Author Topic: Is this mean? Or do I just not know enough. I feel bad for him  (Read 9038 times)

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lurkerwisp

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Re: Is this mean? Or do I just not know enough. I feel bad for him
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2013, 03:54:32 PM »
Personally I think it would be petty to try to mess with the guys severance package because of this, so yes, I think your brother is being mean.  Iím not saying he wasnít wrong to try to access his old email account, but the poor guy was just trying to get some information to help in his new job search.  No harm was done, they should just let it go and change the password so he canít get in anymore, you know?

It's called being responsible for your actions.  He violated a policy and there are consequences.  Feel bad fro him all you want, but he made his own bed.

IMO its also called having some compassion and cutting someone a break.

Not really a thing that can be done.  It is a bad practice to show favoritism.  This guy made his own choices.  He could have chosen not to break the agreement in place.  He chose otherwise, and now there are consequences for that choice.

auntmeegs

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Re: Is this mean? Or do I just not know enough. I feel bad for him
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2013, 04:10:34 PM »
Personally I think it would be petty to try to mess with the guys severance package because of this, so yes, I think your brother is being mean.  Iím not saying he wasnít wrong to try to access his old email account, but the poor guy was just trying to get some information to help in his new job search.  No harm was done, they should just let it go and change the password so he canít get in anymore, you know?

It's called being responsible for your actions.  He violated a policy and there are consequences.  Feel bad fro him all you want, but he made his own bed.

IMO its also called having some compassion and cutting someone a break.

Not really a thing that can be done.  It is a bad practice to show favoritism.  This guy made his own choices.  He could have chosen not to break the agreement in place.  He chose otherwise, and now there are consequences for that choice.

I disagree.  I think they can choose to overlook the incident or possibly give him one reminder as warning. 

fountainof

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Re: Is this mean? Or do I just not know enough. I feel bad for him
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2013, 04:26:00 PM »
I probably wouldn't change the severance just because I wouldn't want to involved in kind of legal action but I would give the guy a stern lecture and then say he is now removed from the possible call back list.  You don't want to rehire employees with shady ethics.  If had a confidentiality agreement to contact clients for references is way out of line, the guy is either shady or an idiot, neither of which are good qualities for an employee.

Hmmmmm

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Re: Is this mean? Or do I just not know enough. I feel bad for him
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2013, 04:28:28 PM »
Personally I think it would be petty to try to mess with the guys severance package because of this, so yes, I think your brother is being mean.  Iím not saying he wasnít wrong to try to access his old email account, but the poor guy was just trying to get some information to help in his new job search.  No harm was done, they should just let it go and change the password so he canít get in anymore, you know?

Where in the OP did it state why the ex employee was accessing the account?  I can't seem to find that.

If he needed info and having it was on the up and up, why couldn't he ask for the information instead of violating policy. 


auntmeegs

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Re: Is this mean? Or do I just not know enough. I feel bad for him
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2013, 04:38:18 PM »
Personally I think it would be petty to try to mess with the guys severance package because of this, so yes, I think your brother is being mean.  Iím not saying he wasnít wrong to try to access his old email account, but the poor guy was just trying to get some information to help in his new job search.  No harm was done, they should just let it go and change the password so he canít get in anymore, you know?

Where in the OP did it state why the ex employee was accessing the account?  I can't seem to find that.

If he needed info and having it was on the up and up, why couldn't he ask for the information instead of violating policy.

Now I'm confused.  Isn't that what this whole post was about to begin with, the fact that this employee went into his old email?  Maybe I am misinterpreting the OP but that's how I took it.
And I agree that he shouldn't have done what he did but maybe he was worried he wouldn't get the info, maybe he wasn't 100% clear on the policy, I don't know.  But the guy already got laid off.  To me, it would be bad karma to try to make his situation even worse when it doens't appear that any harm was done here. 

Hmmmmm

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Re: Is this mean? Or do I just not know enough. I feel bad for him
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2013, 04:49:36 PM »
Personally I think it would be petty to try to mess with the guys severance package because of this, so yes, I think your brother is being mean.  Iím not saying he wasnít wrong to try to access his old email account, but the poor guy was just trying to get some information to help in his new job search.  No harm was done, they should just let it go and change the password so he canít get in anymore, you know?

Where in the OP did it state why the ex employee was accessing the account?  I can't seem to find that.

If he needed info and having it was on the up and up, why couldn't he ask for the information instead of violating policy.

Now I'm confused.  Isn't that what this whole post was about to begin with, the fact that this employee went into his old email?  Maybe I am misinterpreting the OP but that's how I took it.
And I agree that he shouldn't have done what he did but maybe he was worried he wouldn't get the info, maybe he wasn't 100% clear on the policy, I don't know.  But the guy already got laid off.  To me, it would be bad karma to try to make his situation even worse when it doens't appear that any harm was done here.

I think you are assuming that he was trying to log into an email account to get information for a job search.  The OP only states the guy was "caught trying to access an account using his old email account". 

My company has a knowledge management database that houses a ton of company proprietary information.  My ID to access the database is my company email address though my password is different from my email password.  He very well could have been trying to access company confidential data.  He could have been trying to access his old email account to send out a virus to a massive email distribution list.  Or he could have been doing something as benign as getting email address from old contacts.  None of us know.

But in my experience, someone who works in IT would know the best path would be to just the company to allow you to get any personal data that you had in your email account.  You don't try to hack in after you have been terminated from the company. If I learned of this guys action, I would never hire him for an IT job as I would never trust him to not try to gain unauthorized access to company data.

auntmeegs

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Re: Is this mean? Or do I just not know enough. I feel bad for him
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2013, 04:59:45 PM »
Personally I think it would be petty to try to mess with the guys severance package because of this, so yes, I think your brother is being mean.  Iím not saying he wasnít wrong to try to access his old email account, but the poor guy was just trying to get some information to help in his new job search.  No harm was done, they should just let it go and change the password so he canít get in anymore, you know?

Where in the OP did it state why the ex employee was accessing the account?  I can't seem to find that.

If he needed info and having it was on the up and up, why couldn't he ask for the information instead of violating policy.

Now I'm confused.  Isn't that what this whole post was about to begin with, the fact that this employee went into his old email?  Maybe I am misinterpreting the OP but that's how I took it.
And I agree that he shouldn't have done what he did but maybe he was worried he wouldn't get the info, maybe he wasn't 100% clear on the policy, I don't know.  But the guy already got laid off.  To me, it would be bad karma to try to make his situation even worse when it doens't appear that any harm was done here.

I think you are assuming that he was trying to log into an email account to get information for a job search.  The OP only states the guy was "caught trying to access an account using his old email account". 

My company has a knowledge management database that houses a ton of company proprietary information.  My ID to access the database is my company email address though my password is different from my email password.  He very well could have been trying to access company confidential data.  He could have been trying to access his old email account to send out a virus to a massive email distribution list.  Or he could have been doing something as benign as getting email address from old contacts.  None of us know.

But in my experience, someone who works in IT would know the best path would be to just the company to allow you to get any personal data that you had in your email account.  You don't try to hack in after you have been terminated from the company. If I learned of this guys action, I would never hire him for an IT job as I would never trust him to not try to gain unauthorized access to company data.

Fair enough but it does say in the OP that he was just sending emails from his old account, asking for references. 

Sharnita

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Re: Is this mean? Or do I just not know enough. I feel bad for him
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2013, 05:25:37 PM »
I guess it seems like people are assuming a lot of things.  They are assuming he was clear on the policy and knowingly violated it. I am not at all sure that he did.  Even the term "hacked" seems misleading to me.  His account was apparently open - he typed in his current username and passeword.  To me that is pretty far from having "hacked" his way in. Like i said, different people have different understanding of what is expected from somebody who has been through a lay-off.  In many cases it might mean "hang tight, stay in touch - there is a good chance you will be back soon".  In that case they might be OK with the use of e-mail.  Teachers in some districts can still sub while they are waiting for callbacks in which case they definitely can use e-mail.  Now, the bosses clearly didn't intend for him to come back or use his e-mail but it is not clear if they conveyed that to him.  They left his e-mail account active and available which seems like one mixed message.  I have no idea if they were unclear or amigbuous in other ways.
 
It really seems like there was some responsibility on their end for protecting e-mail that they failed to take so if they are going hardcore about policies and procedures regarding him I would be curious to know if he is the only one held to that standard or if whoever left his account active is also having their feet held to the fire.

Sign Of The Times

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Re: Is this mean? Or do I just not know enough. I feel bad for him
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2013, 05:33:54 PM »
If he broke the rules, sorry but them's the breaks.
The best way out is always through. -- Frost

nonesuch4

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Re: Is this mean? Or do I just not know enough. I feel bad for him
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2013, 11:03:16 AM »
If he broke the rules, sorry but them's the breaks.
"Showing compassion" is going to backfire, somewhere, sometime.  The next person who is laid off/fired/RIF-ed can point to the incident and file a claim of discrimination if the same isn't done for him or her.  That person may not win, but the company will spend time and money and man-hours defending the actions they took. 

I would hypothesize that this fellow has been cut breaks in the past, and that is why he felt he could sneak around the system one more time.  I have dealt with people who genuinely needed compassion, I thought, but many times it was considered license to take advantage of colleagues again.  I had one co-worker who has created her own reality of how she's been taken advantage of.  Years of accommodating last-minute requests for time off (the very next day), calling out because she can't drive in, (it's snowing, or once it was raining, and she didn't have good windshield wipers), and no call-no shows because, well, she didn't really have a reasons for it,  she just decided not to come in, quitting the job at one point and lying to try to get unemployment, only created a sense of entitlement.   She was eventually laid off from that job, and ended up in another one, where her contribution isn't so crucial on a day-to-day basis.

She now bad-mouths her former employer for cheating her out of a pension.  And she still is getting "coached" on her current job her spotty and unreliable attendance.  Fortunately for her, the company is big enough to compensate for when she decides the weather is too bad to drive in - - and her boss isn't worthy of a phone call to tell her of her plans to stay home.  She's approaching retirement age (I suspect that's why they tolerate it) but she's never been held accountable, so she's never learned.

It would never occur to me to use my employer's email to look for a job somewhere else.  I'd be aware that human resources at my desired employer may view that as a bad thing- using my employer's  time and resources to leave them.

LilacRosey

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Re: Is this mean? Or do I just not know enough. I feel bad for him
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2013, 07:26:59 PM »
I dont know anything that would help sorry., LilacRosey