Help in Dealing With Sister !~ LONG

[gramma dishes]

Why are her feelings more important than yours?   

[gena264]

Why are her feelings more important than yours?   

Good point. It's just I was labelled as the emotional one in the family and I am trying my best to be polite and listen to her feelings and work things out, so she doesn't have drama to use against me to my DD.. I also was hoping that things could be worked out in a respectful way.I guess I don't want it to get back to my DD that I was not trying with sister.  My family is very very dysfunctional, always has been .

[secretrebel]

This all sounds like a very difficult situation for all the family.

I wonder if you can try to feel grateful that at least DD had family she felt she could go to when things when wrong between the two of you instead of ending up sleeping rough or getting into a dangerous situation. It sounds as though you have a lot of resentment towards your family and it must be really hard to feel they judged your parenting and took over.

But there's got to be a lot more to the story than the short background you gave and you probably didn't mean it that way but this

Very short background. My DD went to live with my parents about 4 years ago many states away. She had just turned 17 and didn't like the rules etc ..

comes across as very dismissive of your daughter's feelings and the perhaps legitimate issues she may have had with your parenting style. If you are thinking of yourself as an excellent parent and your daughter as a defiant rule-braker and your family as lax and disrespectful you're all going to find it much harder to mend the situation. What really matters isn't the past now, it's how you go forward, respectful of each other and careful of each other's feelings.

Maybe you can say to your sister "look, I find it hard to talk about what happened with the family and DD. Can we talk about other things instead while we try to rebuild our relationship?"
And then talk about all sorts of other things, maybe light hearted subjects, areas where you don't feel judged or defensive? Because as long as you're talking about what happened you're going to want to defend yourself and she's going to want to put her side and then it will never end.

[gena264]

This all sounds like a very difficult situation for all the family.

I wonder if you can try to feel grateful that at least DD had family she felt she could go to when things when wrong between the two of you instead of ending up sleeping rough or getting into a dangerous situation. It sounds as though you have a lot of resentment towards your family and it must be really hard to feel they judged your parenting and took over.

But there's got to be a lot more to the story than the short background you gave and you probably didn't mean it that way but this

Very short background. My DD went to live with my parents about 4 years ago many states away. She had just turned 17 and didn't like the rules etc ..

comes across as very dismissive of your daughter's feelings and the perhaps legitimate issues she may have had with your parenting style. If you are thinking of yourself as an excellent parent and your daughter as a defiant rule-braker and your family as lax and disrespectful you're all going to find it much harder to mend the situation. What really matters isn't the past now, it's how you go forward, respectful of each other and careful of each other's feelings.

Maybe you can say to your sister "look, I find it hard to talk about what happened with the family and DD. Can we talk about other things instead while we try to rebuild our relationship?"
And then talk about all sorts of other things, maybe light hearted subjects, areas where you don't feel judged or defensive? Because as long as you're talking about what happened you're going to want to defend yourself and she's going to want to put her side and then it will never end.

I understand what you are saying regarding my post and the background info.  I do know I made some mistakes in my parenting with DD and even talked those over with DD and listened and acknowledged her feelings. I was trying to make the background VERY short since there was a LOT more to the situation. But yes, not dismissing DD's feelings, that was the reason she gave as to why she didn't want to live at home.

I think your idea of what to say to my sister is a good one. She feels that for us to move forward we should address the elephant in the room and say how we feel. That does make sense and in a perfect world would be ideal. I actually thought since enough time had passed we might be able to , but it clearly is going nowhere.

[gemma156]

It's simple don't engage with your sister when she directs her speech to the subject that you don't wish to discuss.  Change the subject, if she redirects back to what she was saying do it again, on the third time it happens end the conversation with I need to answer the door, and will talk to you again soon.

[Sharnita]

If your sis says you can't move forward unless, tell her you are sorry but you will not negotiate that point, she is welcome to contact you should she ever reconsisidrf, you wishofbye. her all the best, go

[GreenBird]

I’d treat the “but we have to clear the air between us” the same way I’d treat all of her efforts to open up this discussion – “Sister, I’m not discussing this with you”.   No JADEing.  And then I’d quit answering the emails where she tries to keep insisting, because you’ve made your position clear.   The way you raised your daughter is NOT an issue between you and your sister – it’s between you and your daughter. 

It sounds like she thinks she’s found a way to make you talk about it by saying it’s about “moving forward with your relation-ship”, but it’s really just another avenue for her to try to insert herself into the issue.  Don’t let her guilt you. 

If your sister is an intervention junkie, her underlying purpose in trying to open up the discussion may be to fulfill her self-image as the one who rescues everyone.  You declined her offer to mediate with your parents, so she’s proceeding anyway but without the cover of the mediation.  Given the “and here’s everything you’ve done wrong” road she immediately went down, it looks to me like she has a vision of exactly how everyone is supposed to react and behave in her intervention.   Everyone is supposed to admit all of their wrongs according to her definition of them, then be terribly sorry and make up, and then be very grateful to her for showing them all the way.  She probably has herself convinced that she’s doing it for the good of everybody, but it’s really more about her.

And unfortunately, your sister can always create drama to use against you to your daughter at any time, just by making it up.  I think there will be a lot less drama overall if you stop the discussion now instead of trying to continue it.  At least this way you’re not giving your sister any ammunition in the form of emails she can show to your daughter and misinterpret to her in the worst possible way.   

[gena264]

I’d treat the “but we have to clear the air between us” the same way I’d treat all of her efforts to open up this discussion – “Sister, I’m not discussing this with you”.   No JADEing.  And then I’d quit answering the emails where she tries to keep insisting, because you’ve made your position clear.   The way you raised your daughter is NOT an issue between you and your sister – it’s between you and your daughter. 

It sounds like she thinks she’s found a way to make you talk about it by saying it’s about “moving forward with your relation-ship”, but it’s really just another avenue for her to try to insert herself into the issue.  Don’t let her guilt you. 

If your sister is an intervention junkie, her underlying purpose in trying to open up the discussion may be to fulfill her self-image as the one who rescues everyone.  You declined her offer to mediate with your parents, so she’s proceeding anyway but without the cover of the mediation.  Given the “and here’s everything you’ve done wrong” road she immediately went down, it looks to me like she has a vision of exactly how everyone is supposed to react and behave in her intervention.   Everyone is supposed to admit all of their wrongs according to her definition of them, then be terribly sorry and make up, and then be very grateful to her for showing them all the way.  She probably has herself convinced that she’s doing it for the good of everybody, but it’s really more about her.

And unfortunately, your sister can always create drama to use against you to your daughter at any time, just by making it up.  I think there will be a lot less drama overall if you stop the discussion now instead of trying to continue it.  At least this way you’re not giving your sister any ammunition in the form of emails she can show to your daughter and misinterpret to her in the worst possible way.

Thank you ! Everything you said makes perfect sense, especially when you said it was mostly about her, and her self image. I couldn't really pinpoint how to phrase it. I know she loves my parents( and me ) and of course would like the family to be 'fixed' , but yes, it is by her definition and her guidance.

[Iris]

Firstly, I think snowdragon nailed this one. As far as I can tell the email could be paraphrased "You are a bad parent because your daughter is just rubbish! Listen to how bad she is at all these things!" I am really concerned that in whatever dysfunctional saviour fantasy your sister is playing out, she is *also* going to your DD, mother, other sister etc, and saying "We need to work this out because of ALL THESE THINGS that are wrong with DD." What a way to spend your late teens/early 20s. Every time someone brings up DD's 'faults' shut them down. "I'm not going to listen to you speaking about DD like that." End of conversation.

Secondly, not only that but your daughter had been with other people for 4 YEARS and everything is still all your fault? What has she been doing for those 4 years? College? A job? Or just sitting around listening to a bunch of incredibly toxic people telling her what a victim of your bad parenting she is and how nothing is ever her fault? No 21 year old should be as invested in her relationship with her mother/her mother's failings as she seems to be. Again I think you need to advocate "I don't see how discussing my faults will help DD achieve Specific Goal A. What needs to happen to help her take Next Step B? This is my child's future we are talking about here, why are you still drivelling on about events that happened 4 years ago? This is not helpful." End of conversation.

This is going to sound like a harsh remark, but I honestly mean this literally: stop making it about you. Don't let sister discuss YOU and YOUR failings. Either she is helping your DD or she gets out of your business. Who cares what her feelings are? All I'm seeing is a toxic group of people using your child as their football.

[gena264]

Firstly, I think snowdragon nailed this one. As far as I can tell the email could be paraphrased "You are a bad parent because your daughter is just rubbish! Listen to how bad she is at all these things!" I am really concerned that in whatever dysfunctional saviour fantasy your sister is playing out, she is *also* going to your DD, mother, other sister etc, and saying "We need to work this out because of ALL THESE THINGS that are wrong with DD." What a way to spend your late teens/early 20s. Every time someone brings up DD's 'faults' shut them down. "I'm not going to listen to you speaking about DD like that." End of conversation.

Secondly, not only that but your daughter had been with other people for 4 YEARS and everything is still all your fault? What has she been doing for those 4 years? College? A job? Or just sitting around listening to a bunch of incredibly toxic people telling her what a victim of your bad parenting she is and how nothing is ever her fault? No 21 year old should be as invested in her relationship with her mother/her mother's failings as she seems to be. Again I think you need to advocate "I don't see how discussing my faults will help DD achieve Specific Goal A. What needs to happen to help her take Next Step B? This is my child's future we are talking about here, why are you still drivelling on about events that happened 4 years ago? This is not helpful." End of conversation.

This is going to sound like a harsh remark, but I honestly mean this literally: stop making it about you. Don't let sister discuss YOU and YOUR failings. Either she is helping your DD or she gets out of your business. Who cares what her feelings are? All I'm seeing is a toxic group of people using your child as their football.

My sister , mother and father are all in this together, with the belief that I raised DD incorrectly. DD has in fact parroted a lot of what they have said because they have actually shared all this with her. They also told DD every 'bad' thing I did as teen and that I was overly emotional and used to curse at my mom (not true). They made things up or exaggerated it and used that to further alienate DD.
DD now has her own apartment and lives with a roommate so she is somewhat away from this whole situation now.

The first year she was there she played around all summer and went to the beach and hung out with my sister. The second year she finished high school and hung around and went to the beach that summer as well. Then she took some courses at college and that is it. Now she works at a juice bar.  She would complain all the time that she had no money, yet she would not made a solid effort to find a part time job . My parents basically said , do what you want, you had it too rough, now you don't have to do anything. DD even said she didn't have to do chores anymore. her chores here were laundry , keeping her room clean and the dishes. She had a part time job while she lived with us out here as well.

[Iris]

Firstly, I think snowdragon nailed this one. As far as I can tell the email could be paraphrased "You are a bad parent because your daughter is just rubbish! Listen to how bad she is at all these things!" I am really concerned that in whatever dysfunctional saviour fantasy your sister is playing out, she is *also* going to your DD, mother, other sister etc, and saying "We need to work this out because of ALL THESE THINGS that are wrong with DD." What a way to spend your late teens/early 20s. Every time someone brings up DD's 'faults' shut them down. "I'm not going to listen to you speaking about DD like that." End of conversation.

Secondly, not only that but your daughter had been with other people for 4 YEARS and everything is still all your fault? What has she been doing for those 4 years? College? A job? Or just sitting around listening to a bunch of incredibly toxic people telling her what a victim of your bad parenting she is and how nothing is ever her fault? No 21 year old should be as invested in her relationship with her mother/her mother's failings as she seems to be. Again I think you need to advocate "I don't see how discussing my faults will help DD achieve Specific Goal A. What needs to happen to help her take Next Step B? This is my child's future we are talking about here, why are you still drivelling on about events that happened 4 years ago? This is not helpful." End of conversation.

This is going to sound like a harsh remark, but I honestly mean this literally: stop making it about you. Don't let sister discuss YOU and YOUR failings. Either she is helping your DD or she gets out of your business. Who cares what her feelings are? All I'm seeing is a toxic group of people using your child as their football.

My sister , mother and father are all in this together, with the belief that I raised DD incorrectly. DD has in fact parroted a lot of what they have said because they have actually shared all this with her. They also told DD every 'bad' thing I did as teen and that I was overly emotional and used to curse at my mom (not true). They made things up or exaggerated it and used that to further alienate DD.
DD now has her own apartment and lives with a roommate so she is somewhat away from this whole situation now.

The first year she was there she played around all summer and went to the beach and hung out with my sister. The second year she finished high school and hung around and went to the beach that summer as well. Then she took some courses at college and that is it. Now she works at a juice bar.  She would complain all the time that she had no money, yet she would not made a solid effort to find a part time job . My parents basically said , do what you want, you had it too rough, now you don't have to do anything. DD even said she didn't have to do chores anymore. her chores here were laundry , keeping her room clean and the dishes. She had a part time job while she lived with us out here as well.

I'm glad she is away from this now. Your family sounds extremely toxic, and I hope your DD finds her own way now that she is somewhat out of their influence. I still think shutting your sister down, every time, is the way to go. Who cares how she feels? She wants to make herself feel better by running you down and punishes you when you don't comply. She needs to let DD get on with her life and get out of your hair about issues that no-one can do anything about now. And really, do you want to mend fences with your sister, mother and father anyway? They don't sound pleasant at all.

[gena264]

[/quote]

I'm glad she is away from this now. Your family sounds extremely toxic, and I hope your DD finds her own way now that she is somewhat out of their influence. I still think shutting your sister down, every time, is the way to go. Who cares how she feels? She wants to make herself feel better by running you down and punishes you when you don't comply. She needs to let DD get on with her life and get out of your hair about issues that no-one can do anything about now. And really, do you want to mend fences with your sister, mother and father anyway? They don't sound pleasant at all.
[/quote]

I have no desire to mend fences with my parents. I wanted to try with my sister because her and I had a very close relation-ship when we were younger. I really don't need this drama she is bringing now though. ...and yes my family has always been VERY toxic. I am glad I live far , far away from them.

[SoCalVal]

It's simple don't engage with your sister when she directs her speech to the subject that you don't wish to discuss.  Change the subject, if she redirects back to what she was saying do it again, on the third time it happens end the conversation with I need to answer the door, and will talk to you again soon.

Pod.  Don't engage her at all on this topic because she WILL.NOT.STOP.  I know from experience recently with my own sister.  I tried engaging a few years ago when she was going off the deep-end with her own amateur psycho-babble and JADEing, which didn't work.  I tried telling her I wouldn't discuss the topics any longer (this happened on more than one occasion).  Didn't work.  I tried changing the subject.  Kinda worked (changing the subject meant me replying like this, "La la la la la la la; Papa Smurf is my friend" because, at the time, she was flaming me on my FB wall when I made the "mistake" of posting that I was waiting at the pharmacy for a prescription).  I found the only thing to work was to refuse to address, period, what she insisted on discussing.  However, I know this also involves your daughter so I would focus on your relationship with your daughter and, maybe, explain to her why you weren't engaging your sister (well, maybe not, but do tell your daughter the positive things?  Not sure on this one).

My sister, after she also tried to get to me through DH (then DF), dropped out of our wedding because I refused to be engaged in her asinine behavior towards me (unbeknownst to her, that saved us about $300 and a lot of headache so she doesn't know she did us a favor).  It did cause some uncomfortable discussions with DH because he felt terrible about not acknowledging my sister, but I had to strongly argue that acknowledging her would mean that she wouldn't stop so he ignored her e-mails also.  Guess what?  It worked, and she stopped harassing DH and me.

I know you want to continue your relationship with this sister, but it sounds like it might cost you progress with your daughter.

[zyrs]

My advice would be to back off from relating to your sister for a while.  As you have said, you don't need the drama and right now it's just upsetting you without drawing either of you closer.

And it's fairly easy to do since you live far away from her.  Just be busy.  If she calls and you don't mind spending a little time on the phone with her tell her you only have a few minutes because you need to leave soon or are expecting a tradesperson or have something to do or an emergency.  If she starts on her 'clearing the air' thing say; "Sorry sis, got to go." and hang up.  If you don't want to talk to her at all just don't answer the phone.  Emails are the same way, answer them only when you want to.  Facebook - adjust your settings so she doesn't see anything but the stuff you want her to see.  If you want to, hide her feed.

It's not rude to be busy and unable to talk.

[Cami]

I understand you had a close relationship with your sister when you were younger, but trying to reconnect with her on the basis of the past is like trying to recoup a sunk cost (money/time/merchandise that has been used and cannot be gotten back). It can't really be done.

So I'd suggest looking at your sister as she IS. NOW. And consider whether or not your sister is someone who adds benefit to your life NOW.