher had it out for the DS or actively was harming him throughout the year or during the incident in question. I don't think she needs to apologize for making a split second decision to restrain a violent child.  I do think that if it would help the OP get over it, the teacher should apologize though.

Where I differ from Turtledove on this stems from my read of the OP (discussion of restraining techniques not working occurred regularly over months, the issue persisted, and teacher said she was learning about purple as quickly as she could then later acknowledged she had been to busy to train during the year) and what I think Turtledove is reading as a single instance of restraint. 

It it were a one-time occurrence, with discussion/agreement on what would work going forward, that might be upsetting, but an emotionally charged discussion would seem counter-productive.

If this was a repeated occurrence, where OP - or anyone - repeatedly raised the matter of the inappropriate and ineffective technique, had that information accepted and was told the teacher was working to learn appropriate techniques - then, wash, lather repeat - I think OP becoming emotional was completely understandable, and rather than make any apology, the most I would suggest OP should do is be appreciative and supportive of current, trained teacher, and pursue productive and complimentary communications with those now involved in administration of the school.
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Dr. F.

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #133 on: January 11, 2013, 04:30:28 PM »
I believe the teacher the OP has posted about previously is the current "good" one, not the one discussed in her post in this thread, which is the one before the current one. I may be wrong about that.

Personally, I find the teacher discussed here's behaviour inexcusable, in that she completely ignored the input of the parent and continued pursuing an ineffective course, even though she had been given advice to use a different method.

Queen of Clubs

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #134 on: January 11, 2013, 05:27:00 PM »
I spoke with both of her supervisors in the next few days- the immediate supervisor to be told that we were getting a new teacher, because current teacher felt that I had attacked her personally and felt she was no longer able to work with me, and the director, who told me that I had not kept the discussion on a professional level and had "made it personal."

I don't blame you for getting emotional, OP.  Your son had been putting up with his teacher using the wrong techniques all year, then you found out his teacher (who said she would have training) hadn't had the training she'd promised to have.

I'd also be annoyed that you requested a different teacher several times, but was told that wasn't possible until the teacher got upset and refused to work with you.  I think the school handled this incredibly badly and it could all have been avoided if they'd listened to you months before.

As for the teacher and an apology, it'd be a cold day in you know where before I'd apologise.