Author Topic: Oh no no no no no no!  (Read 7135 times)

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BeagleMommy

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Re: Oh no no no no no no!
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2013, 03:28:55 PM »
Please don't let my DS see this.

Sharnita

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Re: Oh no no no no no no!
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2013, 05:51:55 PM »
WillyNilly, as far as it speaking to our economic system, I think it also speaks to the changing reality that young people face.  Yeas young people used to be able to save money for a car - and yes, some still do.  But the fact also is that when my dad graduated from high school there were a lot of young people who could get a job in the auto plants making good money with a high school diploma.  At 18 they were making good wages and that money could go to a car, house, etc.  Those going to college could work, maybe take out loans, etc and pay their way.  Maybe if they were lucky their parents would help or even pay for it.

Now, the job market stinks.  Even people with degrees can't always find a job.  Factories are closing and/or pink slipping people.  The prospects for an 18 year old to make a good wage are not that great.  College costs are astronomical and continue to skyrocket which means that many who do go have staggering debt for years and years.

WillyNilly

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Re: Oh no no no no no no!
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2013, 06:40:52 PM »
^ while I don't doubt that... it took me 7 years to save for a car.  I literally saved my birthday money, my x-mas money, any odd job money, my HS graduation money, etc into a savings account for years. It was often $10 or $25 increments. And the car I bought was over 10 years old, 3 colors and 'special' in all sorts of not so happy ways.

I just don't see people today saving long term, or being willing to buy used, as much as in the past.  I'm in my 30's, so yes I grew up in an economically healthy time, but I didn't get some great job straight out of high school, nor did my parents let me work more then 6 hours a week while in HS, so it wasn't a big economic boom for me.

Sure times change.  Lots of things have changed in culture, some for good, some for bad, and many neutral.  But I really just don't see the savings and working towards goals going on as much anymore.  In fact the NY Times just wrote an article yesterday about how despite skyrocketing tuition prices, people putting off college for a year or 3 to save and then working their way through college is a dying tradition; People just take out loans these days. Its all part of an increasingly 'instant gratification' culture where debt is so free flowing, saving money towards an economic goal is lost practice.

Because really that's what this type of registry is - a for-a-fee savings plan.  People after all could send their gift in the form of a check directly to the prospective car owner... but would that person have the discipline to actually save it, along with any other money gifts or windfalls? And would they be willing to buy a used car with their savings.  The Dart starts at $16k - I recently purchased a used vehicle for less then half that... a used vehicle with a better Consumer Reports rating even used then the Dart has brand spanking new.

Young people might be facing a tough economic realty in the form of a bad job market, but there are a lot of personal choices influencing things as well.

Danika

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Re: Oh no no no no no no!
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2013, 07:21:46 PM »
^^^
POD to what WillyNilly said  ;)

I'm about to go pick up my 17-year-old economy car at the shop. I just spent thousands on it replacing brakes, part of the transmission, etc. It has nearly 200,000 miles on it. But I haven't had a car payment in over a decade. This costs less in insurance. I'm not turning any heads driving this old relic in our nice neighborhood. In fact, when I drive it after midnight, I frequently get pulled over by cops until they see my face and demeanor because they think I look suspicious in this part of town with a car like that (although the paint job and interior are immaculate - as comical as if you were to see a brand new looking Pinto). But making my mortgage on time and paying my bills is more important to me than my pride in showing off a fancy car.

Virg

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Re: Oh no no no no no no!
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2013, 01:20:23 PM »
WillyNilly wrote:

"Sure times change.  Lots of things have changed in culture, some for good, some for bad, and many neutral.  But I really just don't see the savings and working towards goals going on as much anymore.  In fact the NY Times just wrote an article yesterday about how despite skyrocketing tuition prices, people putting off college for a year or 3 to save and then working their way through college is a dying tradition; People just take out loans these days. Its all part of an increasingly 'instant gratification' culture where debt is so free flowing, saving money towards an economic goal is lost practice."

This is one side of the story, but an entirely reasonable alternative view exists.  It's not "instant gratification" that would drive me to take out a student loan and not put off school for years to save, it's a good grasp of economics and a change in culture that's made it possible.  For example, instead of getting a substandard job (you're not going to fast-track a job you're getting just to save for college) for three years, I can get into school right now, and use those three years at the end of my tenure to get a job in my chosen career, paying much better and offering direct advancement in my field (I'm ignoring the "working one's way through school" part of it because that can be done no matter when you decide to go, so it's neutral to the financial differences between borrowing and waiting).  I'll be three years farther in my field than someone who saved for college and the pay differential (in most industries) between three years of scut work and three years of post-collegiate work will pay for the interest against the loan on that extra time, so financially I'm not much worse off than the late starter while I'm a mile ahead professionally.  It's the relatively easy availability of credit that makes this economically feasible, so there's little surprise that more people take advantage of it now than when it wasn't there at all.

"Because really that's what this type of registry is - a for-a-fee savings plan.  People after all could send their gift in the form of a check directly to the prospective car owner... but would that person have the discipline to actually save it, along with any other money gifts or windfalls? And would they be willing to buy a used car with their savings."

Weren't you just decrying that people don't save like they used to?  If it works, then what difference does it make whether it's a for-fee savings account?  It's easy to condescend on people who can't just save it in a savings account, but if the choices are using a for-fee savings account or failing to use a no-fee savings account, then treating people like fools for using what they need to get the job done is just elitist.  And since they disburse the result as a check, someone could buy whatever car they want with the proceeds, so if they're willing to buy a used car then see above for the registry being a tool that some people need to get the job done.  I don't see this any differently from the old time Christmas Club accounts that paid no interest and yet were still wildly popular because many people (even back in the good old days) needed an enforced savings account to help them save.

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WillyNilly

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Re: Oh no no no no no no!
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2013, 01:59:17 PM »
"Because really that's what this type of registry is - a for-a-fee savings plan.  People after all could send their gift in the form of a check directly to the prospective car owner... but would that person have the discipline to actually save it, along with any other money gifts or windfalls? And would they be willing to buy a used car with their savings."

Weren't you just decrying that people don't save like they used to?  If it works, then what difference does it make whether it's a for-fee savings account?  It's easy to condescend on people who can't just save it in a savings account, but if the choices are using a for-fee savings account or failing to use a no-fee savings account, then treating people like fools for using what they need to get the job done is just elitist.  And since they disburse the result as a check, someone could buy whatever car they want with the proceeds, so if they're willing to buy a used car then see above for the registry being a tool that some people need to get the job done.  I don't see this any differently from the old time Christmas Club accounts that paid no interest and yet were still wildly popular because many people (even back in the good old days) needed an enforced savings account to help them save.

Virg

An old fashioned Christmas club account might not have paid interest, but it also didn't charge a 5% commission fee + 4% payment processing fee, nor did it threaten that after 6 months "the funds will be marked as inactive and reallocated." I think a Christmas club savings plan is an excellent idea and exactly the kind of thing I'm lamenting is no longer popular.  These days more people use credit (debt) to purchase things then savings.
If you want to call me "elitist" because I think paying a company to collect funds is a poor financial investment when free, or interest bearing (minimal as it may be) options exist but simply require a minimum of discipline on the part of the saver (as in they actually have to deposit the gifted money into the accounts themselves), go ahead, but I don't really agree the term applies.

TootsNYC

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Re: Oh no no no no no no!
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2013, 03:42:25 PM »
The car registry was started by a company, not by a married couple.

There are tons of companies who have invented registries because THEY want to make money.
Not because they are fulfilling a genuine widely spread need.

Yvaine

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Re: Oh no no no no no no!
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2013, 03:52:49 PM »
The car registry was started by a company, not by a married couple.

There are tons of companies who have invented registries because THEY want to make money.
Not because they are fulfilling a genuine widely spread need.

This is a very good point. The existence of the registry is not proof that everybody's going to start using it.

Virg

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Re: Oh no no no no no no!
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2013, 10:05:21 AM »
WillyNilly wrote:

"If you want to call me "elitist" because I think paying a company to collect funds is a poor financial investment when free, or interest bearing (minimal as it may be) options exist but simply require a minimum of discipline on the part of the saver (as in they actually have to deposit the gifted money into the accounts themselves), go ahead, but I don't really agree the term applies."

It's the attitude that any given method of saving is better than another for everyone because it's better for you that's elitist.  Nobody's being forced to use this registry, and if it works better for some, then it's not a poor financial investment for them.

But back to the initial point, anyone using this registry isn't commiting an intrinsic faux pas just by signing up for it, which seems to be the general attitude, and is the point with which I disagree.  As long as it's handled politely (information given only when requested) then it's exactly the same as any other registry.

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WillyNilly

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Re: Oh no no no no no no!
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2013, 10:41:50 AM »
But back to the initial point, anyone using this registry isn't commiting an intrinsic faux pas just by signing up for it, which seems to be the general attitude, and is the point with which I disagree.  As long as it's handled politely (information given only when requested) then it's exactly the same as any other registry.


Buts not the same as any other registry... because its not actually a registry.  Its a fee based savings plan.

When I registered for dishes at JC Penny for my wedding, they cost the buyer/gift giver the exact same amount to buy through the registry as it would have if they just straight out bought them, or if they gave me the cash equivalent to the cost on the registry that is exactly how much I could buy the dishes for.  JC Penny did not charge a commission nor did they take a processing fee.

This registry charges a fee.  So if you give $100 to this registry it only translates to $91 for the recipient.

I have no problem giving, for example my nephew, money towards him saving for a car.  But I would want to give him the money, not him and some random financial company. Alternately I would be fine actually writing a check to the dealership he was buying the car from. Its not that asking for money towards a car is intrinsically rude, its asking people to pay a company for the opportunity to help you save for a car that I find so distasteful.  I think asking people to gift you money and pay a fee for doing so is "an intrinsic faux pas" when you easily could do it for free yourself.

(All "you" statements are general of course.)

DavidH

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Re: Oh no no no no no no!
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2013, 11:55:22 AM »
I don't see why from an etiquette point of view this is different from any other type of registry, but from a financial point of view, it's hard to imagine making a worse decision.

I agree with the point about taking a student loan vs saving for college, since with interest rates low, you will probably be in a better financial spot if you take the loan, go to college, get a job, and then pay if off.  Saving for college in a job that doesn't require a college degree seems like it would take longer.

On the other hand, you may call it elitist, but I can't think of a many worse financial decisions than to pay someone what amounts to 9% to hold your money for you.  A traditional savings account paying minimal interest would be much better, even taking out a car loan would be better since the interest rate on a new car is rarely as high as 9%.

Mikayla

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Re: Oh no no no no no no!
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2013, 01:28:18 PM »
For people saying this is no different than a wedding registry, I don't agree.

To me, the biggest difference is that people on this car site write blurbs to justify their request, and they come across as incredibly entitled.  For example, "I've been a good student so I deserve a car".  You won't see this on a wedding registry, or even an Amazon wish list.

Also, a wedding registry is event specific, and is meant as a guideline or even a convenience to guests.  Weddings are pretty much gift giving events, and the registry helps with ideas.   That seems very different from telling people you want a car and you want help paying for it.

Finally, there are specific and long standing rules on how wedding registry info gets disseminated.  It can't go on an invite, but it can be related via parents, a bridal shower, and the bride herself if asked about it.  With something like this, there's no way for its existence to be made available unless the person setting up starts that process.  How do you start the process without begging for cash?  And maybe it's an uncharitable assumption, but I'd think once people start telling about it, it's just a short leap to posting it on FB.

In fact, I'm pretty sure there was a thread in here recently about someone's uncle pressuring her to contribute to a similar fund.  That may be another example of fallout. 
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 01:29:51 PM by Mikayla »

Girlie

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Re: Oh no no no no no no!
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2013, 01:46:50 PM »
I saw the commercial for this and thought it was one of the most blatantly crass things I've seen in a while. The insistence that it's okay to have someone buy you part of a car for your birthday, more for your birthday, and then some for your wedding... Tacky, tacky, tacky.

I did think privately, though, that it would be sort of cool to have that sort of program for a single individual the same way some stores do layaway. I personally find it easier to make payments than I do to save, so it would be an easier way for me to buy a car without having to finance all of it.

Diane AKA Traska

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Re: Oh no no no no no no!
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2013, 02:09:18 PM »
For people saying this is no different than a wedding registry, I don't agree.

To me, the biggest difference is that people on this car site write blurbs to justify their request, and they come across as incredibly entitled.  For example, "I've been a good student so I deserve a car".  You won't see this on a wedding registry, or even an Amazon wish list.

Also, a wedding registry is event specific, and is meant as a guideline or even a convenience to guests.  Weddings are pretty much gift giving events, and the registry helps with ideas.   That seems very different from telling people you want a car and you want help paying for it.

Finally, there are specific and long standing rules on how wedding registry info gets disseminated.  It can't go on an invite, but it can be related via parents, a bridal shower, and the bride herself if asked about it.  With something like this, there's no way for its existence to be made available unless the person setting up starts that process.  How do you start the process without begging for cash?  And maybe it's an uncharitable assumption, but I'd think once people start telling about it, it's just a short leap to posting it on FB.

In fact, I'm pretty sure there was a thread in here recently about someone's uncle pressuring her to contribute to a similar fund.  That may be another example of fallout.

To say nothing of the fact that instead of items, they give you cash money.

Also, when you register for a wedding, people buy you dishes, or a gravy boat.  With a car, what you get is a car.  If they didn't give you cash, all of this buying components of the vehicle would be non-existent.  I actually liek the comparison to the Kickstarter ideal.
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bopper

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Re: Oh no no no no no no!
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2013, 02:37:10 PM »
My daughter saw that on TV and thought it a good idea.

Me:  oh nononononono

Her: you don't have to freak out, mom.


Although if you want to have a registry that IF people ask you what you want for some sort of gift giving occasion then I think it would be okay to refer them to it.