Author Topic: Student Introductions/setting expecations for the course.  (Read 6239 times)

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snowdragon

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Re: Student Introductions/setting expecations for the course.
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2013, 12:45:39 AM »
In this class, will groups be assigned or do you get to pick who you work with?

If the latter, problem solved - you never have to work with her.

If the former, I just might drop a quick note to the prof and state that you and/or people you know have done group projects with her in previous classes, and you would be most appreciative if he didn't assign you to the same group as her.

 We can request to work with people, but the Prof said he does not necessarily honor them. I have already received an email from this student informing me that she requested me to work with. 

There are two other people that have been in classes with myself and this student. We have all submitted each other's names as a proposed group.  But again, no guarantees there.

 As far as treating this like a work situation, I would not carry someone continually in a job either - I would be handing their work back to them, and if necessary dealing with the boss on it, no one can ( or should) be forever doing someone else's job on top of their own - both jobs suffer like that.
 because of the advice to document all exchanges I have started a file on her, already.  I will keep copies of all interactions with her.

NyaChan

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Re: Student Introductions/setting expecations for the course.
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2013, 01:21:44 AM »
If the SS student has requested you, email the Professor and say that you would prefer not to be assigned to her merely because of her request.  Reference the post she made and explain that your previous experience with taking classes with her has taught you that this is not idle talk on her part. 

rashea

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Re: Student Introductions/setting expecations for the course.
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2013, 05:35:32 AM »
I think that email is the perfect opportunity to go to the professor. Just forward it with a copy of her post and say you would prefer not to be assigned together.
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jeni

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Re: Student Introductions/setting expecations for the course.
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2013, 07:36:58 AM »
Since she has requested to work with you, and you are allowed to nominate your preferences to your professor then I would definitely forward the email to the professor and state the reasons why you do not wish to be placed in a group with this person.

I also dislike the 'real world' excuse/example.  When I was studying as a mature age student, also working full time, I had to do a group project with others most of whom didn't do what they agreed to do, often either not turning up or falling asleep during the group work sessions (not kidding).  There is no way that would be tolerated in the 'real world'.  This was for a core unit which I simply could not afford to repeat from either a financial or time perspective, which of course meant additional work for me to ensure I was able to pass.

The whole unit was run poorly and the lecturer and tutors would not intervene.  The only positive thing was that peer evaluations were required and influenced the individual scores given.

Good luck snowdragon.   I'm glad to hear that you are already documenting all exchanges.

MindsEye

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Re: Student Introductions/setting expecations for the course.
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2013, 10:41:24 AM »
When I was in grad school I had a professor who liked to assign group projects, because that is how we would be working in the "real world".  In his favor, he allowed teams to deal with shirkers and free riders in the same way that they would be dealt with in the "real world".  If your team felt that you were shirking/free riding they could present their arguments/evidence to the professor, and if he agreed the team was allowed to expel the shirker/free rider.  And if you were the person expelled, you had to either find another team to join, or you had to complete the entire group project by yourself if no other team would accept you. 

Since then I felt that if professors had to assign group work, then this professor's model was the one to follow.

RingTailedLemur

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Re: Student Introductions/setting expecations for the course.
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2013, 10:47:24 AM »
I agree you need to take this to the professor.

She probably requested you because you've covered for her in the past.

IMO if you allow her to take credit for work she has not done, both she and you (and anyone else involved) could be guilty of academic misconduct.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 11:54:55 AM by RingTailedLemur »

TootsNYC

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Re: Student Introductions/setting expecations for the course.
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2013, 11:49:13 AM »
In this class, will groups be assigned or do you get to pick who you work with?

If the latter, problem solved - you never have to work with her.

If the former, I just might drop a quick note to the prof and state that you and/or people you know have done group projects with her in previous classes, and you would be most appreciative if he didn't assign you to the same group as her.

 We can request to work with people, but the Prof said he does not necessarily honor them. I have already received an email from this student informing me that she requested me to work with. 

There are two other people that have been in classes with myself and this student. We have all submitted each other's names as a proposed group.  But again, no guarantees there.

In this case, I would say that you should forward her email [the one about having requested to workwith you] to the professor and say, "I do not ever want to be assigned to work with this student. I've been in groups with her in other classes, and she was not reliable. [I'm not sure if you should give specifics; maybe offer to provide them if asked.] And given her email, which I've pasted below, I have every reason to believe that she will again be a hindrance that makes it difficult for me to learn. Please respect this request."

Keep a copy in your "sent" folder, or bcc yourself.

And if you get assigned to her, forward THAT email to whoever is over your professor's head. Immediately, not when the project is underway.

This is not work. You are PAYING for this education, paying for the opportunity to earn a grade, paying for the opportunity to LEARN about the SUBJECT (not about "life" or "the work world").

artk2002

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Re: Student Introductions/setting expecations for the course.
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2013, 12:26:17 PM »
I agree that since she's requested you as a partner, you should go to the professor and decline the "honor," citing her up front declaration of being a slacker and any past experience you might have had. That said, it's still possible that you'll end up with her on your team. Although I agree with others that school group work shouldn't be about dealing with slackers the way you would in the "real world," the reality is that it is. So, how would you deal with a slacker at your job, whom the boss refuses to fire or reassign? You first make sure that they aren't responsible for any critical item. Posters? Nope. Presentation? Nope. If you have to reduce her to "you can bring the cookies to the team meeting," then that's what you must do. It stinks, I know, but that is the reality. In doing that, by the way, I would let the professor know ahead of time how you plan to manage her and to document *everything*, including all of the meetings where she fails to bring cookies and brings her kid(s) instead.
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Morticia

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Re: Student Introductions/setting expecations for the course.
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2013, 12:29:00 PM »
In this class, will groups be assigned or do you get to pick who you work with?

If the latter, problem solved - you never have to work with her.

If the former, I just might drop a quick note to the prof and state that you and/or people you know have done group projects with her in previous classes, and you would be most appreciative if he didn't assign you to the same group as her.

 We can request to work with people, but the Prof said he does not necessarily honor them. I have already received an email from this student informing me that she requested me to work with. 

There are two other people that have been in classes with myself and this student. We have all submitted each other's names as a proposed group.  But again, no guarantees there.

 As far as treating this like a work situation, I would not carry someone continually in a job either - I would be handing their work back to them, and if necessary dealing with the boss on it, no one can ( or should) be forever doing someone else's job on top of their own - both jobs suffer like that.
 because of the advice to document all exchanges I have started a file on her, already.  I will keep copies of all interactions with her.

She actually said "work with"? I would be hard pressed not to respond to her with a comment about what a pleasant change that would be.
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CakeBeret

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Re: Student Introductions/setting expecations for the course.
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2013, 12:40:50 PM »
If you have to work with her, I would first of all put everything in writing. And second, assign her a task for each meeting. Document her failures, find someone else to get the work done, and then email the prof with all the documentation.

For example:
2/1: Mrs. Slacker, please bring a one-paragraph summary of OurProject to the meeting.
2/3: Mrs. Slacker, you did not bring the requested summary to the meeting. For our next meeting, please bring the summary plus your plans for a poster outlining X.
2/7: Mrs. Slacker, you did not attend the meeting, and we are missing your work on Paragraph and Poster Plan. Please ensure that you will contribute your part of this project. We are meeting again on 2/8; please attend and bring your components.
2/8: Mrs. Slacker, you again failed to attend the meeting and produce your contributions. If the group does not receive your contribution by the 2/10 meeting, we will address this matter with the Professor.

Also keep copies of all her emails.
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TootsNYC

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Re: Student Introductions/setting expecations for the course.
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2013, 12:50:16 PM »
If you have to work with her, I would first of all put everything in writing. And second, assign her a task for each meeting. Document her failures, find someone else to get the work done, and then email the prof with all the documentation.

For example:
2/1: Mrs. Slacker, please bring a one-paragraph summary of OurProject to the meeting.
2/3: Mrs. Slacker, you did not bring the requested summary to the meeting. For our next meeting, please bring the summary plus your plans for a poster outlining X.
2/7: Mrs. Slacker, you did not attend the meeting, and we are missing your work on Paragraph and Poster Plan. Please ensure that you will contribute your part of this project. We have addressed this matter with the Professor. We are meeting again on 2/8; please attend and bring your components.
2/8: Mrs. Slacker, you again failed to attend the meeting and produce your contributions. If the group does not receive your contribution by the 2/10 meeting, we will address this matter with the Professor.

Also keep copies of all her emails.

And yes, don't let her be in charge of anything important. Even if it means you all get a great grade, even her. Look out for yourself; don't sacrifice your learning or your eventual grade just to achieve justice.

johelenc1

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Re: Student Introductions/setting expecations for the course.
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2013, 01:10:45 PM »
I think you should absolutely address this with the student asap.  I liked the email a number of posts back that calls her out on even daring to make the request that everyone cover her bum.  The whole thing is just ridiculous including her "refuse to answer" answers to the PROFESSORS questions.  She clearly has no respect for anyone. 

I would make it very clear that I didn't appreciate her email and would NOT be carrying her slack in any way.  I would also reply all.  She made her request public; there's no reason your reply can't be as well.

I would email the professor asking if he/she saw Slacker's response and state that you don't want to work with her in any way.  You could also add that you felt her "request" to be unethical and insulting - because it is.

I would not let this student get away with this behavior any more.  It's horrific it's been allowed to go on this long.  She has publicly put her self out there for correction and now it's time for someone to stand up and call her out.

bopper

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Re: Student Introductions/setting expecations for the course.
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2013, 01:52:27 PM »
Not a college thing, but my daughter went to a small international school. There was this annoying boy who would constantly disrupt class and really made it frustrating for her to learn.  For her last year there, I requested that she NOT be placed with this boy (there were two classes per grade) and that if possible she be placed with a particular friend. She did not get her wish of getting her friend in her class, but she did get her wish of not being with this boy. 

I think I would write to the professor and say that Moochette has requested you be in her group, but you will not be in a group with her due to past experiences of having to pick up her slack as well as <quote her post here>.  You do not think her capable of doing graduate level work.  If possbible you would like to be with <the other people you know.

blarg314

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Re: Student Introductions/setting expecations for the course.
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2013, 06:59:43 PM »

If she's trying to request you as a partner, you definitely need to email the professor and clearly state that under no circumstances do you want to work with this person, and why (dropping out of contact, refusing to do her work group projects and leaving you in the lurch, not showing up for projects).  Personally, I'd go so far as to get my other requested group members (the ones who have already send emails to the prof asking for you) to also email stating that they don't want to work with her.

Otherwise there's a good chance that the professor will look at her email, assume it's a reasonable request, and add her to your group.



pickles50

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Re: Student Introductions/setting expecations for the course.
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2013, 10:27:22 PM »
I would go to the Prof ASAP. Grad school is a big majority about how you handle the work environment in the real word. When there is a problem you need to let the prof/boss know asap so they can rectify the situation as fast as possible. Delaying this just causes more problems, no point in dragging on the inevitable. If you speak later who knows she might throw all of you under the bus first...