Flaky Friend: Is this worth cutting our friendship over? Update #31,#56

[Otterpop]

We just cut a friend due to this.  It was her third strike in causing us stress and the first in costing us money.  When I expressed my feelings all I got back was justification, so no more friendship.

If you feel comfortable, express your frustration and she how she deals with it.  If she's genuinely sorry, remain friends but scale back on making any plans with her.  If she justifies being flaky, drop the friendship, she's way too self-centered.

[BuffaloFang]

Now you say it's not about the money.  Why mention it?

I really only brought up the money to illustrate how deep she was into the planning before backing out. I agree, $500 is a significant amount of money, but we are a large enough group that a communist method of divying up her share would not significantly harm any of us.

She called about the logistics of trying to get refunds for some of the stuff, and gave me a brief apology about about the canceling.  I said something like, "Frankly, it wasn't a huge surprise.  You do this often." and brought up the ski-trip incident.  Her reply was that she didn't remember that - no apology. And then she became very short with me on the phone.  Since then I've only had brief emails about refunding aspects of the trip. Oh well - at this point I don't think we have much to say to each other. I suppose I'll just leave things where they lie and write off the friendship for my sanity.

[Venus193]

The money issue is also a matter of principle.  While it might not present a vast out-of-pocket to some, it still represents the lack of respect the subject of this thread has for her friends.

[Minmom3]

Now you say it's not about the money.  Why mention it?

I really only brought up the money to illustrate how deep she was into the planning before backing out. I agree, $500 is a significant amount of money, but we are a large enough group that a communist method of divying up her share would not significantly harm any of us.

She called about the logistics of trying to get refunds for some of the stuff, and gave me a brief apology about about the canceling.  I said something like, "Frankly, it wasn't a huge surprise.  You do this often." and brought up the ski-trip incident.  Her reply was that she didn't remember that - no apology. And then she became very short with me on the phone.  Since then I've only had brief emails about refunding aspects of the trip. Oh well - at this point I don't think we have much to say to each other. I suppose I'll just leave things where they lie and write off the friendship for my sanity.

If she brings it up again, you could point out that she's cost you (the collective you, not just you individually) money X many times due to backing out late, and it's time for HER to eat the cost...

[fountainof]

I have a friend who I am cooling things with due to similar bahaviour.  While I guess it is flakey, I generally took a step back and realized my "friend" is not flakey, just self-absorbed and friendship only works for her when it suits her needs.  It took someone else I know saying the other person is not really my friend to really step back and realize that is true.  If I said anything to the "friend"  she would just get defensive and cry I was being mean, it wouldn't be productive.  I have chosen just cooling off my contact and concern for her as the best option.

[TurtleDove]

The money issue is also a matter of principle.  While it might not present a vast out-of-pocket to some, it still represents the lack of respect the subject of this thread has for her friends.

Absolutely.  I strongly dislike arguing about money, and will always put my relationship with people ahead of my "relationship" with money, but I am big on respect in relationships, and this friend is not showing respect to the OP.  In terms of whether it is worth cutting the friendship, I think the OP has gotten some good advice and it really comes down to what the OP wants.  I do think it makes sense to not make plans with the friend again.  Even busy people make time for what is important to them, and if their schedules truly are too busy that they have to cancel on a friend, they apologize and do what they can to make it up.  I don't see the friend doing this here.

[oceanus]

Now you say it's not about the money.  Why mention it?

I really only brought up the money to illustrate how deep she was into the planning before backing out. I agree, $500 is a significant amount of money, but we are a large enough group that a communist method of divying up her share would not significantly harm any of us.

She called about the logistics of trying to get refunds for some of the stuff, and gave me a brief apology about about the canceling.  I said something like, "Frankly, it wasn't a huge surprise.  You do this often." and brought up the ski-trip incident.  Her reply was that she didn't remember that - no apology. And then she became very short with me on the phone.  Since then I've only had brief emails about refunding aspects of the trip. Oh well - at this point I don't think we have much to say to each other. I suppose I'll just leave things where they lie and write off the friendship for my sanity.

(re: bolded) She is lying. 

Interesting how, when even mildly confronted, she uses a short (as in snippy) tone, or (with the other person) gives the silent treatment.  What a piece of work this woman is.   OP, labeling her "flakey" is way too kind.

Writing her off is the smart thing to do.

[Queen of Clubs]

She called about the logistics of trying to get refunds for some of the stuff, and gave me a brief apology about about the canceling.  I said something like, "Frankly, it wasn't a huge surprise.  You do this often." and brought up the ski-trip incident.  Her reply was that she didn't remember that - no apology. And then she became very short with me on the phone.  Since then I've only had brief emails about refunding aspects of the trip. Oh well - at this point I don't think we have much to say to each other. I suppose I'll just leave things where they lie and write off the friendship for my sanity.

(re: bolded) She is lying. 

She might not be lying.  It didn't inconvenience her, so why should she remember it?

It's like a relative of mine.  She had a row with her SO, who told her that she sometimes said really horrible things.  She complained to me and said she doesn't.  I backed her SO up and told her some of the things she'd said to me.  She didn't remember them.  Why should she?  They didn't cause her pain.  I, on the other hand, do remember them.  I'm sure her ex-SO remembers the things she said to him too.

As for Flaky Friend, she wasn't inconvenienced at all.  At the time, she blew it off as nothing important, so why should she remember something of such little significance?  The fact that it is significant to other people either hasn't occurred to her or just doesn't matter.

Good for you, OP, for calling her on it.  If she has any respect at all for your time and money (and your friends' time and money), she'll stop this.  But I suspect she doesn't and won't.

[kudeebee]

i would not be making any more plans with her for trips, concerts, anything that requires money to be paid.  If you feel you must include her for some reason, say other members of the group want to include her, make it clear that anyone who signs up must pay in advance and realize that what they pay will be nonrefundable.  I would be sure to tell her this when she says she wants to go and when she gives the money.

I agree with your dh, she should not get any money back.  Why should the rest of you have to cover her costs?  If she has to lose her deposits/payments a time or two, she may not sign up for any more trips or may actually show up.

[Iris]

I agree with your dh, she should not get any money back.  Why should the rest of you have to cover her costs?  If she has to lose her deposits/payments a time or two, she may not sign up for any more trips or may actually show up.

This. I can't believe that she is wanting money returned to her before the rest of you have recouped any out-of-pocket expenses you are left with. I wouldn't say to not give her back ANY money, I don't think that's right, but certainly the first $500 of any possible refunds need to be earmarked to cover the other non-refundable parts of the trip that you guys are currently covering.

I would simply *assume* that that's going to happen. I.e. say "Well, you can get a refund of $100 from Hotel Y, so that will cover half of your non-refundable expense for Tour Z." If she says that she wants the money herself I would say in a surprised voice "How were you going to pay for Tour Z? (pause) Did you think that *I* should pay for Tour Z? (pause) Wow." It will also give you insight into whether she really is just a using user or whether she is just too stressed from work etc. That, to me, would make the difference between toning down the friendship to non-monetary plans or simply cutting it off.

[sammycat]

Wait a minute - she wants a refund?!?  Is she serious?  Please tell me that this is not going to happen in a million years.

Is anyone going to turn it back on her and ask when and how she was going to reimburse the rest of the group for the money they/you're now out of pocket for? I have to say if I was a member of this group and someone else in the group had unilaterally decided on behalf of everyone not to bother calling this girl on the money she owed I'd be also rethinking my relationship with them also.

This is not a friend.  I personally wouldn't bother with her anymore.  If I ran into her somewhere I'd be coolly civil, but that's it.

[Venus193]

It continually amazes me when people like this can get away with this behavior for so long without being called out on it.  (Wishing we had a head-shaking smilie).

[CrazyDaffodilLady]

She cancelled, resulting in added cost for the group . . . and now she wants your help in getting refunds.  Just wow. 

[BuffaloFang]

Just to clarify, she's not getting refunds from us - she's trying to get as much of the hotel/tour reimbursement refunded from the companies as possible - she hasn't paid any of it, other people have put the money down, so in essence it behooves us to get her part refunded.  It at least shows she is considering paying the costs that cannot be refunded.

The tour fortunately was willing to refund her portion.  So now all we're really out is one non-refundable hotel and the additional expense per person of having a "single room" for the hotels that were originally assumed to be a double room rate (not sure if that's clear).  I don't know that we can really recoup that money, since it's hard to say if the other participants we would have invited in lieu of her would have come. And in all honesty, I really don't feel like having that fight.  The sooner I can stop dealing with her and the sadness (and admittedly anger) I feel when I think of her bailing and the loss of her friendship, the better.

[bopper]

Clearly you should stop telling her about these trips.

And tell your other friends that they should consider doing it also.

If she does hear of plans, Don't make any plans around her..."Flakina, we are not going to get a condo with hottub in the living room.
The rest of us don't care and we can get a condo closer to the slope that way. Oh, you won't go if we don't? Quite frankly you have backed out of 3 of the last 5 trips anyway."  or  "we will have a policy for this trip  that you have to put down the full amount of your share of lodging. If you back out that will be forfeited so the rest of the group does not have to pay more."