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### Author Topic: S/O PD Student Darwinism  (Read 868930 times)

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#### jedikaiti

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##### Re: S/O PD Student Darwinism
« Reply #105 on: February 05, 2013, 11:57:30 AM »
OK, I have to ask... if Jared was doing so well to begin with, and there were no prior indications of cheating, why the sudden urge to cheat?
What part of v_e = \sqrt{\frac{2GM}{r}} don't you understand? It's only rocket science!

"The problem with re-examining your brilliant ideas is that more often than not, you discover they are the intellectual equivalent of saying, 'Hold my beer and watch this!'" - Cindy Couture

#### Sebastienne

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##### Re: S/O PD Student Darwinism
« Reply #106 on: February 05, 2013, 12:06:02 PM »
He said he did it because he was super-stressed, terrified of the exam, and he didn't want to lose his scholarship. But I suspect, knowing what I know now, that he'd been cheating all along and just hadn't been caught. You can get pretty far if you're a decent writer, which he was (and he didn't plagiarize; the essays for this class were...unique, and I did go back and check).

#### jedikaiti

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##### Re: S/O PD Student Darwinism
« Reply #107 on: February 05, 2013, 12:08:47 PM »
Well, so much for that scholarship!
What part of v_e = \sqrt{\frac{2GM}{r}} don't you understand? It's only rocket science!

"The problem with re-examining your brilliant ideas is that more often than not, you discover they are the intellectual equivalent of saying, 'Hold my beer and watch this!'" - Cindy Couture

#### Sebastienne

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##### Re: S/O PD Student Darwinism
« Reply #108 on: February 05, 2013, 12:11:57 PM »
At least his parents weren't paying the $30K/year tuition completely out of pocket! #### Twik • Member • Posts: 29026 ##### Re: S/O PD Student Darwinism « Reply #109 on: February 05, 2013, 12:18:48 PM » I've taught at a community college for 6 years, beginning when I was still a nurse and continuing through seminary. I actually teach both surgical technicians and general studies folks. My first semester teaching I had a girl who admitted she had problems reading and writing. She was in all prep classes except for my Healthcare Law and Ethics class. The was not an ESL student, but someone with an American high school diploma She failed quiz after written quiz- but could get perfect scores if she could have stuff read to her and say the answers- I knew she was in deep doo for the 20 page paper I had them do. She didn't turn in the outline, and the rough draft was an F- her subject was abortion law, and her actual first sentance began:" If ladie no go want baby, she's not go sex" I get her final paper emailed to me the day it was due- a gorgeous 20 pages, perfect A work on her subject- and with the email from the actual writer still attached and forwarded right along with the paper... "Dear (student), hope this was what you needed. You owe me$50 Tuesday. Thanks, (writer's name)"

Needless to say the student failed the class.

This student was not right in what they did, but I am quite shocked that they were not given any consideration, or tested for an LD with the circumstances that you have written BEFORE they resorted to cheating.

I agree. This sounds almost textbook presentation of an intelligent student with a severe learning disability. She could probably, with proper management of her disability, be an excellent student.

Ironically, she probably left the note on because she couldn't read it well enough to understand the implications.

#### alkira6

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• Posts: 655
##### Re: S/O PD Student Darwinism
« Reply #110 on: February 05, 2013, 12:21:34 PM »
I have a student like this now. His writing looks like he is using a code that only he knows.  His IEP (Individual Education Plan) allows him to take tests with both a reader and a transcriber, with a proctor to make sure everything is on the up and up.  His problem is severe.

#### DottyG

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##### Re: S/O PD Student Darwinism
« Reply #111 on: February 05, 2013, 12:56:47 PM »
Been debating on whether to tell my own story.  I guess I will.

I am not a morning person.  I have never been a morning person.  I do not ever wish to be a morning person.

Therefore, I purposefully scheduled my college classes accordingly.  After 12 years of having to get up early for school, I was finally able to have some control over when I started classes.  Mine didn't start until at least 9, if not later.  It was wonderful.

However, because Finals Week is a mass of finals for everyone, I did end up having an early morning Religion final.

I set my alarm.  I told my roommate to wake me if she saw I wasn't awake (not her job, but I asked as a favor).  I did everything in my power to wake up on time.........and didn't.  I woke up at least an hour into the two hour final time.

To this day, I have no clue what I was wearing as I raced across the campus to get to class.  I'm hoping I had something on that wasn't too revealing, but who knows.  I just had to get to that class.

When I walked in, everyone was gone - apparently, the final didn't take the full 2 hours.  But the professor was still at the front of the room.  He looked at me and said, "So.  You finally decided to show up."  I was mortified.  And I should have failed the class right there.  But, he was a nice man, I had never been a problem student, and he took pity on me.  He told me to sit down and start the test.

Partway through the test, he said he needed to go do some stuff in his office, so would I mind coming with him and finishing up in the room just outside his office?  He left me in this little room, FILLED with Bibles and Biblical reference materials and went into his office while I finished.  Had I been an untrustworthy person, that would have been the perfect opportunity to have the Book with all the answers right there!  But I'm not that kind of person.  It has always made me feel good, though, to realize that he knew that, too.  He put the perfect temptation in front of me and knew that I'd be safe with it.

For many reasons, he was always one of my favorite professors.

#### MommyPenguin

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• Posts: 4132
##### Re: S/O PD Student Darwinism
« Reply #112 on: February 05, 2013, 01:02:01 PM »
When I was in high school, we had a teacher who had no classroom management skills (or teaching skills, really, for that matter).  He taught physics.  The girls who played lacrosse and wore their short skirts to school sat in the front row and got lots of attention (I have no idea whether that affected their grades).  The smart kids (including myself in that group ) sat in the back and figured stuff out together, and actually taught each other physics by figuring it out on our own from the book.  He'd put the answers on the board, so if we couldn't get that answer normally, we'd work backwards from the answer, figure it out, then try a few other problems of the same type to see if the method worked.  Whoever figured it out first would explain how to do that sort of problem to any others who hadn't followed yet.  Same with any other concept--I remember my friend explaining the right-hand rule to me when I could not get it, even after I asked the teacher.

There was one guy, though, who would sit with the textbook on his lap under the desk during exams and cheat like crazy.  We'd complain, but the teacher didn't feel like doing anything about it.  It drove us all CRAZY that he could do that and get away with it.  And me, especially, as he and I were in competition for salutatorian.  <sigh>

Another teacher was a favorite, as he was really funny and silly in class, although his students didn't end up learning all that much compared to other teachers.  He got in major professional Darwinism a few years after I graduated when he had a small fire in his house.  When the firemen came in to deal with the fire, they observed his collection of... inappropriate child pictures.
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#### Lynn2000

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• Posts: 8322
##### Re: S/O PD Student Darwinism
« Reply #113 on: February 05, 2013, 01:20:02 PM »
Here's an odd thing that happened to me when I was 10 or 11, that must have looked very weird/suspicious to other people; it seems pretty weird to me looking back on it as an adult. It was almost time to hand in some homework, so I got the worksheet out and put it on my desk. Then I went off to do something else for a couple minutes, and when I came back the paper was gone. It wasn't on the floor or anything, so the conclusion seemed to be that someone had stolen it. I explained this to the teacher and he felt the same way; I was a straight-A student and never any trouble, so he didn't mark me down for missing the assignment and even gave the class an impromptu lecture on stealing/cheating. I told my parents about it when I got home, and they worried that some of the other students were trying to bully or sabotage me. Then when I was getting ready the next morning, I found the worksheet there at home. It was confusing because it was very unlike me to forget work at home, and I had been certain the worksheet I'd put out on my desk had been this one (though most worksheets do superficially look alike). My parents told me to just turn it into the teacher and explain that I'd found it at home, which I did, and nothing happened--he didn't take off any points for lateness or anything. I just kept thinking, but there had been a piece of paper on my desk, and someone must have taken it...

But it could have been very suspicious--I forget my work at home, say, so I make up a story about it being "stolen" to buy time, then... shoot my plan in the foot by turning it in later? Anyway, I think teachers must become adept at recognizing when a student is being sincere, even if their story doesn't make any sense.

Another teacher was a favorite, as he was really funny and silly in class, although his students didn't end up learning all that much compared to other teachers.  He got in major professional Darwinism a few years after I graduated when he had a small fire in his house.  When the firemen came in to deal with the fire, they observed his collection of... inappropriate child pictures.

Yipe! Didn't something like that happen in Donnie Darko?
~Lynn2000

#### alkira6

• Member
• Posts: 655
##### Re: S/O PD Student Darwinism
« Reply #114 on: February 05, 2013, 01:32:03 PM »
Here's an odd thing that happened to me when I was 10 or 11, that must have looked very weird/suspicious to other people; it seems pretty weird to me looking back on it as an adult. It was almost time to hand in some homework, so I got the worksheet out and put it on my desk. Then I went off to do something else for a couple minutes, and when I came back the paper was gone. It wasn't on the floor or anything, so the conclusion seemed to be that someone had stolen it. I explained this to the teacher and he felt the same way; I was a straight-A student and never any trouble, so he didn't mark me down for missing the assignment and even gave the class an impromptu lecture on stealing/cheating. I told my parents about it when I got home, and they worried that some of the other students were trying to bully or sabotage me. Then when I was getting ready the next morning, I found the worksheet there at home. It was confusing because it was very unlike me to forget work at home, and I had been certain the worksheet I'd put out on my desk had been this one (though most worksheets do superficially look alike). My parents told me to just turn it into the teacher and explain that I'd found it at home, which I did, and nothing happened--he didn't take off any points for lateness or anything. I just kept thinking, but there had been a piece of paper on my desk, and someone must have taken it...

But it could have been very suspicious--I forget my work at home, say, so I make up a story about it being "stolen" to buy time, then... shoot my plan in the foot by turning it in later? Anyway, I think teachers must become adept at recognizing when a student is being sincere, even if their story doesn't make any sense.

Another teacher was a favorite, as he was really funny and silly in class, although his students didn't end up learning all that much compared to other teachers.  He got in major professional Darwinism a few years after I graduated when he had a small fire in his house.  When the firemen came in to deal with the fire, they observed his collection of... inappropriate child pictures.

Yipe! Didn't something like that happen in Donnie Darko?

Real life does follow the movies sometimes - about 20 years ago a teacher in my town was caught with printed material because of a fire in his home office. Sadly, no one was surprised.

#### Lynn2000

• Member
• Posts: 8322
##### Re: S/O PD Student Darwinism
« Reply #115 on: February 05, 2013, 01:42:31 PM »
Another teacher was a favorite, as he was really funny and silly in class, although his students didn't end up learning all that much compared to other teachers.  He got in major professional Darwinism a few years after I graduated when he had a small fire in his house.  When the firemen came in to deal with the fire, they observed his collection of... inappropriate child pictures.

Yipe! Didn't something like that happen in Donnie Darko?

Real life does follow the movies sometimes - about 20 years ago a teacher in my town was caught with printed material because of a fire in his home office. Sadly, no one was surprised.

Oh, I know! I expect firefighters find all kinds of strange things in homes. Kind of like the serial killer getting caught because he was pulled over for having a tail light out.
~Lynn2000

#### mmswm

• Member
• Posts: 2293
##### Re: S/O PD Student Darwinism
« Reply #116 on: February 05, 2013, 01:48:08 PM »
Here's an odd thing that happened to me when I was 10 or 11, that must have looked very weird/suspicious to other people; it seems pretty weird to me looking back on it as an adult. It was almost time to hand in some homework, so I got the worksheet out and put it on my desk. Then I went off to do something else for a couple minutes, and when I came back the paper was gone. It wasn't on the floor or anything, so the conclusion seemed to be that someone had stolen it. I explained this to the teacher and he felt the same way; I was a straight-A student and never any trouble, so he didn't mark me down for missing the assignment and even gave the class an impromptu lecture on stealing/cheating. I told my parents about it when I got home, and they worried that some of the other students were trying to bully or sabotage me. Then when I was getting ready the next morning, I found the worksheet there at home. It was confusing because it was very unlike me to forget work at home, and I had been certain the worksheet I'd put out on my desk had been this one (though most worksheets do superficially look alike). My parents told me to just turn it into the teacher and explain that I'd found it at home, which I did, and nothing happened--he didn't take off any points for lateness or anything. I just kept thinking, but there had been a piece of paper on my desk, and someone must have taken it...

But it could have been very suspicious--I forget my work at home, say, so I make up a story about it being "stolen" to buy time, then... shoot my plan in the foot by turning it in later? Anyway, I think teachers must become adept at recognizing when a student is being sincere, even if their story doesn't make any sense.

Another teacher was a favorite, as he was really funny and silly in class, although his students didn't end up learning all that much compared to other teachers.  He got in major professional Darwinism a few years after I graduated when he had a small fire in his house.  When the firemen came in to deal with the fire, they observed his collection of... inappropriate child pictures.

Yipe! Didn't something like that happen in Donnie Darko?

I'm terrible at trimming quote trees, so I just bolded the section I wanted to comment on.  Yes, teachers do, for the most part, develop a 6th sense for when a student is being sincere. It's not fail proof, but there have been times I've bent rules for students who really did seem like they were being honest with me, even if the story didn't make sense.
Some people lift weights.  I lift measures.  It's a far more esoteric workout. - (Quoted from a personal friend)

#### Outdoor Girl

• Member
• Posts: 16745
##### Re: S/O PD Student Darwinism
« Reply #117 on: February 05, 2013, 02:01:36 PM »
When I was in high school, one of my peers was caught lifting a short story out of a teen magazine and submitting it as her own work.  If she hadn't bragged about it, she probably wouldn't have been caught.

The next year, my class was doing a poetry segment.  We were to write a poem, based on a classical style poem.  I chose one my Dad really liked by Bliss Carmen, about autumn.  Then, with a lot of help from my Dad, I wrote one about spring in the same style.  He didn't write it for me but there was a lot of discussion back and forth about what and how to write it.  The poems were critiqued, handed back, and we were asked to write it again and that it didn't have to rhyme!  I wrote the new poem almost entirely by myself (in front of the TV  ); Dad helped me with one line I was struggling with.  After handing it in, I got pulled out into the hall to discuss my work, because there was such a marked difference between the two.  I found out a long time later that I had the entire English Department scrambling to search out published poems, trying to find out where I'd copied it from.  I think they finally decided, knowing my reputation, that I'd written the poem.
After cleaning out my Dad's house, I have this advice:  If you haven't used it in a year, throw it out!!!!.
Ontario

#### Kimberami

• Member
• Posts: 1116
##### Re: S/O PD Student Darwinism
« Reply #118 on: February 05, 2013, 02:19:06 PM »
Been debating on whether to tell my own story.  I guess I will.

I am not a morning person.  I have never been a morning person.  I do not ever wish to be a morning person.

Therefore, I purposefully scheduled my college classes accordingly.  After 12 years of having to get up early for school, I was finally able to have some control over when I started classes.  Mine didn't start until at least 9, if not later.  It was wonderful.

However, because Finals Week is a mass of finals for everyone, I did end up having an early morning Religion final.

I set my alarm.  I told my roommate to wake me if she saw I wasn't awake (not her job, but I asked as a favor).  I did everything in my power to wake up on time.........and didn't.  I woke up at least an hour into the two hour final time.

To this day, I have no clue what I was wearing as I raced across the campus to get to class.  I'm hoping I had something on that wasn't too revealing, but who knows.  I just had to get to that class.

When I walked in, everyone was gone - apparently, the final didn't take the full 2 hours.  But the professor was still at the front of the room.  He looked at me and said, "So.  You finally decided to show up."  I was mortified.  And I should have failed the class right there.  But, he was a nice man, I had never been a problem student, and he took pity on me.  He told me to sit down and start the test.

Partway through the test, he said he needed to go do some stuff in his office, so would I mind coming with him and finishing up in the room just outside his office?  He left me in this little room, FILLED with Bibles and Biblical reference materials and went into his office while I finished.  Had I been an untrustworthy person, that would have been the perfect opportunity to have the Book with all the answers right there!  But I'm not that kind of person.  It has always made me feel good, though, to realize that he knew that, too.  He put the perfect temptation in front of me and knew that I'd be safe with it.

For many reasons, he was always one of my favorite professors.
Maybe that was part of the test?

#### blue2000

• It is never too late to be what you might have been
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• Posts: 6172
• Two kitties - No waiting. And no sleeping either.
##### Re: S/O PD Student Darwinism
« Reply #119 on: February 05, 2013, 02:30:21 PM »
I've taught at a community college for 6 years, beginning when I was still a nurse and continuing through seminary. I actually teach both surgical technicians and general studies folks.

My first semester teaching I had a girl who admitted she had problems reading and writing. She was in all prep classes except for my Healthcare Law and Ethics class. The was not an ESL student, but someone with an American high school diploma

She failed quiz after written quiz- but could get perfect scores if she could have stuff read to her and say the answers- I knew she was in deep doo for the 20 page paper I had them do.

She didn't turn in the outline, and the rough draft was an F- her subject was abortion law, and her actual first sentance began:" If ladie no go want baby, she's not go sex"

I get her final paper emailed to me the day it was due- a gorgeous 20 pages, perfect A work on her subject- and with the email from the actual writer still attached and forwarded right along with the paper...

"Dear (student), hope this was what you needed. You owe me \$50 Tuesday. Thanks, (writer's name)"

Needless to say the student failed the class.

This student was not right in what they did, but I am quite shocked that they were not given any consideration, or tested for an LD with the circumstances that you have written BEFORE they resorted to cheating.

I agree. This sounds almost textbook presentation of an intelligent student with a severe learning disability. She could probably, with proper management of her disability, be an excellent student.

Ironically, she probably left the note on because she couldn't read it well enough to understand the implications.

In college, students have to apply for help, and arrange things themselves. The teachers cannot arrange it for them, no matter how much they might need it (co-operate with the plan, yes - do the plan for them, no). So the most ladiedeathe could do for her is give her the number of the Student Services Office and hope she gets help.
You are only young once. After that you have to think up some other excuse.