Update and Further Advice Needed Re: Post "Help in Dealing With Sister!"

[gena264]

Stop reading her emails - she's nuts!

Can you block her emails, send them to a folder that you never open?

Would it be a lot of trouble to close that email account, and open another?

You don't deserve such treatment from your sister, or from the rest of your family.  Just make some gentle overtures to your daughter - at some point she is likely to recognize the truth.

I could block her emails. I know I probably should. She is also on my facebook page and if I delete her , that will cause further drama, which I know she wants.

If you don't want to delete her, you can use the privacy settings so that you don't see what she posts, and she can't see your posts. Then, if she tries to pm you, just delete it without reading.

This. And stop responding. You aren't going to "win" in that she's not going to magically admit you're right, so drop the rope and walk away. You sent a final email. Responding to her makes it not final anymore.

Thanks, you are right. It is hard to not want to respond and defend myself... and maybe psychoanalyze all of them as well (and boy I could write a book ) , but you are right.

[gena264]

She is waaaay too enmeshed in your relationship with your DD. It doesn't even sound like she wants a relationship with you but rather wants an opportunity to lecture you over your alleged parenting mistakes while bragging about how she's supposedly "saved" your daughter. You don't need that.

My advice is this - You've said what you have to say and unfortunately nothing improved. Prepare yourself for an "extinction burst" from your sister (and possibly other relatives?), explain to your DD that you aren't able to maintain a relationship with the extended family right now *but* you don't want that to effect your relationship with her, and try to put this behind you and move on.

Thanks. I haven't spoken to any of my other family members (older sister, parents) in about 4 years so there is no loss there with them. I think my younger sister will  be the one to probably start drama from this . Hopefully she wont include DD in this as well.

[SoCalVal]

Bean dip or silence on the forbidden topic entirely.  As I've said previously in my own recent experience with my toxic sister, the only option that worked was to ignore her attempts to engage on the topic.  I've kept my sanity as a result and am still open to a relationship with her.  Your sister sounds like mine because she wants to say everything she has to say, negate anything from you that contradicts her, won't let it go and won't admit she's at all wrong and won't look at things from a perspective other than her own.  The only winning move I see for you is zero response or zero response on the topic.

[PastryGoddess]

Send her emails directly into a folder in your mailbox so that you don't even see them.

You don't owe her or anyone else an explanation of your actions.  Honestly, if your sister is not going to see your facebook posts and vice versa, I don't see why you can't defriend her.  It might cause drama, but you know what, she'll cause drama no matter what.  If someone brings up the fact that you defriended her, then you can ask them how it's any of their business.

[gramma dishes]

She's already causing drama.  How is defriending her going to make that any worse? 

I agree with the direct cut route, even though I know it's hard and not the result you really truly wanted and hoped for.  But this is just driving you nuts and will continue to drive you nuts as long as you continue to attempt to have dialogue with her.  She is just one of those people who has to insist that they're right about EVERYTHING and that everyone else is wrong and she won't rest until she hears you say that.  If you're smart, she'll never hear those words.

So sorry you're having to deal with this.  It's sad.   

[weeblewobble]

She's using a very standard post-rebuke response from toxic people, the "But I've forgiven you for the many nebulous hurts that I can't really name right now, so you have to forgive me!"  It's a manipulation, pure and simple.  And it doesn't matter than she doesn't think you should close this door, you're closing it.  You don't need her permission.

[Iris]

Podding weeblewobble and gramma dishes. If you block her emails and facebook, then it won't matter if she starts drama because you won't know about it. Let her have her drama with the rest of your family while you live in blissful, blissful ignorance of it. Seriously, what could she possibly do to you that is worse than she is doing now?

Your family seems to have some kind of twisted dynamic where someone has to be the bad guy. Now that your brother and his DD are not, that role has been filled by you. (I'm curious - did they used to say similar things about them as they are now saying about you guys?) The only way to win that game is to not play.

So, personally, I would cut off all contact with your sister. I would contact your DD and let her know that you hope it will not affect your relationship with her but you are no longer going to have contact with the extended family. And honestly, DD has reached adulthood and at some stage will have to decide whether she is going to buy into the whole toxic mess or walk away clean. Modelling good behaviour and self respect in this may be the best parenting choice you ever make.

[Roe]

You are digging yourself into a bigger hole by continuing to discuss things with her.  She's drawing you back in. 

And TBH, that might be the whole point of her new relationship with you.  She just wants to draw you in, back to the toxic family. 

It's up to you whether or not you let her.

[gena264]

She's already causing drama.  How is defriending her going to make that any worse? 

I agree with the direct cut route, even though I know it's hard and not the result you really truly wanted and hoped for.  But this is just driving you nuts and will continue to drive you nuts as long as you continue to attempt to have dialogue with her.  She is just one of those people who has to insist that they're right about EVERYTHING and that everyone else is wrong and she won't rest until she hears you say that.  If you're smart, she'll never hear those words.

So sorry you're having to deal with this.  It's sad.   

Thank you gramma dishes. She will never hear me say she is right. I know that is her goal, it really is sad.

[gena264]

She's using a very standard post-rebuke response from toxic people, the "But I've forgiven you for the many nebulous hurts that I can't really name right now, so you have to forgive me!"  It's a manipulation, pure and simple.  And it doesn't matter than she doesn't think you should close this door, you're closing it.  You don't need her permission.

That was what struck me as odd, her saying that I hurt her too , so she feels why can't she hurt me? It does seem ,ike a form of manipulation. I did not hurt her in any way during our email conversations..unless me saying , " I am not interested in hearing you psychoanalyze my DD' qualifies as hurting her. And something else I forgot to mention in our previous email exchange. She brought up her son (2years old) at the end of a sentence as something she was disturbed about. It was written like this , " I would like to have a relationship with you but I am disturbed about how DD is and how you don't ask about my child. " .  I asked her what in the world she meant by that? I had never met her son, I always responded to his pictures she would post on facebook saying how cute he is (and he is cute) . I guess I was supposed to email her and ask about him when we are estranged? And even more interesting , she was the one who NEVER asked about DD , forgot a lot of her birthdays, only talked to her on Christmas (until this whole drama started) . I never said anything to her about it because it really didn't bother me.

[yokozbornak]

Podding weeblewobble and gramma dishes. If you block her emails and facebook, then it won't matter if she starts drama because you won't know about it. Let her have her drama with the rest of your family while you live in blissful, blissful ignorance of it. Seriously, what could she possibly do to you that is worse than she is doing now?

Your family seems to have some kind of twisted dynamic where someone has to be the bad guy. Now that your brother and his DD are not, that role has been filled by you. (I'm curious - did they used to say similar things about them as they are now saying about you guys?) The only way to win that game is to not play.

So, personally, I would cut off all contact with your sister. I would contact your DD and let her know that you hope it will not affect your relationship with her but you are no longer going to have contact with the extended family. And honestly, DD has reached adulthood and at some stage will have to decide whether she is going to buy into the whole toxic mess or walk away clean. Modelling good behaviour and self respect in this may be the best parenting choice you ever make.

I just wanted to quote the bolded for truth.  I have seen this dynamic played out in my family many times.  Someone always has to be the bad guy, the black sheep, the crazy one, etc.  I moved away and stopped playing the game a long time ago.  I am now mostly the bad guy because I refuse to have a relationship with certain toxic family members.  Instead of realizing that these family members have serious issues, it's easier for certain people (namely my mom) to tell me how I need to forgive and move on and then to continue to enable their bad behavior.  When these family members get angry with each other, suddenly I am sooo smart for cutting them off and am back in my mom's good graces.  This is why I have to keep my mom at arm's length, and I refuse to have a cconversation about family members with her. 

It sounds like this is what is being played out in your family.  You need to establish extremely firm boundaries with your sister and refuse to engage in conversations that make you uncomfortable or you need to cut or off directly.  I imagine of your boundaries are firm enough, she will probably be the one to cut you off because you aren't giving her any ammunition.

[gena264]

Podding weeblewobble and gramma dishes. If you block her emails and facebook, then it won't matter if she starts drama because you won't know about it. Let her have her drama with the rest of your family while you live in blissful, blissful ignorance of it. Seriously, what could she possibly do to you that is worse than she is doing now?

Your family seems to have some kind of twisted dynamic where someone has to be the bad guy. Now that your brother and his DD are not, that role has been filled by you. (I'm curious - did they used to say similar things about them as they are now saying about you guys?) The only way to win that game is to not play.

So, personally, I would cut off all contact with your sister. I would contact your DD and let her know that you hope it will not affect your relationship with her but you are no longer going to have contact with the extended family. And honestly, DD has reached adulthood and at some stage will have to decide whether she is going to buy into the whole toxic mess or walk away clean. Modelling good behaviour and self respect in this may be the best parenting choice you ever make.

Yes, they did so similar things with my brother , his wife and their DD. Their whole family drama started about 15-16 years ago. My parents, brother and his family , older sister and younger sister were having Thanksgiving at my parents house. My mom (and step dad) are (and have always been as long as I could remember) functioning alcoholics. They have great jobs, don't drink on the job, they just come home and drink. Dad would go through a 6 pack of beer a night, sometimes more. Mom would come home and have two glasses of wine while cooking dinner, two glasses during/after , then start on the bourbon or whatever else. Because of this I refuse to drink at all. So mom was tipsy or drunk or something when she decided to give niece (who was very young at the time, maybe 3?) a piece of turkey that had a bone in it. My brother got very upset and yelled don't give her that! Mom yelled back and stormed off in her car. She didn't come back until after my brother's family left. After this incident , mom never apologized , and bad mouthed brother for years. She would not visit him or his family for years, dad went by himself. Dad would come back from the visit saying Niece is troubled or niece has this or that issue, that the family would pick apart and analyze.  They wouldn't dream of 'recusing ' niece though. Her personally is loud and boisterous and not easily swayed. My DD on the other hand is quiet and used to be easily swayed. Plus she admired my younger sister and thought everything she said was gold .

I hope my DD will realize how toxic it is over there but somehow I don't hold out hope. I actually think that this new drama will make me look worse in DD's eyes, at least in the moment, because sister will spin it that I am not trying with her . And in a sense , walking away from sister , is NOT trying, I just am not sure DD will understand the real reason since she doesn't see how they are over there. Yet.

[gena264]

It sounds like this is what is being played out in your family.  You need to establish extremely firm boundaries with your sister and refuse to engage in conversations that make you uncomfortable or you need to cut or off directly.  I imagine of your boundaries are firm enough, she will probably be the one to cut you off because you aren't giving her any ammunition.
[/quote]

Yes, this is sadly how my family is as well. I have tried to keep sister at arms length. I suppose I could continue to do that, but I think it would be exhausting to wait for her to decide it is time to stir up drama. And , I am not sure I could trust myself to not think that THIS might be the time I can finally work things out with my sister in a respectful way. She doesn't have to agree with how I parented DD, she just needs to stop telling me her negative assumptions and opinions.

[Bethalize]

And in a sense , walking away from sister , is NOT trying

The only way to win is not to play.

The definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.

You can't change other people, you can only change your own actions.

[gena264]

You are digging yourself into a bigger hole by continuing to discuss things with her.  She's drawing you back in. 

And TBH, that might be the whole point of her new relationship with you.  She just wants to draw you in, back to the toxic family. 

It's up to you whether or not you let her.

Yes, that is what she is doing. I see that now. I had hoped I was wrong. After she sent the first email telling me she was sorry, they were unfair in how they treated DH and I , etc  , etc, I told my DH maybe enough time has passed now that we can move past this. I felt relieved that my sister validated my feelings and seemed to finally care about me and not just attack me . Then, when I turned down her offer as mediator, she showed her true colors...and started back up.. so I guess if I allowed her to be mediator, that would have satisfied her enough that she wouldn't attack me again.. at least until things didn't go according to plan with the mediation. Toxic all the way around.

Thanks to all the helpful advice and suggestions from all of you , I am more aware of this and can come back here and re-read what you all had to say. I have definitely decided to not allow her to draw me in further.