Author Topic: Passenger kicked off flight after demanding apology from fight attendant.  (Read 15564 times)

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Poppea

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Re: Passenger kicked off flight after demanding apology from fight attendant.
« Reply #120 on: February 11, 2013, 03:09:23 PM »
I think the couple sound rather self centered and snotty.  However, I don't think the flight attendant was correct in going up them after they were seated.  Going up tho them to give her name seems to me to be looking for a fight.  At that point her pointing out her title was "Dr" not "Miss" was not threatening or aggressive, just condescending.

The flight attendant should be able to deal with unpleasant customers.  I've seen much worse behavior on airplanes dealt with very professionally by the flight attendants.    I think that this was a power play by the flight attendant.

gramma dishes

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Re: Passenger kicked off flight after demanding apology from fight attendant.
« Reply #121 on: February 11, 2013, 03:17:21 PM »
...   I think that this was a power play by the flight attendant.

I thought it was a power play by the passenger.  Her unreasonable demand for an apology when none was due (and in fact the FA's comment "Oh, I guess it's smaller than I thought it was" could be 'heard' as an apology of sorts in itself) and her belligerence about being addressed as 'Doctor' are both meant to establish her dominance over the flight attendant. 

In this case, the FA was the authority and the passenger made a huge mistake in trying to play the 'I'm superior to you' game aboard an aircraft.


Poppea

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Re: Passenger kicked off flight after demanding apology from fight attendant.
« Reply #122 on: February 11, 2013, 03:47:32 PM »
The attendant also escalated the situation by returning to the passenger's seat and saying "Miss, I just wanted you to know that my name is Tina so you can tell my supervisors about me,'".  Kinda like the flight attendant was baiting the passenger.

I read it as the flight attendant realising that the couple were the kid who would complain and that there's probably some rule that you are supposed to identify yourself to customers and she hadn't done so.

The couple sound HORRIBLE and completely in the wrong though. The woman was rude, confrontation and escalated the situation. She wasn't owed an apology and even if she wanted one she could have asked pleasantly instead of at every stage being ruder and ruder to the attendant.

The passenger is no prize.  I think they were rude and condescending, but never a flight risk.

Addressing a 60 year old woman as "Miss" is condescending.  "Ms" is not impolite, but I would really wonder why the flight attendant would go up to her to give her the name in case she wanted to complain and then call her "Miss".  This is 2013.  "Miss" was inappropriate.  "Mam" would have been acceptable.

Calling a 60 year old woman "Miss" is like calling a flight attendant "stewardess"

Even though my friends with "MD" degrees do not use them socially, it was to not rude of her to say ""My (title) is doctor so you can address me as that", given that she was being addessed with a title that was inappropriate for a woman her age accompanied by a man who had identified himself as her husband.  The flight manifest would also have shown her as "Dr".

I've never heard of a rule of identifying yourself to a passenger, so unless you have actual knowledge of such a rule I am going to assume that the flight attendant was trying to egg on the passenger.


MariaE

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Re: Passenger kicked off flight after demanding apology from fight attendant.
« Reply #123 on: February 11, 2013, 04:00:27 PM »
Addressing a 60 year old woman as "Miss" is condescending.  "Ms" is not impolite, but I would really wonder why the flight attendant would go up to her to give her the name in case she wanted to complain and then call her "Miss".  This is 2013.  "Miss" was inappropriate.  "Mam" would have been acceptable.

In all fairness, she might have said Ms. and the couple misheard / misspoke / were misquoted in the article.
 
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Jones

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Re: Passenger kicked off flight after demanding apology from fight attendant.
« Reply #124 on: February 11, 2013, 04:40:30 PM »
Plus, a lot of people are offended by "ma'am". Many a discussion on this very forum results in a difficulty determining one female title that offends nobody.

snowdragon

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Re: Passenger kicked off flight after demanding apology from fight attendant.
« Reply #125 on: February 11, 2013, 05:09:17 PM »


Addressing a 60 year old woman as "Miss" is condescending.  "Ms" is not impolite, but I would really wonder why the flight attendant would go up to her to give her the name in case she wanted to complain and then call her "Miss".  This is 2013.  "Miss" was inappropriate.  "Mam" would have been acceptable.

Calling a 60 year old woman "Miss" is like calling a flight attendant "stewardess"


How so? 

From Miriam-Websters online Dictionary Definition of MISS
1
capitalized
a —used as a title prefixed to the name of an unmarried woman or girl
b —used before the name of a place or of a line of activity or before some epithet to form a title for a usually young unmarried female who is representative of the thing indicated <Miss America>
2
: young lady —used without a name as a conventional term of address to a young woman
3
: a young unmarried woman or girl
4
plural : a clothing size for women of average height and build


What in there is condescending based on age. Based on the fact that the male next to identified himself as her husband, I can see her being put out, but based on age? As a 51 year old  woman, I am not insulted by "Miss" and I think people who are  are looking to be offended.

DavidH

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Re: Passenger kicked off flight after demanding apology from fight attendant.
« Reply #126 on: February 11, 2013, 05:37:06 PM »
I think the issue is that even if the passenger is 100% justified, once she says that she won't talk to the flight attendant without an apology, there is a major problem.  Since one of the requirements of flying is to comply with crewmember instructions, talking to the crewmembers is important.

Even if the flight attendant apologizes at that point, there is every likelihood of the problem happening again over something else.  Perhaps even being addressed by the wrong title. 

WillyNilly

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Re: Passenger kicked off flight after demanding apology from fight attendant.
« Reply #127 on: February 11, 2013, 05:59:56 PM »
Addressing a 60 year old woman as "Miss" is condescending.  "Ms" is not impolite, but I would really wonder why the flight attendant would go up to her to give her the name in case she wanted to complain and then call her "Miss".  This is 2013.  "Miss" was inappropriate.  "Mam" would have been acceptable.

Calling a 60 year old woman "Miss" is like calling a flight attendant "stewardess"

Lets not go there.  Just as many people would take absolute outrage to being called "ma'am" or "ms" as would to being called "miss".  Just because you think "miss" is condescending to a woman of 60 doesn't make it so to the population at large.
"Miss" is a generic title for females when used in the context the flight attendant used it.

mmswm

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Re: Passenger kicked off flight after demanding apology from fight attendant.
« Reply #128 on: February 11, 2013, 07:20:46 PM »
I think the issue is that even if the passenger is 100% justified, once she says that she won't talk to the flight attendant without an apology, there is a major problem.  Since one of the requirements of flying is to comply with crewmember instructions, talking to the crewmembers is important.

Even if the flight attendant apologizes at that point, there is every likelihood of the problem happening again over something else.  Perhaps even being addressed by the wrong title.

This.  Absolutely nothing else matters.  Once she said she would not talk to, or listen to the FA she was off the flight. We could debate this until the cows come home, but the bottom line is as a passenger you must listen to and obey any directions given by the flight crew.  Announcing your intentions to the contrary is an automatic free escort off the plane.
Some people lift weights.  I lift measures.  It's a far more esoteric workout. - (Quoted from a personal friend)

Erich L-ster

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Re: Passenger kicked off flight after demanding apology from fight attendant.
« Reply #129 on: February 11, 2013, 07:35:12 PM »
I have tried to imagine "Are you sure your bag will fit under your seat?" in the nastiest, rudest way just for the sake of argument and it's still something I would blow past and not make anything out of it, certainly not something I would demand an apology for

Kiwichick

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Re: Passenger kicked off flight after demanding apology from fight attendant.
« Reply #130 on: February 11, 2013, 07:46:13 PM »
The passenger is no prize.  I think they were rude and condescending, but never a flight risk.

Addressing a 60 year old woman as "Miss" is condescending.  "Ms" is not impolite, but I would really wonder why the flight attendant would go up to her to give her the name in case she wanted to complain and then call her "Miss".  This is 2013.  "Miss" was inappropriate.  "Mam" would have been acceptable.

Calling a 60 year old woman "Miss" is like calling a flight attendant "stewardess"

Even though my friends with "MD" degrees do not use them socially, it was to not rude of her to say ""My (title) is doctor so you can address me as that", given that she was being addessed with a title that was inappropriate for a woman her age accompanied by a man who had identified himself as her husband.  The flight manifest would also have shown her as "Dr".

I've never heard of a rule of identifying yourself to a passenger, so unless you have actual knowledge of such a rule I am going to assume that the flight attendant was trying to egg on the passenger.

How would the FA know how old the passenger was?
The FA wouldn't have access to the manifest unless she was the Head FA and even then she wouldn't be carrying it on her person.
There doesn't have to be a rule, she was likely identifying herself so when the passengers complained she could be identified by her employer so she could give her side of the story.

Dr. F.

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Re: Passenger kicked off flight after demanding apology from fight attendant.
« Reply #131 on: February 11, 2013, 07:56:32 PM »
I have tried to imagine "Are you sure your bag will fit under your seat?" in the nastiest, rudest way just for the sake of argument and it's still something I would blow past and not make anything out of it, certainly not something I would demand an apology for

This.

The husband, at least, seems to take greatest offense at the FA "hollering" at them. To give them the benefit of the doubt, you can interpret that as that they didn't like the tone of the question. But, even posing that statement as meanly as I can, the subsequent "Oh, it's smaller than I thought" qualifies as an apology.

I can't imagine getting bent out of shape over that. Also, personally, I could be called "Dr.," I really don't respond to that easily and don't insist on it. I prefer a more casual form of address ("F"). I tend to associate people insisting on being called Dr. with those who just recently got their degree. It palls after a couple weeks.

amandaelizabeth

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Re: Passenger kicked off flight after demanding apology from fight attendant.
« Reply #132 on: February 11, 2013, 08:49:30 PM »
I am seeing what happened as:

First the conversation about the bag, couple are seated and continue muttering about making a formal complaint.  Another FA says to the the first one "you did give them your name,? you are required to do so if they want to make a complaint.

First FA returns to the couple and says,'if you are making a complaint you need to know my name is Jane Doe"

Not snarky at all.


Poppea

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Re: Passenger kicked off flight after demanding apology from fight attendant.
« Reply #133 on: February 11, 2013, 09:13:29 PM »


Addressing a 60 year old woman as "Miss" is condescending.  "Ms" is not impolite, but I would really wonder why the flight attendant would go up to her to give her the name in case she wanted to complain and then call her "Miss".  This is 2013.  "Miss" was inappropriate.  "Mam" would have been acceptable.

Calling a 60 year old woman "Miss" is like calling a flight attendant "stewardess"


How so? 

From Miriam-Websters online Dictionary Definition of MISS
1
capitalized
a —used as a title prefixed to the name of an unmarried woman or girl
b —used before the name of a place or of a line of activity or before some epithet to form a title for a usually young unmarried female who is representative of the thing indicated <Miss America>
2
: young lady —used without a name as a conventional term of address to a young woman
3
: a young unmarried woman or girl
4
plural : a clothing size for women of average height and build


What in there is condescending based on age. Based on the fact that the male next to identified himself as her husband, I can see her being put out, but based on age? As a 51 year old  woman, I am not insulted by "Miss" and I think people who are  are looking to be offended.

In context: there had already been a negative interaction.  I'm sure "Dr." was the title on the manifest.  "Miss" is a title given to a young woman.  If you called my mother "Miss" she would be insuted. If someone knows your preferred title is "Dr" than "Miss is condescending.

Again, I think the passengers were jerks.  But the FA was unprofessional.

Poppea

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Re: Passenger kicked off flight after demanding apology from fight attendant.
« Reply #134 on: February 11, 2013, 09:17:45 PM »
The passenger is no prize.  I think they were rude and condescending, but never a flight risk.

Addressing a 60 year old woman as "Miss" is condescending.  "Ms" is not impolite, but I would really wonder why the flight attendant would go up to her to give her the name in case she wanted to complain and then call her "Miss".  This is 2013.  "Miss" was inappropriate.  "Mam" would have been acceptable.

Calling a 60 year old woman "Miss" is like calling a flight attendant "stewardess"

Even though my friends with "MD" degrees do not use them socially, it was to not rude of her to say ""My (title) is doctor so you can address me as that", given that she was being addessed with a title that was inappropriate for a woman her age accompanied by a man who had identified himself as her husband.  The flight manifest would also have shown her as "Dr".

I've never heard of a rule of identifying yourself to a passenger, so unless you have actual knowledge of such a rule I am going to assume that the flight attendant was trying to egg on the passenger.

How would the FA know how old the passenger was?
The FA wouldn't have access to the manifest unless she was the Head FA and even then she wouldn't be carrying it on her person.
There doesn't have to be a rule, she was likely identifying herself so when the passengers complained she could be identified by her employer so she could give her side of the story.

I.  You can tell her age by the picture.
2.  In another forum I visit the husband had written about the flight and gave their ages.
(BTW almost everyone told him that they were inappropriate and that the request for the apology should have been on departing the plane.)