Author Topic: Shared Room and Snoring  (Read 10292 times)

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Victim Of Fate

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Re: Shared Room and Snoring
« Reply #60 on: January 17, 2013, 07:13:24 AM »

I definitely agree that the person who snores shouldn't have to pay for any part of the additional room rental.  However, I don't agree that the person who does NOT snore should have to pay for part of Snorer's room as well as the new room.  It's not his/her fault the other person snores.  And I know, the person who snores didn't choose to be a snorer, but that doesn't mean they don't have to accept the consequences of it.  If you snore so bad you drive away your roommate, sorry, but you get to cover the cost of the room yourself.  It's a bummer, but why should the other person have to incur double the cost?

Because it's that person's choice to move room. I'm sorry, but if you are going to renege on a previously made agreement, then it's up to you to cover the cost. If the snorer is willing to pay for the first room in it's entirety, then that's a bonus, but I don't think that they should be expected to, and I think it's rude to ask.

Isisnin

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Re: Shared Room and Snoring
« Reply #61 on: January 17, 2013, 08:55:46 AM »
What if it wasn't snoring, but someone wanting the TV on all night as opposed to someone who needs complete silence to sleep.  Or someone who is an early riser as opposed to someone to has a hard time getting up in the morning.

Just because you(general) decide you can't deal with a quirk of the person you are sharing a room with doesn't mean that that person has to foot the bill because you decide you need a new room. If you don't do anything to manage the problem like talk to the person with the quirk to see if you can work around it and just decide to get a new room, then that is a decision you have made on your own.  Why should the other person help foot the bill if you aren't willing to work with them.  And how fair is it to the other person to suddenly have to pay for a room on their own, when they thought they were splitting the cost evenly?

Because it's that person's choice to move room. I'm sorry, but if you are going to renege on a previously made agreement, then it's up to you to cover the cost. If the snorer is willing to pay for the first room in it's entirety, then that's a bonus, but I don't think that they should be expected to, and I think it's rude to ask.

These. 

Cami

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Re: Shared Room and Snoring
« Reply #62 on: January 17, 2013, 09:01:44 AM »

I definitely agree that the person who snores shouldn't have to pay for any part of the additional room rental.  However, I don't agree that the person who does NOT snore should have to pay for part of Snorer's room as well as the new room.  It's not his/her fault the other person snores.  And I know, the person who snores didn't choose to be a snorer, but that doesn't mean they don't have to accept the consequences of it.  If you snore so bad you drive away your roommate, sorry, but you get to cover the cost of the room yourself.  It's a bummer, but why should the other person have to incur double the cost?

Because it's that person's choice to move room. I'm sorry, but if you are going to renege on a previously made agreement, then it's up to you to cover the cost. If the snorer is willing to pay for the first room in it's entirety, then that's a bonus, but I don't think that they should be expected to, and I think it's rude to ask.
I don't think it's a choice to move rooms in order to sleep. Having been the person kept awake by a snorer for several nights, I can say that sleep is necessary and finding a way to get it is a necessity, not a choice.

Also in the case of hotel roommates, the snorer is effectively breaking the contract of room use. If I agree to share a room with you, then part of the agreement is that I will be able to sleep in that room. If you do something -- voluntarily or not -- that prevents me from sleeping in that room, the value of that room is now zero to me and I will not pay for zero value. I wouldn't ask you to pay for my room, but I'm sure not going to pay for a room I cannot use. Nor, frankly, do I feel the onus is on me to spend time and money to find ways to ameliorate a problem you've caused by searching and paying for and trying to learn to sleep in ear plugs or a white noise machine, etc.  Especially as none of that may work and I'll still be sleepless and have paid even more for the privilege of being sleepless.

And snoring is not a quirk.

Surianne

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Re: Shared Room and Snoring
« Reply #63 on: January 17, 2013, 09:29:42 AM »

I definitely agree that the person who snores shouldn't have to pay for any part of the additional room rental.  However, I don't agree that the person who does NOT snore should have to pay for part of Snorer's room as well as the new room.  It's not his/her fault the other person snores.  And I know, the person who snores didn't choose to be a snorer, but that doesn't mean they don't have to accept the consequences of it.  If you snore so bad you drive away your roommate, sorry, but you get to cover the cost of the room yourself.  It's a bummer, but why should the other person have to incur double the cost?

Because it's that person's choice to move room. I'm sorry, but if you are going to renege on a previously made agreement, then it's up to you to cover the cost. If the snorer is willing to pay for the first room in it's entirety, then that's a bonus, but I don't think that they should be expected to, and I think it's rude to ask.

I agree.  Unless the non-snorer is upfront when agreeing to share rooms that they absolutely cannot sleep with any snoring, and won't try earplugs or headphones, then I don't think the snorer should be asked to pay any additional costs here.

I'm a very, very light sleeper.  Hotels are not always quiet places, so I make sure I have a way to deal with that -- headphones, in my case, rather than earplugs.  The light sleeper could have come prepared for unexpected noises, but didn't. 

Margo

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Re: Shared Room and Snoring
« Reply #64 on: January 17, 2013, 09:49:41 AM »
<snip >


Also in the case of hotel roommates, the snorer is effectively breaking the contract of room use. If I agree to share a room with you, then part of the agreement is that I will be able to sleep in that room. If you do something -- voluntarily or not -- that prevents me from sleeping in that room, the value of that room is now zero to me and I will not pay for zero value. I wouldn't ask you to pay for my room, but I'm sure not going to pay for a room I cannot use. Nor, frankly, do I feel the onus is on me to spend time and money to find ways to ameliorate a problem you've caused by searching and paying for and trying to learn to sleep in ear plugs or a white noise machine, etc.  Especially as none of that may work and I'll still be sleepless and have paid even more for the privilege of being sleepless.

And snoring is not a quirk.

I don't agree with this, especially the bolded. I think that would only be true if you are talking about a person doing something voluntarily.

You could equally well argue that the problem is caused, not by one room mate snoring but by the other being being a light sleeper. Neither is voluntary, neither is done by choice, and the individuals concerned may not necessarily know in advance.

If you (generic you) agree to share a room and split the costs, you agree to share the room and split the costs. You don't get to change that agreement in ways which cost the other person money unless they are *deliberately* breaking their side of the bargain.

If you know of characteristics of yours that may impact on that they it's your responsibility to tell the roommate and also to take reasonable steps to address the problems. But my light sleeping / difficulty with earplugs is just as much the 'cause' of the problem as your snoring (or vice versa,) so it's just as much my responsibility to tell you that I'm a very light sleeper and ask whether you are (to your knowledge) a snorer or otherwise noisy.

 
I think B was out of line. If B wanted to move to a new room, that is his/her choice. But s/he  was still responsible for keeping to his/her part of the original agreement, and paying for 50% of the original room.

And B should certainly not be asking A to pay anything towards B's new room.

TootsNYC

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Re: Shared Room and Snoring
« Reply #65 on: January 17, 2013, 10:26:33 AM »
What if it wasn't snoring, but someone wanting the TV on all night as opposed to someone who needs complete silence to sleep.  Or someone who is an early riser as opposed to someone to has a hard time getting up in the morning.

Just because you(general) decide you can't deal with a quirk of the person you are sharing a room with doesn't mean that that person has to foot the bill because you decide you need a new room.  If you don't do anything to manage the problem like talk to the person with the quirk to see if you can work around it and just decide to get a new room, then that is a decision you have made on your own.  Why should the other person help foot the bill if you aren't willing to work with them.  And how fair is it to the other person to suddenly have to pay for a room on their own, when they thought they were splitting the cost evenly?

complete and total straw man--not related at all.


DottyG

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Re: Shared Room and Snoring
« Reply #66 on: January 17, 2013, 12:11:17 PM »
I'm going to combine some posts from above.

Victim of Fate:
Quote
Because it's that person's choice to move room. I'm sorry, but if you are going to renege on a previously made agreement, then it's up to you to cover the cost. If the snorer is willing to pay for the first room in it's entirety, then that's a bonus, but I don't think that they should be expected to, and I think it's rude to ask.

Surianne
Quote
Hotels are not always quiet places, so I make sure I have a way to deal with that -- headphones, in my case, rather than earplugs.  The light sleeper could have come prepared for unexpected noises, but didn't.

Margo
Quote
But my light sleeping / difficulty with earplugs is just as much the 'cause' of the problem as your snoring (or vice versa,) so it's just as much my responsibility to tell you that I'm a very light sleeper and ask whether you are (to your knowledge) a snorer or otherwise noisy.

All three are perfectly stated.  I agree with them completely.

Hotels are noisy - whether you're in a room with a person who snores or not.  There are people next door, possible kids running down the hall, tvs, people above you,.....  If you're a light sleeper, it would seem to me that you'd already be prepared for noise, because it's going to be there even if you're alone in the room.

I don't see the problem here as being only with the person who's snoring.  I think both people have a responsibility to uphold the contract they agreed upon.  And that includes B.  If B wants to break the contract, that's fine.  But that's not A's responsibility to foot the result of that decision.


sparksals

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Re: Shared Room and Snoring
« Reply #67 on: January 17, 2013, 05:41:01 PM »
So, somebody's snoring is keeping me from sleeping.  I am supposed to wake them up and discuss what to do about it in the middle of the night?!?  Or I am supposed to suck it up and be up all night until I can buy earplugs?  It is all on me, as the unwilling and sleepless audience?
My Flabber is Ghasted (thanks for coining that!).
Per the Prof, I do not normally snore.  I do not share rooms with anyone but him, normally, either, but got into a Rosemary and Thyme situation where I had to share a room with someone else.  It was full of allergens and I snored.  I was mortified!  She woke me, I rolled over and bought decongestants the next day, so all was OK, but had she gone for another room, I would have gladly coughed up half the cost of the rooms.  Unfortunately, there were no more rooms -- I did check the next day -- but I wouldn't have been upset at all -- just apologetic that I had caused her such discomfort.  The snorer certainly bears some responsibility for being a good roommate.

That is my line of thinking too.  I don't know why responsibility to fix this falls on the non-snorer, the one whose sleep is disturbed. 

onyonryngs

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Re: Shared Room and Snoring
« Reply #68 on: January 17, 2013, 05:46:06 PM »
So, somebody's snoring is keeping me from sleeping.  I am supposed to wake them up and discuss what to do about it in the middle of the night?!?  Or I am supposed to suck it up and be up all night until I can buy earplugs?  It is all on me, as the unwilling and sleepless audience?
My Flabber is Ghasted (thanks for coining that!).
Per the Prof, I do not normally snore.  I do not share rooms with anyone but him, normally, either, but got into a Rosemary and Thyme situation where I had to share a room with someone else.  It was full of allergens and I snored.  I was mortified!  She woke me, I rolled over and bought decongestants the next day, so all was OK, but had she gone for another room, I would have gladly coughed up half the cost of the rooms.  Unfortunately, there were no more rooms -- I did check the next day -- but I wouldn't have been upset at all -- just apologetic that I had caused her such discomfort.  The snorer certainly bears some responsibility for being a good roommate.

That is my line of thinking too.  I don't know why responsibility to fix this falls on the non-snorer, the one whose sleep is disturbed.

Some people snore for medical reasons.  If you can't sleep, wake them up and see if they can switch to sleeping on their side, but they're not required to buy you a new room.   It would be nice if they bought you earplugs, but they're not expensive and it's always a good idea to have them ready when you're planning on sleeping with someone you don't know well.

CluelessBride

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Re: Shared Room and Snoring
« Reply #69 on: January 17, 2013, 06:35:21 PM »
So, somebody's snoring is keeping me from sleeping.  I am supposed to wake them up and discuss what to do about it in the middle of the night?!?  Or I am supposed to suck it up and be up all night until I can buy earplugs?  It is all on me, as the unwilling and sleepless audience?
My Flabber is Ghasted (thanks for coining that!).
Per the Prof, I do not normally snore.  I do not share rooms with anyone but him, normally, either, but got into a Rosemary and Thyme situation where I had to share a room with someone else.  It was full of allergens and I snored.  I was mortified!  She woke me, I rolled over and bought decongestants the next day, so all was OK, but had she gone for another room, I would have gladly coughed up half the cost of the rooms.  Unfortunately, there were no more rooms -- I did check the next day -- but I wouldn't have been upset at all -- just apologetic that I had caused her such discomfort.  The snorer certainly bears some responsibility for being a good roommate.

That is my line of thinking too.  I don't know why responsibility to fix this falls on the non-snorer, the one whose sleep is disturbed.

Well for one, in the particular case of the OP the non-snorer waited 2 nights before getting a room without consulting the snorer. There was ample opportunity to bring it up during waking hours to find a not expensive solution. If you have agreed to pay half for a room, you need to uphold that unless the other person agrees to let you off the hook. I'd feel the same if someone backed out of a shared room situation the day of because they were sick. So in this case I definitely think B is in the wrong. Although if A is financially able I think it would be nice to offer to pay for the entirety of the original room. But if it is a financial hardship I don't think they are required to.

Otherwise, I mean, who decides whether the snoring (or other night time noise or quirk that makes it impossible for the other roommate to sleep)  is loud enough to require the snorer to pay extra vs. the light sleeper to pay extra. A couple 40 decibel snores once an hour the light sleeper pays but constant 100 decibel snoring requires the snorer to pay? What if the person doesn't snore, but the light sleeper discovers they are bothered by the breathing of the other person? My feeling is that if you (general) decide on your own to book a new separate room for any reason, that cost is on you.

It's not that the snorer can't be expected to make modifications or sacrifices. It's that a) they can't be expected to make them unless they are alerted to a problem and b) they should be reasonable expectations like buying decongestant, not having to eat ramen for a month to afford the additional several hundred dollars of hotel rooms someone booked without first consulting them.


DottyG

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Re: Shared Room and Snoring
« Reply #70 on: January 17, 2013, 06:37:45 PM »
Quote
I don't know why responsibility to fix this falls on the non-snorer, the one whose sleep is disturbed.

But, by the same token, why does none of the responsibility fall on the non-snorer - who has options (as has been noted in this thread) and has now jumped to the most extreme of those options before trying anything else?

I think there is some responsibility in making sure you have what you need in order to get some sleep.  If you know you're a light sleeper and you forgot your earplugs, that's not someone else's fault.
 
CluelessBride posted at the same time I was, but she makes an excellent point that I thought I'd reiterate:
 
Quote
It's not that the snorer can't be expected to make modifications or sacrifices. It's that a) they can't be expected to make them unless they are alerted to a problem and b) they should be reasonable expectations like buying decongestant, not having to eat ramen for a month to afford the additional several hundred dollars of hotel rooms someone booked without first consulting them.

I don't think (unless I'm missing it) anyone's saying that the snorer doesn't have some responsibility to try to do what they can to alleviate whatever snoring is possible to alleviate.  If a decongestant would solve the problem, great.  (Understand that I'm saying that they do what they can; it may not be possible to completely eliminate the snoring - unfortunately, it's really not that simple.  I'm sure there are many, upon many, people who wish it were.)  But, likewise, the non-snorer has options that he/she can take as well.  And those options include some that don't require getting another room before the lesser choices.
 
And, at the very least, the non-snorer can alert the snorer that they are snoring.  A snorer can't do whatever they can do without knowing there's a problem to begin with.  An uncomfortable discussion to have with someone?  Of course.  But, exactly how is "I'm going to overreact and get another room because you've kept me awake for 3 nights even though I haven't told you about it until now and by the way I want you to pay for part of it!" an easier conversation than saying (after the first night), "Hey, Jane.  I'm an incredibly light sleeper - in fact, it's a joke in my family that I can wake up at a pin dropping in the next room!  I'm not sure if you realize it, but you snore a bit.  I was wondering if maybe the air here is a little dry and if you might need to take a decongestant.  I know that part of it's my responsibilty, too, so I'm going to try some earplugs"?
 

 

 
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 06:55:12 PM by DottyG »

sparksals

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Re: Shared Room and Snoring
« Reply #71 on: January 18, 2013, 01:12:01 PM »
I stated earlier that I believe B was wrong to unilaterally get a new room expecting A to pay. 

lmyrs

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Re: Shared Room and Snoring
« Reply #72 on: January 18, 2013, 04:07:44 PM »
I find it interesting that so many people in this thread have called the one friend a "likght sleeper". I don't think one has to be a light sleeper to not be able to sleep through loud (as per the OP) snoring. I am a quite heavy sleeper. I never wake up during thunder storms and I can sleep in hotels no problem. Even in the room right next to the elevator. I sleep through the TV being on, while on airplanes, you name it. And yet, this Xmas, I could not sleep through the sound of my FIL's snoring in the next room with both doors closed. This was in their house, not a hotel. If I had been sharing a hotel room with him, there's no way I could have stayed there.

Now, I think that the person still has an obligation to try ear plugs, etc. But the snorer has to try too. For example, they should go buy nose strips. They should take a decongestant. Or anything else. But they need to know to go do that. In the event that the snoring is unbearable, then it's in everyone's best interest to pay for their own rooms, regardless of what the original plan was.

And the snorer needs to keep this in mind and begin taking actions to avoid this in the future. Including warning potential roommates. And everyone needs to start packing earplugs.

Again, there's plenty that the non-sleeper should have done differently. And should have. But don't just dismiss him as a "light sleeper" and therefore solely responsible.

DottyG

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Re: Shared Room and Snoring
« Reply #73 on: January 18, 2013, 04:34:24 PM »
Quote
But don't just dismiss him as a "light sleeper" and therefore solely responsible.

Which is what I said in the last 2 paragraphs of my post above.  "Light sleeper" or not, the non-snorer does bear some responsibility.




Shoo

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Re: Shared Room and Snoring
« Reply #74 on: January 18, 2013, 04:37:30 PM »
I'm curious about what kind of responsibility the snorer should accept.  So far, it looks like the only one to have to do anything different, or incur any kind of additional expense is the person who is being kept awake all night by the snoring.

Does that sound fair to you?  It does not sound fair to me.