Author Topic: At the grocery with my 2-year old  (Read 10134 times)

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Millionaire Maria

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Re: At the grocery with my 2-year old
« Reply #105 on: January 31, 2013, 01:45:45 PM »
True.  However, a two year old doesn't look both ways when they dart across aisles, is way below eye level for most people, and doesn't walk in a straight line making them difficult for most people to see.  Add to that carts full of groceries which may totally obstruct the view of a small child.

I don't think that's true at all. I have a 21 month old, so I'm quite familiar with how big a two year old is. They are not difficult to see. The OP's son is not running, moving quickly, or darting across isles. He is moving at a normal pace and if other shoppers fail to see him it is because they are not paying attention.

I pay attention, but mostly to eye level.  A child that is shorter then the cart, which is about 3 feet high, is not easy to see.  They just aren't.  If my cart is full I can't see through it and therefore anything - person or object - that is shorter then the cart and in front of the cart is totally out of my sight line.  Yes I need to pay attention but its absolutely absurd to think I should stand on tip toes to get a better angle at looking over the front of my cart to the floor directly in front of it.

I just don't understand this. Of course it's absurd to think that. But that's not what is happening. The only blind spot on a shopping cart is directly in front of it, so the only way to miss something going into your blind spot is if you are not looking forward. That's not a problem if your cart isn't moving, but in that case, you wouldn't hit the child anyway. If your cart is moving forward, and you aren't watching the front of it, then you are not watching where you are going.

And let's not lose sight of what is actually happening here. There is no toddler running around the store, darting out from the isles, and toppling displays. This is a small child, walking at a normal pace, beside his mother, and occasionally veering off by a few feet.
People everywhere enjoy believing in things they know are not true. It spares them the ordeal of thinking for themselves and taking responsibility for what they know. –Brooks Atkinson

DottyG

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Re: At the grocery with my 2-year old
« Reply #106 on: January 31, 2013, 01:46:16 PM »
Dandy Andy's Daddy's Love, I do understand what you're getting at.  I do.

But can we at least agree that the child's holding onto the cart is a good idea?  That that might remedy a lot of the problems right now and keep both the child and the other shoppers safe?

Millionaire Maria

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Re: At the grocery with my 2-year old
« Reply #107 on: January 31, 2013, 01:47:41 PM »
Dandy Andy's Daddy's Love, I do understand what you're getting at.  I do.

But can we at least agree that the child's holding onto the cart is a good idea?  That that might remedy a lot of the problems right now and keep both the child and the other shoppers safe?

Yes, I can agree with that.
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snowdragon

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Re: At the grocery with my 2-year old
« Reply #108 on: January 31, 2013, 01:47:58 PM »
True.  However, a two year old doesn't look both ways when they dart across aisles, is way below eye level for most people, and doesn't walk in a straight line making them difficult for most people to see.  Add to that carts full of groceries which may totally obstruct the view of a small child.

I don't think that's true at all. I have a 21 month old, so I'm quite familiar with how big a two year old is. They are not difficult to see. The OP's son is not running, moving quickly, or darting across isles. He is moving at a normal pace and if other shoppers fail to see him it is because they are not paying attention.


  I am an adult - I have just graduated to being able to walk a store after months of therapy.  As an adult in a motorized cart, I was often difficult to see in a grocery store.  My head came to the top of the handle bar on the cart - and there were still times that I almost got hit because People , were not able to see me because the display was too big or at the intersection of two aisles and so forth.  Yes, it was absolutely my responsibility to make sure I was being uberwatchful for everyone and everything around me and I don't move unpredictably, change direction on a dime or suddenly stop - those things are notoriously hard to stop.- if the kid is not capable of watching for themselves - then they need to be under the parent's control. 
  Everyone needs to watch out while shopping - that includes adults with or with out kids present and it includes the kids themselves. But if  the kid is too young to watch out for himself it falls to the parent to be that much more vigilant because of it.  Keeping him beside you is the safe and polite thing to do.  I am honestly surprised that the adults in this situation are not glaring at the pair or saying some to the OP along the lines of "you watch out yourselves!" or some such...she must shop with a very tolerant bunch of people
 

Emmy

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Re: At the grocery with my 2-year old
« Reply #109 on: January 31, 2013, 01:49:57 PM »
True.  However, a two year old doesn't look both ways when they dart across aisles, is way below eye level for most people, and doesn't walk in a straight line making them difficult for most people to see.  Add to that carts full of groceries which may totally obstruct the view of a small child.

I don't think that's true at all. I have a 21 month old, so I'm quite familiar with how big a two year old is. They are not difficult to see. The OP's son is not running, moving quickly, or darting across isles. He is moving at a normal pace and if other shoppers fail to see him it is because they are not paying attention.

Well when somebody comes up to below your waist, you literally have to look down to see them when they are a few feet in front of you.  Several times, a young child (bigger than a toddler) strayed in my path and I had a near collision because I couldn't see them.  If they happen to be in front of your cart that is full, it would be nearly impossible to see them.  Are you saying you walk around looking at the ground or you look in front of your cart when stopped before moving it each and every time in case a toddler is in your way?

Millionaire Maria

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Re: At the grocery with my 2-year old
« Reply #110 on: January 31, 2013, 01:53:15 PM »
Small children absolutely are difficult to see and move unpredictably. I do not want to spend my shopping trip watching out for them. I want to do my shopping. I expect parents to keep their children safe.

Whether or not you want to do it is irrelevent. As per etiquette, you are obligated to do it. There are a great many people in this world. A lot of them are short. You don't get to not watch out for them just because they are slightly harder to see. That's part of being a polite member of society.

As per etiquette, you should not let your child wander into the paths of others. Will it happen occasionally? Absolutely, but per etiquette you need to take steps to prevent your child, who you are solely responsible for, from bumping into others. I pay a great deal of attention to where I'm going in the store, but by virtue of actually, you know, shopping, my eyes are frequently going between my list and the shelves.

Which is exactly what the OP is doing when she tells her son to "watch out".

Posters keep saying that the OP is rude because she is allowing him to walk into other people. She's not. She is preventing him from walking into other people. That's what the entire thread is about. She may not be doing it in the way that other posters think is ideal, but to say that she isn't doing it all is inaccurate and extremely uncharitable.

Of course your eyes are going from the shelf to your list and back again. And as long as that is happening when your cart is stationary, you don't run the risk of hitting anyone.
People everywhere enjoy believing in things they know are not true. It spares them the ordeal of thinking for themselves and taking responsibility for what they know. –Brooks Atkinson

WillyNilly

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Re: At the grocery with my 2-year old
« Reply #111 on: January 31, 2013, 01:53:53 PM »
There are always children in the grocery store. It makes no sense to not be just as aware of them as the adults.

Not really - I don't remember the last time I saw a child in the grocery store.

Me either... well no I do see them, just not very small children who are walking.  I see 10+ year olds often and I see small kids in carts often. A wandering toddler is not the norm by any means though in my grocery shopping experiences.

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I just don't understand this. Of course it's absurd to think that. But that's not what is happening. The only blind spot on a shopping cart is directly in front of it, so the only way to miss something going into your blind spot is if you are not looking forward. That's not a problem if your cart isn't moving, but in that case, you wouldn't hit the child anyway. If your cart is moving forward, and you aren't watching the front of it, then you are not watching where you are going.

And let's not lose sight of what is actually happening here. There is no toddler running around the store, darting out from the isles, and toppling displays. This is a small child, walking at a normal pace, beside his mother, and occasionally veering off by a few feet.

I don't know how you shop, but I stop my cart several times as I'm walking down the aisles, to you know, shop - take things off the shelves, compare prices, read ingredients & nutrition facts, etc.  So if a small child is wandering - even at a slow pace - and steps in front of my cart, they are directly in my blind spot and likely to get hit by my cart as I move forward because I'm not looking down directly in front of my cart, towards the floor, before I start moving again, only straight forward.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 01:56:24 PM by WillyNilly »

Tabby Uprising

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Re: At the grocery with my 2-year old
« Reply #112 on: January 31, 2013, 01:54:16 PM »
True.  However, a two year old doesn't look both ways when they dart across aisles, is way below eye level for most people, and doesn't walk in a straight line making them difficult for most people to see.  Add to that carts full of groceries which may totally obstruct the view of a small child.

I don't think that's true at all. I have a 21 month old, so I'm quite familiar with how big a two year old is. They are not difficult to see. The OP's son is not running, moving quickly, or darting across isles. He is moving at a normal pace and if other shoppers fail to see him it is because they are not paying attention.


  I am an adult - I have just graduated to being able to walk a store after months of therapy.  As an adult in a motorized cart, I was often difficult to see in a grocery store.  My head came to the top of the handle bar on the cart - and there were still times that I almost got hit because People , were not able to see me because the display was too big or at the intersection of two aisles and so forth.  Yes, it was absolutely my responsibility to make sure I was being uberwatchful for everyone and everything around me and I don't move unpredictably, change direction on a dime or suddenly stop - those things are notoriously hard to stop.- if the kid is not capable of watching for themselves - then they need to be under the parent's control. 
  Everyone needs to watch out while shopping - that includes adults with or with out kids present and it includes the kids themselves. But if  the kid is too young to watch out for himself it falls to the parent to be that much more vigilant because of it.  Keeping him beside you is the safe and polite thing to do.  I am honestly surprised that the adults in this situation are not glaring at the pair or saying some to the OP along the lines of "you watch out yourselves!" or some such...she must shop with a very tolerant bunch of people
 

But the OP is telling her son to "watch out" and she will then tell explain to the other shoppers she was talking to her son.  She's not telling other shoppers to "watch out". 

If a parent told her 2 year old to get out of my way while I was in the store, I wouldn't think it necessary to glare and snap "watch out yourselves" on top of that exchange.  No harm was done. 

mich3554

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Re: At the grocery with my 2-year old
« Reply #113 on: January 31, 2013, 01:56:04 PM »
I've never experienced this. If that is the case I will concede that what the OP's son is doing could be irritating. I still am not convinced that a person being short makes them more responsible to watch where they are going than other people. There are always children in the grocery store. It makes no sense to not be just as aware of them as the adults.

A free range toddler does not tend to move in patterns.

A few years ago, I was at an amusement park.  There was a toddler running at me, so I moved right so I'd was out of her path.  The child moved into my path.  So I moved again and again the child moved in the same direction I moved in.  Since I could not predict the child's movements, I just stopped and stepped aside, out of her current path.

Said toddler still ran smack into my legs and wound up on her tush, crying.  She ran into me, I was not moving and did not walk into her.  But *I* was at fault according to the parent and was told to "WATCH OUT".  I WAS watching out, and did what I could to avoid a collision. 

Add a shopping cart and a distracted shopper and the OP's child *could* wind up injured.  Carts (especially full ones) do not stop on a dime.

ettiquit

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Re: At the grocery with my 2-year old
« Reply #114 on: January 31, 2013, 01:57:11 PM »
OP, near as I can tell, your only question to the board was to ask the best way to alert your son that he needs to look out and not appear to be rude to other shoppers.

I think the "watch out" is fine, but I would definitely always apologize to the shopper.  You could also try just saying your son's name to get his attention, and then there would be no doubt to other shoppers that you're not talking to them.  I really like Toots "stop your feet" game too.  Maybe you can just experiment with a few phrases and see what your son is most responsive to, and make sure to apologize if there are any near collisions. 

I'm trying to remember how old my DS was when I was finally able to get him to help me shop, and I think it was a little older than 2.  So maybe soon you'll have a good distraction for him.


Millionaire Maria

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Re: At the grocery with my 2-year old
« Reply #115 on: January 31, 2013, 01:59:06 PM »
True.  However, a two year old doesn't look both ways when they dart across aisles, is way below eye level for most people, and doesn't walk in a straight line making them difficult for most people to see.  Add to that carts full of groceries which may totally obstruct the view of a small child.

I don't think that's true at all. I have a 21 month old, so I'm quite familiar with how big a two year old is. They are not difficult to see. The OP's son is not running, moving quickly, or darting across isles. He is moving at a normal pace and if other shoppers fail to see him it is because they are not paying attention.

Well when somebody comes up to below your waist, you literally have to look down to see them when they are a few feet in front of you.  Several times, a young child (bigger than a toddler) strayed in my path and I had a near collision because I couldn't see them.  If they happen to be in front of your cart that is full, it would be nearly impossible to see them.  Are you saying you walk around looking at the ground or you look in front of your cart when stopped before moving it each and every time in case a toddler is in your way?

Of course I don't. That's ridiculous. But children don't apparate into blind spots. When I push my cart around the grocery store, I look forward. I'd be able to see the child before they got in front of my cart. And the OP's son is not standing in front of stationary carts.
People everywhere enjoy believing in things they know are not true. It spares them the ordeal of thinking for themselves and taking responsibility for what they know. –Brooks Atkinson

Millionaire Maria

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Re: At the grocery with my 2-year old
« Reply #116 on: January 31, 2013, 02:03:23 PM »
I've never experienced this. If that is the case I will concede that what the OP's son is doing could be irritating. I still am not convinced that a person being short makes them more responsible to watch where they are going than other people. There are always children in the grocery store. It makes no sense to not be just as aware of them as the adults.

A free range toddler does not tend to move in patterns.

A few years ago, I was at an amusement park.  There was a toddler running at me, so I moved right so I'd was out of her path.  The child moved into my path.  So I moved again and again the child moved in the same direction I moved in.  Since I could not predict the child's movements, I just stopped and stepped aside, out of her current path.

Said toddler still ran smack into my legs and wound up on her tush, crying.  She ran into me, I was not moving and did not walk into her.  But *I* was at fault according to the parent and was told to "WATCH OUT".  I WAS watching out, and did what I could to avoid a collision. 

Add a shopping cart and a distracted shopper and the OP's child *could* wind up injured.  Carts (especially full ones) do not stop on a dime.

This situation is completely different. The OP is redirecting her child. Her child won't wind up injured because she is looking out for him.
People everywhere enjoy believing in things they know are not true. It spares them the ordeal of thinking for themselves and taking responsibility for what they know. –Brooks Atkinson

Moray

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Re: At the grocery with my 2-year old
« Reply #117 on: January 31, 2013, 02:06:43 PM »
I've never experienced this. If that is the case I will concede that what the OP's son is doing could be irritating. I still am not convinced that a person being short makes them more responsible to watch where they are going than other people. There are always children in the grocery store. It makes no sense to not be just as aware of them as the adults.

A free range toddler does not tend to move in patterns.

A few years ago, I was at an amusement park.  There was a toddler running at me, so I moved right so I'd was out of her path.  The child moved into my path.  So I moved again and again the child moved in the same direction I moved in.  Since I could not predict the child's movements, I just stopped and stepped aside, out of her current path.

Said toddler still ran smack into my legs and wound up on her tush, crying.  She ran into me, I was not moving and did not walk into her.  But *I* was at fault according to the parent and was told to "WATCH OUT".  I WAS watching out, and did what I could to avoid a collision. 

Add a shopping cart and a distracted shopper and the OP's child *could* wind up injured.  Carts (especially full ones) do not stop on a dime.

This situation is completely different. The OP is redirecting her child. Her child won't wind up injured because she is looking out for him.

No, she's calling out "Watch out!" which may or may not be interpreted by the toddler as applying to him, and if he does determine it applies to him, it may be ignored. More to the point, because the toddler is wandering, and shygirl is shopping, she is physically incapable of keeping an eye on him every single second. Like the other shoppers, she has to look at the shelves and her list, and that gives Jr. an opportunity to wander in front of a stopped cart, around a blind corner, or even make a break for it and end up several aisles over.
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LeveeWoman

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Re: At the grocery with my 2-year old
« Reply #118 on: January 31, 2013, 02:08:22 PM »
Small children absolutely are difficult to see and move unpredictably. I do not want to spend my shopping trip watching out for them. I want to do my shopping. I expect parents to keep their children safe.

Whether or not you want to do it is irrelevent. As per etiquette, you are obligated to do it. There are a great many people in this world. A lot of them are short. You don't get to not watch out for them just because they are slightly harder to see. That's part of being a polite member of society.

As per etiquette, you should not let your child wander into the paths of others. Will it happen occasionally? Absolutely, but per etiquette you need to take steps to prevent your child, who you are solely responsible for, from bumping into others. I pay a great deal of attention to where I'm going in the store, but by virtue of actually, you know, shopping, my eyes are frequently going between my list and the shelves.

Which is exactly what the OP is doing when she tells her son to "watch out".

Posters keep saying that the OP is rude because she is allowing him to walk into other people. She's not. She is preventing him from walking into other people. That's what the entire thread is about. She may not be doing it in the way that other posters think is ideal, but to say that she isn't doing it all is inaccurate and extremely uncharitable.

Of course your eyes are going from the shelf to your list and back again. And as long as that is happening when your cart is stationary, you don't run the risk of hitting anyone.

When I'm moving, I cannot see directly in front of me due to where I place my purse on which I prop the notebook containing my list. Nor can I see if my cart is full if I have a tall object in it. And, while I'm moving, I'm also looking at the goods on the shelves.

It is quite conceivable that a toddler could be in front of me while I'm moving and I wouldn't see him. It is also concievable that a toddler could be in front of me while I'm stopped and about to start moving again. There is no way I can move my purse and clear my cart of the objects it holds every time I start walking again.

It is the parent's job to keep her kid out of harm's way.

If I heard a parent call, "Watch out!" while I'm moving or about to move again, I would think she or he is talking to me because I would not see the child to whom this is addressed, and it would irritate me.

LeveeWoman

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Re: At the grocery with my 2-year old
« Reply #119 on: January 31, 2013, 02:10:55 PM »
I've never experienced this. If that is the case I will concede that what the OP's son is doing could be irritating. I still am not convinced that a person being short makes them more responsible to watch where they are going than other people. There are always children in the grocery store. It makes no sense to not be just as aware of them as the adults.

A free range toddler does not tend to move in patterns.

A few years ago, I was at an amusement park.  There was a toddler running at me, so I moved right so I'd was out of her path.  The child moved into my path.  So I moved again and again the child moved in the same direction I moved in.  Since I could not predict the child's movements, I just stopped and stepped aside, out of her current path.

Said toddler still ran smack into my legs and wound up on her tush, crying.  She ran into me, I was not moving and did not walk into her.  But *I* was at fault according to the parent and was told to "WATCH OUT".  I WAS watching out, and did what I could to avoid a collision. 

Add a shopping cart and a distracted shopper and the OP's child *could* wind up injured.  Carts (especially full ones) do not stop on a dime.

This situation is completely different. The OP is redirecting her child. Her child won't wind up injured because she is looking out for him.

A shopper could come along in a split second before shygirl calls to her son, and knock him down, or in the case of someone with mobility issues, be knocked down by  him. Redirecting is one thing. Physical control over a toddler is another.