General Etiquette > Life...in general

Upstairs/Downstairs Neighbor Conflict (long)

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Penguin_ar:
Does your lease say anything about garden usage?  I used to live in a couple of similar properties and both of them mentioned yard usage (and maintenance) in the lase, usually the front yard for the 1st floor neighbour and the back for the 2nd floor, but with both having right of day through the other neighbour's yard for trash/ getting in the door etc.  Even if there is nothing specified, maybe you can suggest such an arrangement to Kevin- it may suit him to have use of the front yard only, and being able to let his dog roam there rather than chained to the backstep, and you'd have the backyard- a little more inconvenient, but then free of  dog poop and you can chain the bbq to the backstep where the dog is now chained.

TootsNYC:
One problem with that is that the upstairs tenant does not have direct access to the backyard--they have to go around the entire building. And they'd have to walk through dog-poop territory (which is why they don't use the backyard now).

The other problem was a lack of bushes to shield the grill from nefarious eyes, because the chain wouldn't be enough to stop someone from stealing it--if I understood the OP correctly. That can be taken care of if anyone could make an enclosure from plywood or solid fencing panels, the way people sometimes make trash-can enclosures.

Mark can minimize the trips up and down (and the disruption that accompanies them) by planning better and by stashing some of the equipment, etc., in the downstairs hallway. He can get a larger container to use to take everything downstairs (we have a patio at our apt bldg that we like to eat in, and it's easier on US when we do these things).

And he can be sure not to let the door slam behind him on trips up and down.

And he should do any of these sorts of things that are *possible*--but given that the backyard is not that accessible, I believe he's fine to use the front as long as he moves the grill as far as he can out of view of the windows while he's working.

cheyne:
Kevin is a special snowflake.  He's been living there for 3 years and is only bringing this up now?  Unless Max is flinging blood soaked meat into the vestibule, Kevin is way out of line with the "dead meat" comment. 

I really can't see a way to compromise on this.  Max can't use the back yard due to Kevin's dog and nowhere to chain the grill.  Compounding this is that Max does all the yard work and has a right to enjoy the fruits of his labors.

Max has permission to cook meat on a grill if he so desires (the landlord has backed this up).  So I think that Kevin is going to have to suck it up and deal.  Perhaps Max could try and make fewer trips up and down the stairs? 

OP, how do you and Max get along with Kevin in general?  Would this issue be able to be resolved over a glass of wine?  Has there been some contention between the two of them on other issues in the past 3 years?

JoieGirl7:
I don't really see why Max would need to minimize his trips up and down the stairs.  That's the egress to his apartment and cooking out on the grill is a reasonable use of the property he has rented.

As far as whether or not his meat is covered, also, its no one else's business.  If Kevin doesn't like it he doesn't have to stand in the hallway while Max walks by.

camlan:

--- Quote from: Audrey Quest on February 01, 2013, 05:59:36 PM ---I don't really see why Max would need to minimize his trips up and down the stairs.  That's the egress to his apartment and cooking out on the grill is a reasonable use of the property he has rented.

As far as whether or not his meat is covered, also, its no one else's business.  If Kevin doesn't like it he doesn't have to stand in the hallway while Max walks by.

--- End quote ---

I don't think Max has to cut out his trips up and down the stairs, but I do think he should minimize the impact of those trips on Kevin.

There's necessary noises of daily living--people walk on their floors, flush the toilet, run the dishwasher, watch TV, talk, etc. You can't really complain about them, because there's nothing anyone can do about them. And there are the noises that can be controlled to some extent--slamming doors, loud volumes on TVs and stereos, yelling, wearing hardsoled shoes indoors. Those noises are far more irritating, because you know they can be controlled, but the other tenants simply don't care to.

It's possible that the stairs are carpeted and Kevin hears nothing when people are walking up and down stairs, and that the front door closes silently, instead of banging shut, and that Max never talks loudly enough to be heard in Kevin's apartment.

But I'll bet the reality is that Kevin can hear footsteps and the door shutting and Max talking on the stairs or out on the front lawn. In a shared living situation like this, I think the polite thing to do is to minimize the impact these normal noises of daily living have on the occupants of the other units in your building.

For example, due to some medical issues, I have to wear shoes all the time. I also have downstairs neighbors. So I wear Keds in the house, which don't make noise when I walk, and I have area rugs down over most of the floors. I use headphones when I watch TV, because I like to turn the volume up. I'm very careful how I shut the outside doors early in the morning or late in the evening, because someone could be asleep. I don't slam the doors, ever, unlike the downstairs people who slam, slam, slam all day long.

So if Max is disturbing Kevin with every trip up and down the stairs, while he doesn't *have* to do anything, it would be polite and neighborly to reduce the number of trips if possible, and to do everything else possible to reduce the noise associated with the trips.

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