Author Topic: When they just won't go away...  (Read 13820 times)

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EMuir

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Re: When they just won't go away...
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2013, 04:25:23 PM »
Put in earbuds.  You don't actually need an iPod in order to look like you can't hear them.

JeseC

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Re: When they just won't go away...
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2013, 06:43:21 PM »
Exactly what lady_disdain said.  I think so often the responses on this board jump to being rude to strangers when often I think simle courtesy/we are all on this earth together attitude would diffuse the situation.

If they approach me politely, I respond politely. I don't scream at people who just want to know the time, or directions to a landmark, or if they want to tell me I have a pretty smile.  If they approach with a smile and an "excuse me" I will happily smile back. 

If they're opening line includes 1) bellowing something demeaning (baby girl for example, I'm in my late thirties, not a baby girl, certainly not your baby girl), a wolf whistle, or a "compliment (read: rude comment about a part of my body), then they get ignored.  If they get in my space they get a death glare and a "Back Off!".

Unfortunately I'm far more wary of even polite at this point, when it comes from young men.  On one hand, I don't want to be unnecessarily dismissive of someone who genuinely just wants to be polite (and comprehends what that means).  On the other hand, it...seems to encourage them, and tends to lead to situations that are even more difficult to extricate yourself from.  "What, now you don't want to talk to me?  What's your problem?  You think I'm ugly, huh?  Stuck-up ****!"

It's kind of disappointing because I actually enjoy random interactions.  I've just learned to be very cautious, because almost any indication of friendliness towards these cretins seems to be taken as proof positive that you're dying for their attention.  I've had even so much as making eye contact be taken as an invitation to hit on me.  Gotta love frat boys...

Ah, the joys of the Clueless Cretin!  I usually give them a polite "No thanks" or "Sorry, I'm busy" at first.  If they get persistent I get more specific with either "I've said no once and the answer is still no" or "I'm married".

When I was in high school I was once at a bus stop waiting for my bus home when I man came up to me and started chatting.  I tried telliing him I was reading (which I was; the open book should have been a clue) but he kept asking me to "Just go for one drink with me".

I closed the book and said "That would get you in a lot of trouble since I'm only 15".  That he understood.

Yeah - I actually look about 5 years younger than my age, so many of them don't realize how much like children they look to me!  Most of them are students either at the college I work for or at the nearby college.

Incidentally, my personal favorite was a guy who'd been hitting on me.  I let slip that I was g@y.  His response:  "Really?  Me too!  We should get together!"   ???

Put in earbuds.  You don't actually need an iPod in order to look like you can't hear them.

Sometimes this works.  More often it leads to physical space violations.  Persistent lot - I have my set of ipod, kindle, and papers and pen all out and they still try.

RooRoo

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Re: When they just won't go away...
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2013, 10:41:22 PM »
TurtleDove said, “…I don't find either threatening in any way, and while the second might be offensive to some…”

JeseC said, “…because almost any indication of friendliness towards these cretins seems to be taken as proof positive that you're dying for their attention.”

It’s more about how they say things. That’s what I was getting at earlier. I've had a guy say “Hello” in a way that made me want to damage his scrabble tiles; and I've had a guy say, “Wanna go home and (play scrabble) for a while?” and I took it as the compliment it was.

The first one – my reaction was completely instinctive. No, I didn't hurt him; I was in a place where I was well known (thus safe) and he wasn't. He left soon.

The second one – well, it was a “biker bar,” in the middle of a game of pool. It was a compliment, and when I said “No” and thanked him sincerely, that was the end of it. But not of the pool game.  ;D
"Someday we must write a book of Etiquette for sensible people," said Mrs. Morland, "though apart from a few rules it really boils down to an educated mind and a kind heart." ~ Angela Thirkell, Never Too Late

Jocelyn

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Re: When they just won't go away...
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2013, 07:03:39 PM »
Something to consider- a cheery response to unsolicited attention only reinforces the idea that women should feel complimented at being selected for sexual advances. This just keeps the advances coming. Some of these men need a clue about how it's not necessarily a compliment to have someone say, 'Hey, you look like the sort of woman who'd go home with random strangers and play scrabble' in lieu of saying 'Nice weather we're having.'

JeseC

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Re: When they just won't go away...
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2013, 08:53:01 PM »
Something to consider- a cheery response to unsolicited attention only reinforces the idea that women should feel complimented at being selected for sexual advances. This just keeps the advances coming. Some of these men need a clue about how it's not necessarily a compliment to have someone say, 'Hey, you look like the sort of woman who'd go home with random strangers and play scrabble' in lieu of saying 'Nice weather we're having.'

Given the relative youth of many of the offenders, I'm sort of hoping a shocked or annoyed response might get them to rethink their approach.  Doubtful, but one does hope...

Pen^2

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Re: When they just won't go away...
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2013, 09:52:52 AM »
Something to consider- a cheery response to unsolicited attention only reinforces the idea that women should feel complimented at being selected for sexual advances. This just keeps the advances coming. Some of these men need a clue about how it's not necessarily a compliment to have someone say, 'Hey, you look like the sort of woman who'd go home with random strangers and play scrabble' in lieu of saying 'Nice weather we're having.'
This entirely. It can be done in a complimentary way, of course, but saying to a complete stranger anything which is essentially, "hey, I like how you look, so let's go bump uglies" is not a compliment. This doesn't require further explanation; it should be painfully obvious.

I travel several hours every day, to and from work on the train. On the way back, especially in the Winter when it's dark, I can't ever fully relax or immerse myself fully into a book. I choose seats which are easy to run from and in which I can't be blocked if someone sits in the aisle next to me. And there are certain people to whom any response is an encouragement, like a small child who serially misbehaves because the subsequent negative attention is still a form of the attention they want, even if it's not ideal. If any stranger approaches me on the train while I am obviously busy with a book or somesuch, it limits their possible intentions to only a few things, which puts me on guard. It is difficult to deal with such people, and usually by how they approach you, you can tell which people aren't going to listen to what you say and will start harassing you. The trains are dangerous at night, and although the police patrol them frequently, it sometimes isn't frequent enough.

I have three tactics: the first is to nod and, without smiling or looking inviting at all, say 'uh-huh' vaguely as I half raise my eyes to them before going back to my book. This is all done in a distracted and smooth motion, not jerkily or nervously. This is enough to tell most decent people that I'm busy (as I obviously was before they interrupted me) and am not interested in a conversation. Anything else they say is met with smaller and smaller versions of the same response.

The second tactic is with my phone--I'll slide my hand into my pocket as discreetly as I can, and press the right buttons to make it sound like it's ringing (I've memorised the right buttons to set off a function I installed without having to look at what I'm doing). I then answer it and have a mock conversation about how I'll be getting off soon and I'll see Bruno and all his burly weight-lifting and kick-boxing friends who are waiting there to meet me. Sometimes, if the person keeps trying to interrupt me, I'll actually get off at the next stop (they never follow), but get on again in the next carriage or just catch the next train.

The first and second tactics get rid of almost everyone (~99%). Anyone remaining at this point is very determined and clearly does not care about what I want. So, the third tactic is to make myself unappealing. I start doing anything gross. I really mean gross. Most creeps will stop seeing you as whatever unsavoury thing they've been thinking of when you start picking your nose, or clearing your sinuses, or cleaning your ears and examining the results... You get the picture. Turns most people away very quickly.

Only once, out of many many incidents, has anyone persisted past this point. I literally ran to the conductor (the nearest staff) two carriages away, and based on the things the guy was shouting as I sprinted, I'm glad I escaped when I did.

Where I live, police don't always answer when you call. So I need to resort to these things in order to get to work. If it's better where you are, either just call them, or if it hasn't escalated into anything and you're just apprehensive at whatever point, call a friend (pre-arranged) and pretend it's the police. The friend can call the real police if they hear things actually start to get nasty. But don't underestimate the potential danger such people pose. Someone who honestly thinks a woman should be complimented when she is told that which was mentioned above isn't thinking from her point of view, and is more likely than most other people to therefore lack the empathy needed to not do things which make the situation unsafe for her.

Waterlight

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Re: When they just won't go away...
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2013, 09:21:21 PM »
Something to consider- a cheery response to unsolicited attention only reinforces the idea that women should feel complimented at being selected for sexual advances. This just keeps the advances coming. Some of these men need a clue about how it's not necessarily a compliment to have someone say, 'Hey, you look like the sort of woman who'd go home with random strangers and play scrabble' in lieu of saying 'Nice weather we're having.'
This entirely. It can be done in a complimentary way, of course, but saying to a complete stranger anything which is essentially, "hey, I like how you look, so let's go bump uglies" is not a compliment. This doesn't require further explanation; it should be painfully obvious.

I was waiting at a bus stop recently after going grocery shopping and was approached by a guy who said essentially this.  Well, what he actually said was, he wasn't interested in the bags I was carrying, he wanted me.

It's for reasons like this that I wear an engagement/wedding ring on my left hand, even though I'm not married. 

Anyway, I held up my left hand and said, "Sorry, guess you didn't see the ring."

This guy would not be deterred, even by a silver band with a good-sized sapphire.  He said, "How about a side f***?"   :o

My response:  "NO WAY!"   Said in my best designed-to-project-to-the-back-of-an-auditorium theatre voice.

Quote
I have three tactics: the first is to nod and, without smiling or looking inviting at all, say 'uh-huh' vaguely as I half raise my eyes to them before going back to my book. This is all done in a distracted and smooth motion, not jerkily or nervously. This is enough to tell most decent people that I'm busy (as I obviously was before they interrupted me) and am not interested in a conversation. Anything else they say is met with smaller and smaller versions of the same response.

This is pretty much what I do, most of the time.  The way I see it, anything more than that would just encourage them.
“The best lightning rod for your protection is your own spine.”--Ralph Waldo Emerson

JeseC

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Re: When they just won't go away...
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2013, 11:03:16 AM »
Maybe it's just me, but...the way I was raised, asking a random woman if she wanted to go play scrabble was just considered offensive.  I know not everyone shares all of my views about scrabble, but I still think that asking a woman whose name you don't even know and who you haven't otherwise spoken with at least a little just makes you rude.  You really think I'm so desperate I'd say yes to a guy who I just saw 2min ago and who's never spoken to me before?

VorFemme

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Re: When they just won't go away...
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2013, 01:27:37 PM »
Something to consider- a cheery response to unsolicited attention only reinforces the idea that women should feel complimented at being selected for sexual advances. This just keeps the advances coming. Some of these men need a clue about how it's not necessarily a compliment to have someone say, 'Hey, you look like the sort of woman who'd go home with random strangers and play scrabble' in lieu of saying 'Nice weather we're having.'
This entirely. It can be done in a complimentary way, of course, but saying to a complete stranger anything which is essentially, "hey, I like how you look, so let's go bump uglies" is not a compliment. This doesn't require further explanation; it should be painfully obvious.

I was waiting at a bus stop recently after going grocery shopping and was approached by a guy who said essentially this.  Well, what he actually said was, he wasn't interested in the bags I was carrying, he wanted me.

It's for reasons like this that I wear an engagement/wedding ring on my left hand, even though I'm not married. 

Anyway, I held up my left hand and said, "Sorry, guess you didn't see the ring."

This guy would not be deterred, even by a silver band with a good-sized sapphire.  He said, "How about a side f***?"   :o

My response:  "NO WAY!"   Said in my best designed-to-project-to-the-back-of-an-auditorium theatre voice.

Quote
I have three tactics: the first is to nod and, without smiling or looking inviting at all, say 'uh-huh' vaguely as I half raise my eyes to them before going back to my book. This is all done in a distracted and smooth motion, not jerkily or nervously. This is enough to tell most decent people that I'm busy (as I obviously was before they interrupted me) and am not interested in a conversation. Anything else they say is met with smaller and smaller versions of the same response.

This is pretty much what I do, most of the time.  The way I see it, anything more than that would just encourage them.

I have heard that some guys will leave, quickly, if you "warn them" that the sex change surgery hasn't been completed yet.

If they don't leave, I suppose you could say that you're still healing from the surgery......  Because getting rid of "that kind of guy" without pulling out a shotgun and "suggesting" that they leave you alone right NOW would give most people the idea that there is no such thing as a lie that isn't acceptable, if that ***** would just leave!

Let sleeping dragons be.......morning breath......need I say more?

dawbs

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Re: When they just won't go away...
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2013, 02:24:45 PM »


I have heard that some guys will leave, quickly, if you "warn them" that the sex change surgery hasn't been completed yet.

If they don't leave, I suppose you could say that you're still healing from the surgery......  Because getting rid of "that kind of guy" without pulling out a shotgun and "suggesting" that they leave you alone right NOW would give most people the idea that there is no such thing as a lie that isn't acceptable, if that ***** would just leave!

If there's *ANY* chance that there isn't sufficient backup, I would highly recommend avoiding this tactic.

The incidence where the prejudice against these subgroups have lead to sexual assault and/or violence is way higher than people realize.  A 'macho' person who looses face may seek to regain it by lashing out physically.

Twik

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Re: When they just won't go away...
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2013, 03:10:29 PM »
Maybe it's just me, but...the way I was raised, asking a random woman if she wanted to go play scrabble was just considered offensive.  I know not everyone shares all of my views about scrabble, but I still think that asking a woman whose name you don't even know and who you haven't otherwise spoken with at least a little just makes you rude.  You really think I'm so desperate I'd say yes to a guy who I just saw 2min ago and who's never spoken to me before?

I agree. It's not a compliment ("Hey, you're really attractive!"), it's a dominance thing ("I'd deign to play scrabble with you - bet that makes you excited, huh?")
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gingerzing

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Re: When they just won't go away...
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2013, 03:13:29 PM »
Sadly, the wedding band thing doesn't deter - as mentioned above. 

What I have never had the nerve to do, but really have wanted to, is to look them dead in the eye and say "Seriously, has that EVER actually worked on a random stranger? Because I am saying doubtful." 


Oddly, I have only had two real bad encounters.  One was when I use to ride the bus to work.  The guy ignored that I was reading, I basically had to finally tell him to "shoo.  go away.  I am busy" Next step would have been to talk to the bus driver.
The second was on a plane. And wasn't technically a pickup. At the end of a very long three-day trade show, was flying home and still had my company shirt on.  (Flight was about 1/4 people from my company though I wasn't sitting near anyone from my company.)    This guy saw that I was from Company. He was across the aisle and one row back.
Him- (taps me on the shoulder)"Hey, You're from Company. Do you know <my VP's name>?" 
Me-Yes, he is my boss. 
Him-"Hey, VP is a great guy.  We should talk about him." 
Me-No thanks (I turn around)
Him- (Continues)  "Hey, you need to talk to me."
Me -No, I don't.  And please leave me alone.
Him- (leaning forward talking) "It will be fun to talk about VP"
Me- No, I want you to leave me alone.  (At this I look to the guys that are apparently with this bozo.)
Him- (Here I don't know remember what he said, but he touched my arm to get my attention.)
Me- (whipping around) Listen, I am hot, and exhausted, and tired of talking to people.  You need to LEAVE ME <naughty word sorry> ALONE NOW.   
*To my defense - I gave him three polite responses before I snapped.*

His buddies pulled him back and got him distracted.  Apparently, the flight attendant was also annoyed with him on my behalf because she was coming from the back to diffuse the situation.  Pretty sure he was fairly drunk (could have flew the plane home with the fumes.)  But sometimes you have to speak loudly and clearly to get your point across. 


Moray

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Re: When they just won't go away...
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2013, 03:29:52 PM »


I have heard that some guys will leave, quickly, if you "warn them" that the sex change surgery hasn't been completed yet.

If they don't leave, I suppose you could say that you're still healing from the surgery......  Because getting rid of "that kind of guy" without pulling out a shotgun and "suggesting" that they leave you alone right NOW would give most people the idea that there is no such thing as a lie that isn't acceptable, if that ***** would just leave!

If there's *ANY* chance that there isn't sufficient backup, I would highly recommend avoiding this tactic.

The incidence where the prejudice against these subgroups have lead to sexual assault and/or violence is way higher than people realize.  A 'macho' person who looses face may seek to regain it by lashing out physically.

Wow, Vorfemme. Don't do that. Or encourage that. Ever. Please.

A. It implies that there's somehow something wrong with being trans, which is mighty rude.
B. You may end up intriguing instead of repulsing them; discussing ones genitals with random strangers breeds familiarity.
C. This is the super important one: The incidence of violence against those in the trans community, or who are even suspected of being trans, is frighteningly high. We're not just talking sexual violence here. We're talking murder.
Utah

JeseC

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Re: When they just won't go away...
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2013, 06:02:06 PM »
I have heard that some guys will leave, quickly, if you "warn them" that the sex change surgery hasn't been completed yet.

If they don't leave, I suppose you could say that you're still healing from the surgery......  Because getting rid of "that kind of guy" without pulling out a shotgun and "suggesting" that they leave you alone right NOW would give most people the idea that there is no such thing as a lie that isn't acceptable, if that ***** would just leave!

For the sake of a very pretty and very dear to me young lady who has not had the opportunity to have surgery yet, please don't do this.

Waterlight

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Re: When they just won't go away...
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2013, 05:09:34 PM »
Sadly, the wedding band thing doesn't deter - as mentioned above.

I have found it's a deterrent to a lot of guys with at least a shred of decency.  At least it puts the guys without it out where I can see them.  The ring looks like this, BTW:



Quote
The second was on a plane. And wasn't technically a pickup. At the end of a very long three-day trade show, was flying home and still had my company shirt on.  (Flight was about 1/4 people from my company though I wasn't sitting near anyone from my company.)    This guy saw that I was from Company. He was across the aisle and one row back.
Him- (taps me on the shoulder)"Hey, You're from Company. Do you know <my VP's name>?" 
Me-Yes, he is my boss. 
Him-"Hey, VP is a great guy.  We should talk about him." 
Me-No thanks (I turn around)
Him- (Continues)  "Hey, you need to talk to me."
Me -No, I don't.  And please leave me alone.
Him- (leaning forward talking) "It will be fun to talk about VP"
Me- No, I want you to leave me alone.  (At this I look to the guys that are apparently with this bozo.)
Him- (Here I don't know remember what he said, but he touched my arm to get my attention.)
Me- (whipping around) Listen, I am hot, and exhausted, and tired of talking to people.  You need to LEAVE ME <naughty word sorry> ALONE NOW.   
*To my defense - I gave him three polite responses before I snapped.*

His buddies pulled him back and got him distracted.  Apparently, the flight attendant was also annoyed with him on my behalf because she was coming from the back to diffuse the situation.  Pretty sure he was fairly drunk (could have flew the plane home with the fumes.)  But sometimes you have to speak loudly and clearly to get your point across.

I for one am not going to cast you into the depths of E-Hell for reacting the way you did.  Safety trumps etiquette--and a guy who won't take no for an answer obviously doesn't care about safety OR etiquette.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 05:16:57 PM by Waterlight »
“The best lightning rod for your protection is your own spine.”--Ralph Waldo Emerson