Babysitting and Haircuts

[Sharnita]

I do know of families where Grandma is the de facto if not legal guardian. Maybe the parents are too immature, too selfish, have drug problems, whatever. In those familes Grandma would have the authority to make a call regarding haircuts. OTOH, she wouldn't have to hide it.

[Danika]

I know the mom vs. dad thing is a tangent that the OP didn't bring up, so I'll try to be brief.

While I think that most people can say that dads don't care about hair, I don't think it's fair to make that decision for all dads.

My DH has opinions on how our kids' (we have one girl and one boy) hair should be. He also thinks, and I concur, that it's important what the kids think of their own hair, and they're still little.

I usually style their hair, but DH has attempted to comb DD's long hair and put in ponytails. I have 30+ more years of experience, but for a newbie, he does a good job and I applaud his efforts.

The other day, I suggested to DH that I might give our DS a flat-top haircut but I ran it by him first. He was strongly opposed to the idea. DS looks a lot like DH did as a kid and DH has really bad memories of having a buzz cut because of a traumatic incident at school. When DH was 5, his parents were missionaries. They lived in a place where everyone was one race and DH was not that race. DH was the only child with blond hair. The kids teased him and ganged up on him and dumped house paint is his hair. His parents couldn't get it out and they had to shave his head. Seeing our son in a buzz cut would remind him of this, so out of respect, I'm not going to buzz DS's hair.

I think what OP's FSIL's mom did was a huge boundary violation and disrespectful. I think FBIL and FSIL should tell her they are very upset even if it falls on deaf ears. They have a right and duty to speak up in defense of their boundaries and their DD. And I really don't think they should let her mom see any kids unsupervised because she lied and disrespected them. She has not shown any remorse.

And I agree with the PP who said that the fact that the mom lied about it shows that the mom knows it was wrong and would not have met with their approval. I will add that the fact that the mom did it while FBIL and FSIL were not there also indicates that she knows they would not have approved.

And I wouldn't accept a non-apology from mom either. A huffy "Fine. Whatever. If you're so oversensitive and it's such a big deal, I apologize. Sheesh. Get over it" is not an apology. Unless mom truly showed remorse and I trusted her not to do something like this ever again, I wouldn't let her babysit.

[Eden]

Because.

That's why.

And, because I don't think most men care about it in the same way moms do. And in almost every situation I've known, the mom is the one who does the bulk of the logistical work w/ haircare, etc. And even if the dad DOES handle this, the mom knows everything *as well* (but moms don't always tell dads about their plans).

And yes, it's sexist, and I don't particularly care.

No, it's just offensive and a pretty interesting assumption.

It's not an interesting assumption, it's real life.  You may not agree with it, but that doesn't mean that's not the way it is.

Wow. Well just because you said it doesn't mean that's the way it is either.

I may be true the majority of the time, but that doesn't mean it is ALL of the time, which is why I take offense to the statement.

I think most of us interpreted Toot's remark to mean "Dad's do not unilaterally make the decision to cut (or allow someone else to cut) their child's hair without first consulting with the Mom".  I don't think Toots ever meant Dad's opinions don't count at all.

This I agree with

[Shoo]

I usually style their hair, but DH has attempted to comb DD's long hair and put in ponytails. I have 30+ more years of experience, but for a newbie, he does a good job and I applaud his efforts.

How would you feel if your husband decided your daughter's hair was just too difficult for him to put in a pony tail, so he just decided to have it all cut off.  Easier for him, right?

No one is saying Dad's shouldn't have input if they want it.  It's been my observation that most men don't want it.  Certainly not ALL men.  No one has made that claim.

[Dr. F.]

I agree that the lying is the deal-breaker here, particularly because it was actually an attempt (failed) to gaslight the parents. That's just creepy and would lead me to never trust her again.

What does FFIL want the dad to apologize for? I'm confused by that.

[Sharnita]

I think the problem is rather that it was presented as if  all men should follow the Universal Rule of Toots. It is a bit off putting to see somebody insist that their experience should be used as a standard to set rules that all should follow, whether their experiences are the same or not. I am not sure if Toots meant it that way but it sure came off that way.

[onyonryngs]

I think the problem is rather that it was presented as if  all men should follow the Universal Rule of Toots. It is a bit off putting to see somebody insist that their experience should be used as a standard to set rules that all should follow, whether their experiences are the same or not. I am not sure if Toots meant it that way but it sure came off that way.

POD.  That's how I read it as well.  I have to say that I took that post with a grain of salt though.  If someone tells me upfront that they have no problem with making a sexist comment, I take that as a warning that I'm probably not going to agree with it.   

[Perfect Circle]

I think the problem is rather that it was presented as if  all men should follow the Universal Rule of Toots. It is a bit off putting to see somebody insist that their experience should be used as a standard to set rules that all should follow, whether their experiences are the same or not. I am not sure if Toots meant it that way but it sure came off that way.

I agree. And my experience is that my husband actually gets my child ready for school more than I do because of how life works. So he gets a big say in her hairstyle because he has to be the one to make it neat for school.

[Moray]

There is a rule, and grandparents should know it: No Grandparent May Get a Grandchild's Hair Cut Without the Express, Direct, and Wholehearted Approval of the Mother. (No, Not Even Dads Are Allowed to Permit This--Only Moms.)

Seriously? Dad's doesn't get a say? What's the rational behind that? 

Because.

That's why.

And, because I don't think most men care about it in the same way moms do. And in almost every situation I've known, the mom is the one who does the bulk of the logistical work w/ haircare, etc. And even if the dad DOES handle this, the mom knows everything *as well* (but moms don't always tell dads about their plans).

And yes, it's sexist, and I don't particularly care.

In my case, I *had* told my MIL several times that we were growing it out and that she should stop fussing about DD's hair in her fact, because soon it was going to be long enough to put in the ponytail.

You know, the only person who's allowed to use that sort of rationale with me are my parents, and even their permission has been drastically reduced as I've grown up and moved out of the house.

Why not back up your dictatorial statement with actual reasons? Like "Whoever has to care for the child's hair should have control, and in my house that's me." or "I choose to reject the idea that my pre-conceived notions of Matriarchy might not be universal." or even "I believe men are incapable of rearing children or caring about appearance."

You'd get a great deal of argument regarding the last two, I'm sure, but at least you'd have put forth your reasoning like an adult having a conversation with equals instead of a mom dictating to a bunch of wayward children.

[JenJay]

I think the problem is rather that it was presented as if  all men should follow the Universal Rule of Toots. It is a bit off putting to see somebody insist that their experience should be used as a standard to set rules that all should follow, whether their experiences are the same or not. I am not sure if Toots meant it that way but it sure came off that way.

Very well said. DH would be welcome to take our DD for a haircut and he personally cuts our sons' hair in whatever style they all agree on. I'd do my best to help DD with her hair but, having very fine, somewhat thin hair that you can't do anything with, it's not an area I have much knowledge in. Not that it matters since DD is a "wash it, comb it, get on with other things" girl like me. DH has probably helped her with as many pony tails as I have.

Obviously a lot of moms take a great interest in their kids' hair but a lot don't. I guarantee if I informed my DH that he wasn't allowed to decide how to cut our kids' hair he'd tell me I was out of line and he'd be right.

[EMuir]

I really think that the parents not only need to agree on their child's hair cutting plan, but once the child gets old enough to care, the child MUST be part of the process.

One of the traumatic memories of my childhood was when I was 10 or so and went to a local stylist with my mother.  I had my hair in long braids because I was a bit of a tomboy and wanted easy care hair, and my mom wouldn't let me have it cut short, so it was a compromise.  On this visit when I thought I was just getting my bangs trimmed, the stylist ended up cutting the hair on the top and sides shorter so that it had to be kept back with barrettes. Two problems with that: I have very curly hair that frizzes up even with two barrettes per side.  That is why the choices were short or very long. Second problem: I was a tomboy and HATED having to do more than the absolute minimum with my hair.

For years my school pictures were horrible because of this halo of frizz around my head.  I never did mention it to my mom, I think my tears after the appointment were enough message about surprise hairstyles.

[Winterlight]

I'd be annoyed by the haircut, but angered by the lying and attempted gaslighting.

[cass2591]

Because.

That's why.

That's quite a condesceding and snotty answer. If you can't articulate why you feel the way you do, fine, just admit it, but don't reply to people here as though you are their mother. It is not appreciated at all.

[Moray]

I think the problem is rather that it was presented as if  all men should follow the Universal Rule of Toots. It is a bit off putting to see somebody insist that their experience should be used as a standard to set rules that all should follow, whether their experiences are the same or not. I am not sure if Toots meant it that way but it sure came off that way.

Very well said. DH would be welcome to take our DD for a haircut and he personally cuts our sons' hair in whatever style they all agree on. I'd do my best to help DD with her hair but, having very fine, somewhat thin hair that you can't do anything with, it's not an area I have much knowledge in. Not that it matters since DD is a "wash it, comb it, get on with other things" girl like me. DH has probably helped her with as many pony tails as I have.

Obviously a lot of moms take a great interest in their kids' hair but a lot don't. I guarantee if I informed my DH that he wasn't allowed to decide how to cut our kids' hair he'd tell me I was out of line and he'd be right.

I think every family's situation is unique. JenJay's is a good example of why a blanket rule can't apply.

OP, I don't think any apology is warranted. FSIL has every right to be upset that her kid's hair was cut without her permission and that she was lied to about it.

[artk2002]

There is a rule, and grandparents should know it: No Grandparent May Get a Grandchild's Hair Cut Without the Express, Direct, and Wholehearted Approval of the Mother. (No, Not Even Dads Are Allowed to Permit This--Only Moms.)

Seriously? Dad's doesn't get a say? What's the rational behind that? 

Because.

That's why.

And, because I don't think most men care about it in the same way moms do. And in almost every situation I've known, the mom is the one who does the bulk of the logistical work w/ haircare, etc. And even if the dad DOES handle this, the mom knows everything *as well* (but moms don't always tell dads about their plans).

And yes, it's sexist, and I don't particularly care.

In my case, I *had* told my MIL several times that we were growing it out and that she should stop fussing about DD's hair in her fact, because soon it was going to be long enough to put in the ponytail.

Wow. Just, wow.