Author Topic: Friends and medical conditions. (Epic length) Addl Info p51 & 58  (Read 8508 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

TurtleDove

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6289
Re: Friends and medical conditions. (Epic length)
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2013, 11:45:30 AM »
Given all her background, her friend's comments were completely inappropriate. 

Unless we have a direct quote, I cannot agree with this.  Any time something is paraphrased, there is danger of tone being completely changed, or misinterpretation of what was actually said.

Cat-Fu

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 523
  • My cat is a ninja
Re: Friends and medical conditions. (Epic length)
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2013, 11:58:14 AM »
Honestly, I really can't compute how responding to a "I have been diagnosed with X and treatment is going well" comment with a "well doctors misdiagnose all the time" comment could possibly be construed as helpful. What am I missing??
“Poetry is a sword of lightning, ever unsheathed, which consumes the scabbard that would contain it.” PBS

TurtleDove

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6289
Re: Friends and medical conditions. (Epic length)
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2013, 12:03:39 PM »
Honestly, I really can't compute how responding to a "I have been diagnosed with X and treatment is going well" comment with a "well doctors misdiagnose all the time" comment could possibly be construed as helpful. What am I missing??

We don't know that is what the OP's status update said, for one. If the status update said, "I have been diagnosed with condition X" I think it makes sense for someone to believe the OP is upset about this diagnosis and to comfort her that it may not be as bad as she thinks.  I know I would rather hear, for example, that I should stop eating so many sweets rather than that I have incurable diabetes. (Just a random example).  I grasp that some people would rather be told they have the diabetes and that it is out of their control, but not everyone feels that way. 

I don't think we have enough information to condemn the friend.  I think we do have enough information to believe the OP was overly harsh in her response.

Twik

  • A Pillar of the Forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 28769
Re: Friends and medical conditions. (Epic length)
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2013, 12:32:06 PM »
I know I would rather hear, for example, that I should stop eating so many sweets rather than that I have incurable diabetes. (Just a random example).

A person might prefer to hear that. However, if the person actually has diabetes, it's not actually helpful to have someone with no medical training or familiarity with one's symptoms or tests to tell the person that.

Quote
I grasp that some people would rather be told they have the diabetes and that it is out of their control, but not everyone feels that way.


I'm not sure why  being given a diagnosis indicates that something is out of their control. Personally, I would rather know what is wrong with me than be given inaccurate reassurances that I'm fine (or worse, implied condemnation that I am being a hypochondriac in getting medical advice in the first place).

Even if the OP's friend were acting from the best of intentions, for someone with no knowledge of what is going on in the OP's health to tell her to discount the information given her by a doctor is wrongheaded and potentially dangerous (even deadly). "Just stop eating sweets, you'll be fine," is horrible advice if, say, someone really needs to take insulin.
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

bah12

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 5305
Re: Friends and medical conditions. (Epic length)
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2013, 12:33:01 PM »
Honestly, I really can't compute how responding to a "I have been diagnosed with X and treatment is going well" comment with a "well doctors misdiagnose all the time" comment could possibly be construed as helpful. What am I missing??

We don't know that is what the OP's status update said, for one. If the status update said, "I have been diagnosed with condition X" I think it makes sense for someone to believe the OP is upset about this diagnosis and to comfort her that it may not be as bad as she thinks.  I know I would rather hear, for example, that I should stop eating so many sweets rather than that I have incurable diabetes. (Just a random example).  I grasp that some people would rather be told they have the diabetes and that it is out of their control, but not everyone feels that way. 

I don't think we have enough information to condemn the friend.  I think we do have enough information to believe the OP was overly harsh in her response.

I can appreciate that these words would be comforting to you, but I honestly haven't met anyone that would be comforted by a diagnosis of diabetes with "well, stop eating so many sweets...problem solved."  Even if the condition is a direct result of action or inaction on their part, not many people want to hear "it's all your fault.  Stop doing things wrong...because you did this to yourself."  Therefore, I wouldn't even dream of saying something like this to someone...much less make the assumption that it's an appropriate and comforting thing to say to someone on facebook.

I get that you want to give the OP's friend the benefit of the doubt.  I seriously doubt she was trying to be viscious...but she did come across as a 'know it all' and dismissive of the OP.  She's not a doctor.  It's not cool.  And the OP has a right to tell her she was hurt.  Even though her response may have been unnecessarily harsh, the Friend's response was way OTT. I know I would appreciate being told that my well-meaning words were hurtful to a friend so that I would know how to better comfort in the future.  I certainly wouldn't blame my friend for telling me so (though I wouldn't have faulted the friend for pointing out the the OP may have hurtful in her response).   And for that, I think that the OP is well rid of her.

TurtleDove

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6289
Re: Friends and medical conditions. (Epic length)
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2013, 12:35:02 PM »
Even if the OP's friend were acting from the best of intentions, for someone with no knowledge of what is going on in the OP's health to tell her to discount the information given her by a doctor is wrongheaded and potentially dangerous (even deadly). "Just stop eating sweets, you'll be fine," is horrible advice if, say, someone really needs to take insulin.

Again, I did not see that the friend told the OP to discount anything. The paraphrase certainly didn't say that. 

The issue: A friend who i haven't spoken to in a long time replied to my post saying (paraphrased)

Do bear in mind that these days people are diagnosed with stuff all the time that years ago would have just been "normal" and there's nothing wrong with them. Doctors tend to jump the gun with this kind of thing. (She then made an adhd/naughty kids comparison but that's a whole 'nother rant, please don't derail with that, thank you)


I also don't really follow how a person saying something they have no knowledge about is harmful to the OP.  Presumably the OP can make her own educated decisions and wouldn't change her mind about her own health plan based on comments made by everyone.  That would be a nightmare!
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 12:37:11 PM by TurtleDove »

Roe

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6484
Re: Friends and medical conditions. (Epic length)
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2013, 12:49:21 PM »


Could we please avoid derailing the thread with the posting stuff on facebook discussion, which, unfortunately has been done to death. :D


Actually, FB discussion isn't derailing the thread, it's part of why you had the problem to begin with.  As PP's mentioned, be careful who you post to on FB and you will be less likely to encounter this type of situation.

I'm not sure. If Golden Phoenix has her facebook limited to people who she expected to be interested in her health then I think she's done all she can. .

Oh sorry, I thought she posted on FB for her whole list to see. I didn't realize that she only posted to a handful of people who might be interested. 

Twik

  • A Pillar of the Forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 28769
Re: Friends and medical conditions. (Epic length)
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2013, 12:53:07 PM »
I'm afraid that we do read different things into the paraphrase. I read (1) Doctors overdiagnose stuff that is "normal", which is probably what is going on with you, and (2) things like ADHD are not "real" conditions, and just excuses to cover up one's own failings. I don't see anything here meant to be comforting, and I see a lot in it that would be dangerous if the OP were not wise enough to discount it.

Yes, it would be a nightmare if people stopped listening to their doctors because someone "knew better" what was wrong with them. Unfortunately, it happens not infrequently, and I think that was the goal of the OP's friend.
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

Bexx27

  • Striving to meet the minimum requirements of social acceptability
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1899
Re: Friends and medical conditions. (Epic length)
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2013, 12:56:10 PM »
Even if the OP's friend were acting from the best of intentions, for someone with no knowledge of what is going on in the OP's health to tell her to discount the information given her by a doctor is wrongheaded and potentially dangerous (even deadly). "Just stop eating sweets, you'll be fine," is horrible advice if, say, someone really needs to take insulin.

Again, I did not see that the friend told the OP to discount anything. The paraphrase certainly didn't say that. 

The issue: A friend who i haven't spoken to in a long time replied to my post saying (paraphrased)

Do bear in mind that these days people are diagnosed with stuff all the time that years ago would have just been "normal" and there's nothing wrong with them. Doctors tend to jump the gun with this kind of thing. (She then made an adhd/naughty kids comparison but that's a whole 'nother rant, please don't derail with that, thank you)


I also don't really follow how a person saying something they have no knowledge about is harmful to the OP.  Presumably the OP can make her own educated decisions and wouldn't change her mind about her own health plan based on comments made by everyone.  That would be a nightmare!

The friend's comment basically amounts to "take what doctors say with a grain of salt." How is that not advising her to discount what her doctor said?

I also don't understand what you're getting at with the diabetes analogy. If you have diabetes, it doesn't matter whether you want to hear it or not; you have to hear it in order to get treatment and improve your health. Cutting out sweets is one thing people with diabetes need to do, but it's not always enough. You also seem to be assuming that having an official medical diagnosis means there's nothing you can do about that condition. I see it the opposite way. A diagnosis is what empowers someone to figure out what they need to do to get better. If I am diagnosed with diabetes, I will know that I need to follow a certain diet plan and possibly take insulin. If I do the right things, it's absolutely not "incurable." If I'm diagnosed with a mental disorder, I will know what types of therapy and medication are indicated for that disorder and can pursue the right treatment, rather than never having a diagnosis and not understanding why I can't just will myself to be "normal."
How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and strong. Because someday in life you will have been all of these. -George Washington Carver

Surianne

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 10907
    • Prince ShimmerShine Moondream's Blogging Adventure
Re: Friends and medical conditions. (Epic length)
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2013, 01:01:17 PM »
I'm reading the friend's post as a misguided attempt to be supportive and reassuring, too, so I can see why (if that was her intent) she was shocked by the OP's response.  OP, I think it would have been better to ask her what she meant before assuming horrible motivations and ranting away at her. 

If you want to stay friends, I think it's worth apologizing for jumping straight to ripping into her.  However, if you don't want to stay friends, then I would just put the event out of your mind. 

Yvaine

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 9088
Re: Friends and medical conditions. (Epic length)
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2013, 01:01:43 PM »
I also don't understand what you're getting at with the diabetes analogy. If you have diabetes, it doesn't matter whether you want to hear it or not; you have to hear it in order to get treatment and improve your health. Cutting out sweets is one thing people with diabetes need to do, but it's not always enough. You also seem to be assuming that having an official medical diagnosis means there's nothing you can do about that condition. I see it the opposite way. A diagnosis is what empowers someone to figure out what they need to do to get better. If I am diagnosed with diabetes, I will know that I need to follow a certain diet plan and possibly take insulin. If I do the right things, it's absolutely not "incurable." If I'm diagnosed with a mental disorder, I will know what types of therapy and medication are indicated for that disorder and can pursue the right treatment, rather than never having a diagnosis and not understanding why I can't just will myself to be "normal."

Totally this. I've seen too many people suffer for years and be told it's all in their head by friends and doctors and everybody else, only to finally get a good doctor and a correct diagnosis and finally be able to do something about it. A diagnosis is the first step in finding a solution--it's not a personal insult. I have no idea how a doctor's diagnosis would disempower someone more than a dismissive statement about sweets, which aren't necessarily the only factor in the disease.

Twik

  • A Pillar of the Forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 28769
Re: Friends and medical conditions. (Epic length)
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2013, 01:15:25 PM »
I'm reading the friend's post as a misguided attempt to be supportive and reassuring, too, so I can see why (if that was her intent) she was shocked by the OP's response.  OP, I think it would have been better to ask her what she meant before assuming horrible motivations and ranting away at her. 

If you want to stay friends, I think it's worth apologizing for jumping straight to ripping into her.  However, if you don't want to stay friends, then I would just put the event out of your mind.

But it's not supportive to tell someone who's gotten a diagnosis, after being ill, that it's probably wrong. It's very far from it. Would you tell someone who's been diagnosed with depression, "Oh, your doctor just wants to sell you pills. You just need to eat better, and exercise. Everyone is too dependent on medication these days. Depression is just a case of the blues, and you can will it away!"? If you wouldn't, what is the difference between that and any other physical diagnosis?

It may be reassuring to tell someone "Perhaps the illness isn't that bad, and you'll get better quickly." Telling them that they're not actually sick, when they know they are, and have finally gotten a diagnosis that could help them, is the furthest thing possible from being "supportive".
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

Surianne

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 10907
    • Prince ShimmerShine Moondream's Blogging Adventure
Re: Friends and medical conditions. (Epic length)
« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2013, 01:25:03 PM »
I'm reading the friend's post as a misguided attempt to be supportive and reassuring, too, so I can see why (if that was her intent) she was shocked by the OP's response.  OP, I think it would have been better to ask her what she meant before assuming horrible motivations and ranting away at her. 

If you want to stay friends, I think it's worth apologizing for jumping straight to ripping into her.  However, if you don't want to stay friends, then I would just put the event out of your mind.

But it's not supportive to tell someone who's gotten a diagnosis, after being ill, that it's probably wrong. It's very far from it. Would you tell someone who's been diagnosed with depression, "Oh, your doctor just wants to sell you pills. You just need to eat better, and exercise. Everyone is too dependent on medication these days. Depression is just a case of the blues, and you can will it away!"? If you wouldn't, what is the difference between that and any other physical diagnosis?

It may be reassuring to tell someone "Perhaps the illness isn't that bad, and you'll get better quickly." Telling them that they're not actually sick, when they know they are, and have finally gotten a diagnosis that could help them, is the furthest thing possible from being "supportive".

I'm interpreting the post differently from the way you are -- my reading of it is much closer to TurtleDove's. 

I don't see any malice in the friend's post.  I agree it's awkward and wasn't the best way to go about showing support, but I don't think the friend did anything to deserve the level of anger in the OP's reply. 

amylouky

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1567
Re: Friends and medical conditions. (Epic length)
« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2013, 01:35:22 PM »
Honestly, I really can't compute how responding to a "I have been diagnosed with X and treatment is going well" comment with a "well doctors misdiagnose all the time" comment could possibly be construed as helpful. What am I missing??

That's the thing, though, we don't know that it was "I have been diagnosed with X and treatment is going well". From the info in OP, it could just as easily have been "Scared and need hugs.. just got diagnosed with a brain cloud!"  (points for the reference?)

bah12

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 5305
Re: Friends and medical conditions. (Epic length)
« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2013, 02:20:23 PM »
I'm reading the friend's post as a misguided attempt to be supportive and reassuring, too, so I can see why (if that was her intent) she was shocked by the OP's response.  OP, I think it would have been better to ask her what she meant before assuming horrible motivations and ranting away at her. 

If you want to stay friends, I think it's worth apologizing for jumping straight to ripping into her.  However, if you don't want to stay friends, then I would just put the event out of your mind.

I can't get there from here...but, perhaps the OP paraphrased it based on her own emotions.  The tone of the paraphrase leads me to believe that the post was completely inappropriate...and I'm giving the OP the benefit of the doubt, since she's the one asking for advice.  Maybe it would be helpful to this debate if the OP posted her exact wording and the exact wording of her friend.