Unreasonable Expectations? (Long)

[jimithing]

Is there a common ground that you can find similar to what dh and I established for ourselves?   

That is a great question and I will have to sit on it.  I think that perhaps him becoming a paramedic, which he contends is the majority of firefighter work anyway, may be the compromise.  His uncle is a firefighter and lives very close to us, so I think there's some sort of desire on his part to emulate him.  Thanks for your help! 

Shouldn't KeenReader be weighing in on this as well, since we all share the same mind? 

[Tabris]

Is his uncle married? If so, could you ask to speak to his aunt and have a woman-to-woman conversation about how to manage the worry? What the actual statistics are on firefighter injuries? (etc.)

I think it's not an unreasonable expectation if you have already made attempts to manage your objections yourself before coming to them with him. Kind of like the way you would try to trouble-shoot your computer before calling the IT department.   It helps him know you're serious about helping him meet his goals, but you're having difficulties you can't see past.

[RuneGuardian]

All I have to add about your friend is that if if her BF of 6 months (actually, the length of their relationship is irrelevant) objects to her pursuing a graduate degree she seriously needs to re-evaluate the relationship. Shouldn't someone who has your best interests at heart encourage you to do what you want to do? We're not talking about a high risk occupation here.

I agree. ((thread drift))  My ex tried to keep me from going to college because he was afraid I'd cheat on him, so he had me convinved for a short time to take a year off and live with him. Then I changed my mind and he started coming up with all these completely unreasonable solutions, the first being that he would live with me in my dorm. He didn't plan on being a student - he just assumed that he could slip past security and convince my roommates to be okay with his being there in violation of the lease. I reminded him how impossible that idea was, and he decided he'd rent an apartment by himself in College Town. Yes, the man who has never worked a day in his life was going to pay $1000+ per month in rent by himself.

Eventually, he decided the only way I could be trusted to not cheat was if we were engaged, so over a period of two weeks, he presented with countless rings, which were either from gumball machines or ones he took from his mother's jewelry box and asked me to choose one for my engagement ring. I also could not wear one of my own rings to class without him asking, "You wanna use that one for our engagement?"

Big red flags went up when, after a year, he couldn't trust me enough to go to college and still be faithful.

I remember when my BF was in basic training for the Marines - I was scared to death for him because, although he said he was going to pursue a position that didn't involve battling, my roommate told me that, in the event of a shortage of soldiers, BF might get forced against his will into battle, regardless of experience. His parents pretty much coerced him into going because he was having a hard time finding work. As awful as this sounds, I was overjoyed to hear he got discharged (for a lung problem) after training. But, as scared as I was, I supported him...because I knew that he needed me more than ever to get him through his time there.

[guihong]

I'm in this same situation.  I want to go to law school, and took the LSAT, but husband flatly refuses to discuss it.  He objects to the cost, child care, and time, but I think he is deeply afraid I'll find myself financially independent and that much more able to leave (if I was going to).  Some men don't want their partners to "be above" them in education or salary.

gui

[snowball's chance]

I'm in this same situation.  I want to go to law school, and took the LSAT, but husband flatly refuses to discuss it.  He objects to the cost, child care, and time, but I think he is deeply afraid I'll find myself financially independent and that much more able to leave (if I was going to).  Some men don't want their partners to "be above" them in education or salary.
gui

You hit the nail on the head, guihong.  Let me guess, Jimithing, your friend's BF DOESN'T have an advanced degree?  B/c when I read the post, my 1st thought is that he was theatened.

The cost thing is BS, IMO.  Yes, there will be less money earned while the person's in school, and they will have loans, but the degree, you will be in a better position to command a higher salary to pay it off. 

Gui, i'm sorry to criticize your husband, but his stance makes me so angry!!!!  How many wives put their husbands through school w/o giving it a second thought? 

jimi, I agree w/ Tabris that you should use the "I feel" statements to tell your husband about the safety worries, but I'd encourage you not to refuse to let hime train for a job he'll love.  If he's unhappy w/ his career, that can easily spill over into the marriage.

[Calbrini]

I always regret taking notice of my ex who objected to me applying for nursing school when I was 18. I ended up working in a factory instead as the hours suited him. Any part-time course I wanted to do I was stopped as his friends girlfriend went to college and got new friends who 'put ideas in her head'.

This guy sounds like a control freak.

[jimithing]

You hit the nail on the head, guihong.  Let me guess, Jimithing, your friend's BF DOESN'T have an advanced degree?  B/c when I read the post, my 1st thought is that he was theatened.

Dh's uncle has been divorced twice. So, no one really to talk to on that end.

This is correct.  He's a real estate agent.  I told her that she needs to figure what his expectations are for a wife and figure out if they are on opposite ends of the spectrum.  I have a feeling that he is thinking that the roles will be traditional, with him working and her staying home and taking care of the kids.  They went to a wedding last night and she said that she was going to have a serious discussion with him.  I will update you guys.  Thanks for all of your help!

[Lisbeth]

Is there a common ground that you can find similar to what dh and I established for ourselves?   

That is a great question and I will have to sit on it.  I think that perhaps him becoming a paramedic, which he contends is the majority of firefighter work anyway, may be the compromise.  His uncle is a firefighter and lives very close to us, so I think there's some sort of desire on his part to emulate him.  Thanks for your help! 

Shouldn't KeenReader be weighing in on this as well, since we all share the same mind? 

I weighed in earlier in the thread, but I agree with sparksals that the best things you can do are find support groups and ask your husband to be supportive of a dream of yours that has the potential to be expensive, time-consuming, or otherwise difficult to attain but otherwise very satisfying.

And talk things out as much as you can before either of you make irrevocable decisions, and continue to be flexible.

Given that I'm still single, I'm not sure how much my advice is worth, but I'd like for my brain-sisters to have the best possible lives.

[sparksals]

Is there a common ground that you can find similar to what dh and I established for ourselves?   

That is a great question and I will have to sit on it.  I think that perhaps him becoming a paramedic, which he contends is the majority of firefighter work anyway, may be the compromise.  His uncle is a firefighter and lives very close to us, so I think there's some sort of desire on his part to emulate him.  Thanks for your help! 

Shouldn't KeenReader be weighing in on this as well, since we all share the same mind? 

The key thing is to not outright forbid it.  You want to show him that you're willing to compromise and take his needs, dreams and goals into consideration.  If he sees you making an attempt to make an informed decision instead of one based solely on fear, then he will also be willing to meet you in the middle. 

Since your UIL is a firefighter, can you talk to his wife?  Maybe you could visit his fire station and talk to the other firefighters or get contact info for some wives. 

KR - where are you?

ETA:  I PM'd LoPoppet because her dh is in fed law enforcement and she may be able to chime in on how you can research and come to terms with some sort of compromise.

[sparksals]

I'm in this same situation.  I want to go to law school, and took the LSAT, but husband flatly refuses to discuss it.  He objects to the cost, child care, and time, but I think he is deeply afraid I'll find myself financially independent and that much more able to leave (if I was going to).  Some men don't want their partners to "be above" them in education or salary.

gui

Oh my!  Your situation makes me very sad.      Your situation is far different than Jimithing's because your husband's objections are based on jealousy, insecurity and control.  Please don't let him hold you back. 

Do you feel his objections are because he doesn't want you to be above him in education, salary and career accomplishments?

[tiggnduff]

I think that your friend should pursue her goals at this point unencumbered by her bf expectations.  They have only been together 6 months and by your post are dating and not living together or in a otherwise outwardly committed relationship (ie engaged).  She may regret giving up her goals in 6 months when it may be likely that bf is not around.

Now I think that your situation jimithing is different.  You are not only dealing with your husbands goals but his goal is going to put him into a clearly dangerous situation at times.  This is not just him wanting to go back to school to be a podiatrist but a job where his life may be at risk or at least injury is at risk.  To me this is different and a spouses view should carry a bit more weight as they are the one's who must live with the worry etc.  I don't think I could do it myself.  Just like you I just don't think it could be something I could handle (kudos to those that do) so I would hope that if dh came home tomorrow and said he wanted to be a policeman or firefighter that my issues with it would have a heavy weight on the discussion.

Have you talked to him about how you feel???  You obviously want to support him but are feeling guilty about your feelings.  Maybe it's time to calmly state how you feel?

[jimithing]

Have you talked to him about how you feel???  You obviously want to support him but are feeling guilty about your feelings.  Maybe it's time to calmly state how you feel?

Oh, I have many times.  I actually developed situational anxiety, as I stated in a previous post, and went to a therapist for several months.  This helped a lot, but now that he has switched jobs my anxiety level is very minimal.  I'm sure that it would go up greatly if he were to be a firefighter, especially when I read things in the news about firemen losing their lives, as just happened yesterday.

My therapist did point out that my job as a social worker and dealing with juvenile delinquents is probably more dangerous than my husband's.  I had never thought of it that way before.  I am a lot safer and less naive than I was at 21 when I started in this field, but we have had several social workers killed in the past few years in my state, so I am in a risky profession as well.  Again, he hasn't brought this up in a while but I did overhear him on the phone to his mom telling her that he may just pursue the paramedic license and stop with that.  We'll see. 

[blarg314]

With regards to the first situation

I think a lot depends on the way the objections were phrased.  Pointing out that doing a masters would result in a lot more debt without significantly altering her job prospects or earning power is a legitimate point for someone considering a masters in nursing. Another valid point would be the effects of doing a graduate degree without acquiring practical experience in the work force, as some people finish training in things like nursing or teaching, and discover they really don't like the job.

A good partner supports the other person, but should also provide helpful advice, and be there to point out other considerations, rather than just being a yes-man and saying "Oh wonderful, honey, you're going to quit your job as a lawyer and take your garage band on the job.  Don't worry about the fact that I'm eight months pregnant adn about to go on mat leave."

I think that in a long term partnership, major life decisions have to be made in consultation. I don't think one person should veto the other person's dream unilaterally, but neither should one person make a life altering decision without considering the effects on their family. It may take more planning and compromise, particularly if a major change in location or financial situation is required.

[sparksals]

With regards to the first situation

I think a lot depends on the way the objections were phrased.  Pointing out that doing a masters would result in a lot more debt without significantly altering her job prospects or earning power is a legitimate point for someone considering a masters in nursing. Another valid point would be the effects of doing a graduate degree without acquiring practical experience in the work force, as some people finish training in things like nursing or teaching, and discover they really don't like the job.

A good partner supports the other person, but should also provide helpful advice, and be there to point out other considerations, rather than just being a yes-man and saying "Oh wonderful, honey, you're going to quit your job as a lawyer and take your garage band on the job.  Don't worry about the fact that I'm eight months pregnant adn about to go on mat leave."

I think that in a long term partnership, major life decisions have to be made in consultation. I don't think one person should veto the other person's dream unilaterally, but neither should one person make a life altering decision without considering the effects on their family. It may take more planning and compromise, particularly if a major change in location or financial situation is required.

Blarg - you said it perfectly!

[ClaireC79]

One thing though we are getting a second hand version of the way the girlfriend heard it - it may not be the same way as the boyfriend went.

If it was along the lines of 'but you said that you want to cut down to part time hours when we get married/have kids?  You moan that there's enough paperwork in nursing as it is and hate the idea of going into management so why put yourself so far into debt when you don't actually want to use it'