Strange Encounter

[TootsNYC]

I totally agree that the woman in the situation should do what makes her feel safe and minimizes the drama ("don't engage the crazy") AND the impact on her, mentally and emotionally. (I'm the one who normally says, "the lessons from the NYC subways are, avoid instead of confronting.")

Remember also that I didn't suggest she "educate" him--there's no explanation, no "do you realize this is wrong?" sort of stuff. There's a simple statement--in fact, an *order*: "Leave me alone." That's not educating, and it's not necessarily engaging.

But I also think that as a culture, I think we could do with a little less "don't make scene" emphasis. And that we should include, as an option, the idea of saying, "Leave me alone" loudly enough for bystanders to hear. That THIS could be a form of protection as well, but people don't consider it an option. And bystanders don't always react appropriately; instead of stepping in to reiterate, "hey, buddy, she said to leave her alone," they give the person with the loud voice (the woman) a dirty look, or they avoid.

[ladyknight1]

If this ever occurs again, I will continue as I did this morning, with a no. If the person persists, then I will ignore and notify the staff.

I refused to participate in whatever the man was thinking or doing. Thanks for the support.

[TootsNYC]

I refused to participate in whatever the man was thinking or doing.

I don't think anyone suggested that you should. Did you think you should have?

[Firecat]

If this ever occurs again, I will continue as I did this morning, with a no. If the person persists, then I will ignore and notify the staff.

I refused to participate in whatever the man was thinking or doing. Thanks for the support.

You exited the situation safely, OP, and to me that means you handled it really well. Please don't take my (or anyone else's) consideration or discussion of other options to mean that you did anything wrong, because you didn't.

[Ladybugs]

I agree with others above who said to just ignore it, walk away, and that its not anything that has to do with the police, being weird isn't against the law, unless it crossed over into touching, threatening etc

[Bijou]

You know, I don't think we should keep telling women to "ignore" creepy guys.

because there's no negative reinforcement.

I think we should teach them to loudly say, "I'm not interested in conversing with you. Leave me alone."

Then maybe these guys will learn to shut up, or to feel less free to impose their foot fetishes on total strangers.


My college-age DD is very focused on "the rape culture" lately, and she's got me thinking. I think we should stop ignoring stuff.

It's OK to sort of make other people aware, and to make the entire room a little bit uncomfortable. But of course, the rest of us in the room need to get mad at the guy, and not at the woman who objected to his overtures.

It isn't her job to educate a complete stranger.

Toots isn't talking about educating a complete stranger.   You may have misunderstood.  She said teach our daughters to say, "I'm not interested in conversing with you. Leave me alone." At least that is how I read it.  She is talking about educating our daughters.  I agree with her.

[CaptainObvious]

You know, I don't think we should keep telling women to "ignore" creepy guys.

because there's no negative reinforcement.

I think we should teach them to loudly say, "I'm not interested in conversing with you. Leave me alone."

Then maybe these guys will learn to shut up, or to feel less free to impose their foot fetishes on total strangers.


My college-age DD is very focused on "the rape culture" lately, and she's got me thinking. I think we should stop ignoring stuff.

It's OK to sort of make other people aware, and to make the entire room a little bit uncomfortable. But of course, the rest of us in the room need to get mad at the guy, and not at the woman who objected to his overtures.

It isn't her job to educate a complete stranger.

Toots isn't talking about educating a complete stranger.   You may have misunderstood.  She said teach our daughters to say, "I'm not interested in conversing with you. Leave me alone." At least that is how I read it.  She is talking about educating our daughters.  I agree with her.

She said women in her opening line, I took it the same as Zilla. I don't believe anyone disagreed with her statement in general, just that it wouldn't work in this situation.

[oceanus]

OP – I have a question; I’m just curious about something. Not asking details, but are you in a warm climate where people are wearing sandals/flip-flops in January?  How did he see your feet? 

Often even saying something like “Please leave me alone, I’m not interested” encourages the person to continue.

Creep: “Are you going to make my coffee?”
Target: “No.”
Target: “Please leave me alone, I’m not interested.”
Creep: “Interested in what?”
Target: “In conversing with you.”
Creep: “ Am I bothering you?  Since when is complimenting someone against the law?”

Etc.

This is better:

Creep: “Are you going to make my coffee?”
Target: “No.”
Creep: “Why not?  By the way, you have nice feet.”
Target:  (ignore, say nothing else, walk away)

[TootsNYC]

OP – I have a question; I’m just curious about something. Not asking details, but are you in a warm climate where people are wearing sandals/flip-flops in January?  How did he see your feet? 

Often even saying something like “Please leave me alone, I’m not interested” encourages the person to continue.

Creep: “Are you going to make my coffee?”
Target: “No.”
Target: “Please leave me alone, I’m not interested in talking to you.”
Creep: “Interested in what?”
Target: [more loudly and more sternly, while walking away] I said leave me alone.“In conversing with you.”
Creep: “ Am I bothering you?  Since when is complimenting someone against the law?”

You have a fallacy or two there. See my edits.

[oceanus]

OP – I have a question; I’m just curious about something. Not asking details, but are you in a warm climate where people are wearing sandals/flip-flops in January?  How did he see your feet? 

Often even saying something like “Please leave me alone, I’m not interested” encourages the person to continue.

Creep: “Are you going to make my coffee?”
Target: “No.”
Target: “Please leave me alone, I’m not interested in talking to you.”
Creep: “Interested in what?”
Target: [more loudly and more sternly, while walking away] I said leave me alone.“In conversing with you.”
Creep: “ Am I bothering you?  Since when is complimenting someone against the law?”

You have a fallacy or two there. See my edits.

No, I don't have any "fallacies".  I stand by my post the way I wrote it, without your edits.  I was giving an example - I wasn't quoting you or anyone.

It's not necessary to respond at all, and it's certainly not necessary to keep responding, loudly or otherwise.  As I said, that often encourages the other person.  I can think of many incidences when I didn't bother to respond - it didn't mean I was intimidated (I wasn't).

[ladyknight1]

Today, I am wearing a black mid-calf length full skirt, a purple camisole, and a black lacy sweater with a pair of black Mary Jane wedges. Nothing crazy on my feet.

In Florida, we haven't dipped much below 80 for a high since Christmas Eve.

[oceanus]

OP - I see.  Thanks for answering. 

[TootsNYC]

The guy was a perv. It doesn't matter what you were wearing.

And "not responding" didn't make this guy go away either. If someone wants to pursue the inappropriate action, they will. This guy did--the OP wasn't wearing "provocative" shoes or anything--he was a foot fetishist with no boundaries.

It's quite possible that someone would feel better, would feel that they had stood up for themselves, if they said, "leave me alone," and THEN went on to ignore someone.

It depends on the person. And it should be in the repertoire.

And I wonder if our culture was less "oh, just ignore" and more "tell him to leave you alone," if pervs would feel less free to approach people. They  might not--they're perverts, after all, and this does something for them. That can be a pretty powerful motivator. But a wider culture of "people are unpleasant to you when you approach them like this" might deter some of the less determined people.

[oceanus]

The guy was a perv. (1) It doesn't matter what you were wearing.

(2) And "not responding" didn't make this guy go away either. If someone wants to pursue the inappropriate action, they will. This guy did--the OP wasn't wearing "provocative" shoes or anything--he was a foot fetishist with no boundaries.

It's quite possible that someone would feel better, would feel that they had stood up for themselves, if they said, "leave me alone," and THEN went on to ignore someone.

It depends on the person. And it should be in the repertoire.

And I wonder if our culture was less "oh, just ignore" and more "tell him to leave you alone," if pervs would feel less free to approach people. They  might not--they're perverts, after all, and this does something for them. That can be a pretty powerful motivator. But a wider culture of "people are unpleasant to you when you approach them like this" might deter some of the less determined people.

(1) I neither stated nor implied, in any way, that it "mattered" what OP was wearing, so please don't go there.  In my question (directed to OP) I made it clear that I was simply curious how he even saw her feet.   My question didn't upset her - the OP.  Again, the question was in regard to climate/weather.

(2) We don't know whether not responding would make him go away because she did respond.  There is no guarantee that making a loud fuss would make him go away either.

[Cat-Fu]

The self-defense training that I took (albeit nearly a dozen years ago!) encouraged a much more short "I don't know you. Go away." Honestly, saying much more is baiting the crazy person.