Public Marriage Proposals

[twiggy]

There was a proposal at the prom I chaperoned last night.  She said yes because they had been discussing getting engaged, but she admitted being surprised.  The assistant principal wasn't annoyed at the attention the boy had taken away from the rest of the prom, but he was gravely concerned that the girl's father might not have given his blessing in advance.  There are so many levels of etiquette in these matters.

Wait, what?  Please tell me you don't mean you think the young man was "rude" because he didn't ask her father's permission?

etiquette exists to help us through social interactions. In JacklynHyde's area, it might be totally commonplace and expected that a young man ask the father for his blessing. Note that JacklynHyde and I are using the word "blessing", not "permission". My DH talked with my father before he asked me to marry him, and I was touched that he did. Different strokes, as it were. 

Though, to be honest, I would still have married DH even if Dad wasn't a fan 

[Iris]

There was a proposal at the prom I chaperoned last night.  She said yes because they had been discussing getting engaged, but she admitted being surprised.  The assistant principal wasn't annoyed at the attention the boy had taken away from the rest of the prom, but he was gravely concerned that the girl's father might not have given his blessing in advance.  There are so many levels of etiquette in these matters.

Wait, what?  Please tell me you don't mean you think the young man was "rude" because he didn't ask her father's permission?

etiquette exists to help us through social interactions. In JacklynHyde's area, it might be totally commonplace and expected that a young man ask the father for his blessing. Note that JacklynHyde and I are using the word "blessing", not "permission". My DH talked with my father before he asked me to marry him, and I was touched that he did. Different strokes, as it were. 

Though, to be honest, I would still have married DH even if Dad wasn't a fan 

I appreciate different strokes and I'm glad your DH understood you so well, but "gravely concerned" that someone might not have asked for the father's blessing seems a bit OTT to me, regional differences notwithstanding. Of course it's always possible that these kids were not of legal age to marry, given that it was a prom, and that's why he was concerned so I may be speculating over the wrong thing entirely.

[Sophia]

Keep in mind that Prom is for High School kids.  So, generally, under 18 and also living at home.  Depending on the state and their age the parents might have to even sign their consent. 

[Twik]

Keep in mind that Prom is for High School kids.  So, generally, under 18 and also living at home.  Depending on the state and their age the parents might have to even sign their consent.

They have to give their consent to a marriage. There is no requirement that they give consent to their child agreeing to get married at some future time, particularly as such an agreement no longer has anything legally binding about it.

[KenveeB]

I was actually part of a public proposal yesterday! The happy couple are both actors at the local renaissance faire, and the groom-to-be planned it out to occur during one of the shows where the cast make announcements and advertise different shops and services at the faire. A few of the men came out and said they wanted to try the wedding services. The lord secretary (who always finds something to complain about) said they couldn't do that, you have to have a ring and a bride to get married. One of the ladies of the court said she could fix that and pulled out the bride-to-be. Then the GTB asked if anyone had a ring, and I ran up with The Ring. (I'd been carrying it around very nervously all morning!) Then he got down on one knee. It was beautiful. The BTB thought it was all just part of the performance until he got down on one knee. Her face was wonderful!

I think it worked for them because (1) they had been talking about marriage for a while. She'd even occasionally make comments to me about, "When 'Joe' and I get married..." So while the proposal was a surprise, the idea was not, and we knew she'd say yes, and (2) they're both performers and part of this group, and they worked it into the existing structure of the performance. So it was a nice show for all the people who weren't connected, while still being a great moment for the two of them.

[Mental Magpie]

That's awesome KenveeB!



Yes, but etiquette isn't sexist.  A father's blessing for his daughter's engagement is utterly outdated regardless of regional norms.  It is rude to assume that family is still living in times when the daughter belonged to the father.  It is none of the principal's concern, and frankly, had I overheard him being "gravely concerned" about this, I would have some words.

[Lynn2000]

Question though, is there a danger that 'discussing' marriage in a couple could be misinterpreted as a proposal? I've never been near the situation, so I wouldnt know. But it would suck to have your romantic proposal taken away.

I've never been near the situation, either (good way to put it), but I'm sure there have been many couples where one person was more eager to get married than the other, and took any discussion of the subject (or even mention of someone else's marriage) as a confirmation that the other person intended to marry them. And when couples get out of sync like that, it can lead to some very sticky situations.

I know couples who have discussed marriage, agreed to everything, shopped for the ring together even, but don't consider themselves actually ENGAGED until someone does a formal proposal and presents the ring. So you can have both the pragmatic discussion and the romantic proposal.

Personally, if we discussed the subject and agreed we were getting married in the near future and started taking steps towards that, I would consider myself engaged, and wouldn't need (or even want) an official "moment." So I wouldn't have a cute proposal story to tell people, but that's okay with me, because I don't consider that personally important. To each their own.

[WillyNilly]

Question though, is there a danger that 'discussing' marriage in a couple could be misinterpreted as a proposal? I've never been near the situation, so I wouldnt know. But it would suck to have your romantic proposal taken away.

I think there is a huge, huge, HUGE difference between discussing getting married and deciding to get married. I discussed marriage with every boyfriend i ever had [once I was] over 18 years old. With some the discussion was more serious then with others. But we didn't decide to get married until the last one (my now DH), and that came at the time of the proposal. because ultimately that is what a proposal is - one person proposes the option of "hey lets stop talking about it and actually do it" and the other person considers the proposal and decides "yes lets" or "no lets not".

I always think its weird when I read in posts that if a couple is seriously discussing marriage 'they are already engaged' (usually followed by 'why do they need a ring' or 'a proposal isn't necessary'). Seriously discussing, and even know the plan is for it to happen someday, does not mean a couple is engaged - discussing a plan and implementing a plan are two separate stages of being.

[Tea Drinker]

Question though, is there a danger that 'discussing' marriage in a couple could be misinterpreted as a proposal? I've never been near the situation, so I wouldnt know. But it would suck to have your romantic proposal taken away.

I think there is a huge, huge, HUGE difference between discussing getting married and deciding to get married. I discussed marriage with every boyfriend i ever had [once I was] over 18 years old. With some the discussion was more serious then with others. But we didn't decide to get married until the last one (my now DH), and that came at the time of the proposal. because ultimately that is what a proposal is - one person proposes the option of "hey lets stop talking about it and actually do it" and the other person considers the proposal and decides "yes lets" or "no lets not".

I always think its weird when I read in posts that if a couple is seriously discussing marriage 'they are already engaged' (usually followed by 'why do they need a ring' or 'a proposal isn't necessary'). Seriously discussing, and even know the plan is for it to happen someday, does not mean a couple is engaged - discussing a plan and implementing a plan are two separate stages of being.

I would agree that if there hasn't been an explicit "let's get married" or "will you marry me?" from one and a yes from the other, the two people aren't engaged.

What seems weird to me is when Alice and Bob have had that discussion and agreed to get married, and have told other people that they are planning to marry each other, and then Alice (or Bob) says something like "we're still planning when/how he's going to propose to me," meaning "when we are going to do this particular shape of sentimental." If Alice and Bob have had that discussion and not told anyone, that's a gray area, and it's their relationship, not mine. If you are both telling people that you have agreed to get married, it seems odd to also be talking about the "proposal," so called, as an event that will happen at an indeterminate future date.

[TeamBhakta]

Question though, is there a danger that 'discussing' marriage in a couple could be misinterpreted as a proposal? I've never been near the situation, so I wouldnt know. But it would suck to have your romantic proposal taken away.

I think there is a huge, huge, HUGE difference between discussing getting married and deciding to get married. I discussed marriage with every boyfriend i ever had [once I was] over 18 years old. With some the discussion was more serious then with others. But we didn't decide to get married until the last one (my now DH), and that came at the time of the proposal. because ultimately that is what a proposal is - one person proposes the option of "hey lets stop talking about it and actually do it" and the other person considers the proposal and decides "yes lets" or "no lets not".

I always think its weird when I read in posts that if a couple is seriously discussing marriage 'they are already engaged' (usually followed by 'why do they need a ring' or 'a proposal isn't necessary'). Seriously discussing, and even know the plan is for it to happen someday, does not mean a couple is engaged - discussing a plan and implementing a plan are two separate stages of being.

I would agree that if there hasn't been an explicit "let's get married" or "will you marry me?" from one and a yes from the other, the two people aren't engaged.

What seems weird to me is when Alice and Bob have had that discussion and agreed to get married, and have told other people that they are planning to marry each other, and then Alice (or Bob) says something like "we're still planning when/how he's going to propose to me," meaning "when we are going to do this particular shape of sentimental." If Alice and Bob have had that discussion and not told anyone, that's a gray area, and it's their relationship, not mine. If you are both telling people that you have agreed to get married, it seems odd to also be talking about the "proposal," so called, as an event that will happen at an indeterminate future date.

My sister did that. She and her then boyfriend (now husband) used to randomly throw out "Oh, it's almost Christmas / other holiday. You never know, I might show up at Christmas dinner with a ring on my finger, tee hee." So at one point I entered a wedding contest and won a bridal emergency kit for her (aspirin, bobby pins, nail polish, etc). She told me "Um, thanks, but you ruined the surprise for bf and I. We aren't engaged yet."   

[SpikeMichigan]

  I always think its weird when I read in posts that if a couple is seriously discussing marriage 'they are already engaged' (usually followed by 'why do they need a ring' or 'a proposal isn't necessary'). Seriously discussing, and even know the plan is for it to happen someday, does not mean a couple is engaged - discussing a plan and implementing a plan are two separate stages of being.

   That's exactly what inspired my question! I encountered a few posts opining that a couple who have agreed that they will one day marry are already engaged and there is 'no need' for a proposal. The combination of 'every couple should discuss marriage seriously', with 'when they agree marriage is the next step, they are engaged' pretty much kills the very concept of the proposal event, which I think is a shame, because I think proposals have a certain charm to them, and are often a great story.

 Perhaps its my masculine pride rearing its head, but I would greatly resent being deprived of the chance to execute my (entirely hypothetical) ultimate romantic proposal.

[Mental Magpie]

  I always think its weird when I read in posts that if a couple is seriously discussing marriage 'they are already engaged' (usually followed by 'why do they need a ring' or 'a proposal isn't necessary'). Seriously discussing, and even know the plan is for it to happen someday, does not mean a couple is engaged - discussing a plan and implementing a plan are two separate stages of being.

   That's exactly what inspired my question! I encountered a few posts opining that a couple who have agreed that they will one day marry are already engaged and there is 'no need' for a proposal. The combination of 'every couple should discuss marriage seriously', with 'when they agree marriage is the next step, they are engaged' pretty much kills the very concept of the proposal event, which I think is a shame, because I think proposals have a certain charm to them, and are often a great story.

 Perhaps its my masculine pride rearing its head, but I would greatly resent being deprived of the chance to execute my (entirely hypothetical) ultimate romantic proposal.

Even if that is taken away by her proposing to you?

[SpikeMichigan]

Quote from: SpikeMichigan on Today at 06:22:46 AM
Quote
  I always think its weird when I read in posts that if a couple is seriously discussing marriage 'they are already engaged' (usually followed by 'why do they need a ring' or 'a proposal isn't necessary'). Seriously discussing, and even know the plan is for it to happen someday, does not mean a couple is engaged - discussing a plan and implementing a plan are two separate stages of being.

   That's exactly what inspired my question! I encountered a few posts opining that a couple who have agreed that they will one day marry are already engaged and there is 'no need' for a proposal. The combination of 'every couple should discuss marriage seriously', with 'when they agree marriage is the next step, they are engaged' pretty much kills the very concept of the proposal event, which I think is a shame, because I think proposals have a certain charm to them, and are often a great story.

 Perhaps its my masculine pride rearing its head, but I would greatly resent being deprived of the chance to execute my (entirely hypothetical) ultimate romantic proposal.

Even if that is taken away by her proposing to you? 

     Honestly, yes. I was discussing this with friends the other day. I would hate to be proposed to for that exact reason. Not necessarily that it 'must be the mans job' - if the girl proposing works for other couples, more power to them. But me personally? I can't say it wouldn't bother me. And I really can't articulate why. I just really would want to orchestrate the proposal. Hopefully, if (a big if) the situation seems remotely likely to be impending, the lady in question would know well in advance of my feelings.

 I really hope I'm not perceived as sexist. Or if I am, that people would understand that this is a one-off view I can't help.

[Twik]

SpikeMilligan - of course, everyone is entitled to their own preferences!

My own preference would be to avoid flowers, down-on-one-knee, all that stuff. I'd consider the perfect proposal to be something like, in the middle of moving furniture, have someone say, "What about getting married sometime?" To me, that would be incredibly romantic, but I'm sure a lot of people don't share the feeling.

[Lynn2000]

I would agree that if there hasn't been an explicit "let's get married" or "will you marry me?" from one and a yes from the other, the two people aren't engaged.

What seems weird to me is when Alice and Bob have had that discussion and agreed to get married, and have told other people that they are planning to marry each other, and then Alice (or Bob) says something like "we're still planning when/how he's going to propose to me," meaning "when we are going to do this particular shape of sentimental." If Alice and Bob have had that discussion and not told anyone, that's a gray area, and it's their relationship, not mine. If you are both telling people that you have agreed to get married, it seems odd to also be talking about the "proposal," so called, as an event that will happen at an indeterminate future date.

It seems weird to me, too. For example, a friend of mine and her BF had many serious discussions about marriage, agreed that marriage to each other was the next step in their relationship, began plotting out a timeline and other plans for the wedding, and went shopping together and purchased rings (and told me, and other people, about all of this). But, she did not consider that they were actually engaged to be married, because he had not yet made an official proposal in which he presented her with the ring and asked her to marry him, as part of a planned evening with dinner at a nice restaurant, etc.. And then after that happened they called everyone and announced that they were engaged. (And I have to admit I was like, "Oh, that's great. But I thought you already were? You asked me to be a bridesmaid the other day..."  )

Honestly, it doesn't matter to me either way, because it's not like her attitude is hurting anyone else. I just don't personally share it. I'm pretty low-key about some things and if I couldn't pinpoint the exact date and time that I "became engaged," because it happened at some point in between agreeing it was the next step and actually starting to make a wedding a reality, that would be fine with me. If the person I had agreed to marry started making noise about how we "weren't really engaged yet," I would be looking at them nervously and saying, "Wait a second, are we getting married or not? I thought we agreed? I've been writing out guest lists and looking up 'change of marital status' forms at work! Am I jumping the gun here?" And if they said they wanted to have a big proposal "moment" I have to admit I would think they were being kind of silly. But, that's probably unlikely to happen, just because if we were getting married, we would hopefully know each other better than that, and be on the same page about such things.

But like I said, it really doesn't affect anyone else (unless the couple is roping in unwilling third parties or something), so neither attitude is rude. But, to go back to the original subject of the thread, my opinion on this is why I personally don't find (other people's) public marriage proposals to be especially enjoyable to witness. I wouldn't ask any third party to not do one if they both wanted to, or rudely interrupt them somehow, but I would be one of the people quietly walking on by, not part of the crowd standing there watching and applauding.