Bullying in college-- how to handle? TINY Update 49, 62, 71, Final Update 86

[LeveeWoman]

If there was a system in place, why was etiquette advice needed?  Why not just follow through with the documented procedure?

The OP isn't the prof.

Right. And, not everything in the original post can be taken care of by official action.

[Softly Spoken]

Given the OPs update, I will cop to just wanting to know that this is resolved now.

However, before reading post #49, I was not agreeing with the suggestions to "just ignore." I really have a pet peeve when it comes to this advice. The issue I have is mainly that it puts all the onus on the person being bothered. It is also quite often taken by the obnoxious person as "challenge accepted": they want a response, you don't give them what they want, they escalate, you seethe and grow an ulcer, they continue on their merry destructive way. It would be one thing if you were ignoring because you truly were not bothered and could brush them off...but if they bother you and you suffer in silence, you are also adopting a "grade school" attitude - that of putting your fingers in your ears and saying "lalalalala I can't hear you!" Of course you hear them, of course it bothers you, and they can see it bothers you - they can see the vein throbbing in your head and they can't wait to push your final button and make you explode.

Sorry, rant over.  Now on to some more practical advice:

Whether it's grade school, high school or college you should not have to tolerate obnoxious behavior. That's what rules are for. That's why policies are written. That's why every institution has a code of conduct. Don't waste time wandering in the gray area of social etiquette - go look up the rules and see if the behavior is technically allowed! If it isn't allowed, there are consequences for the behavior that it is the school's responsibility to enforce.

Sometimes when we ask ourselves "how do I deal with this?", the best answer is "let someone else deal with it."

Then you don't have to worry about being "rude."

[Nikko-chan]

Okay so apparently Professor put his foot down? I got a call earlier today from a friend of mine who was in that class (i wasn't there for the past few days), and he says that Joe picked up a friend of ours, Jamie, and when she yelled "HEY PUT ME DOWN!" The professor let him have it. So... it took having Joe giving a person unwanted physical contact in order for Professor to get angry enough to make him stop? That's... that's a bit scary for me.

[PastryGoddess]

ummmm yay...go professor...woo

[Nikko-chan]

ummmm yay...go professor...woo

That was my exact reaction.

[artk2002]

Okay so apparently Professor put his foot down? I got a call earlier today from a friend of mine who was in that class (i wasn't there for the past few days), and he says that Joe picked up a friend of ours, Jamie, and when she yelled "HEY PUT ME DOWN!" The professor let him have it. So... it took having Joe giving a person unwanted physical contact in order for Professor to get angry enough to make him stop? That's... that's a bit scary for me.

From one of your earlier posts, the professor already told him to knock it off. Why do you think this will do any good? Joe needs to be out of that class and out of school. Please take this to your site dean, the dean at the man campus and/or any student ombudsman or other support. This is not good.

BTW, this is for Joe's protection as well. Had I been Jamie, Joe might be on his way to the hospital. I don't take kindly to being grabbed and can have an immediate physical reaction.

[camlan]

Okay so apparently Professor put his foot down? I got a call earlier today from a friend of mine who was in that class (i wasn't there for the past few days), and he says that Joe picked up a friend of ours, Jamie, and when she yelled "HEY PUT ME DOWN!" The professor let him have it. So... it took having Joe giving a person unwanted physical contact in order for Professor to get angry enough to make him stop? That's... that's a bit scary for me.

The flip side of this is that once Joe stopped just being an annoyance in class and grabbed a girl, the professor stepped up and made him stop. The professor could have just figured it was two kids fooling around and done nothing. It can be difficult to tell what's teasing and what's not when you are the instructor and only seeing part of what's going on. And yes, I have seen young men pick up young women in a friendly or flirty way, so just the physical contact in a classroom or hallway would not be an immediate signal to me that there was something wrong. The woman's command of "Put me down!" would be the signal for me.

Don't forget, the professor is not seeing/hearing all the exchanges between Joe and you and other students outside of class. You have some reasons for disliking Joe that the professor doesn't know about. All the professor knows is that Joe is a nuisance in class and won't shut up.

I am not excusing Joe's behavior at all. And I do think the professor needs to take Joe's behavior further up the chain of command and get something done about him. But there are limits as to what instructors in college can do. The students are adults and while you can ask someone to behave or tell them to behave, there aren't a lot of options if the student choose not to behave. And if the administration of the institution is more focused on getting bodies in the seats and won't back the instructors up, well, there's not much the instructors can do.

At one university I attended, the library had some small, private "group study" rooms. The security guards at the library made regular rounds of the entire building and had to open all the group study room doors and look inside the rooms several times a day. The rooms were apparently popular places for students to, ahem, play "scrabble." The guards were not allowed to tell the couples to stop playing and take it elsewhere. They were required to ask any women involved if they were okay, and that was all they could do. The university administration had decided that the students were consenting adults and could not be made to stop legal behavior anywhere on university grounds, even after other students complained about this. Just an example of how there might be rules that the professor has to follow in dealing with Joe.

[cicero]

Okay so apparently Professor put his foot down? I got a call earlier today from a friend of mine who was in that class (i wasn't there for the past few days), and he says that Joe picked up a friend of ours, Jamie, and when she yelled "HEY PUT ME DOWN!" The professor let him have it. So... it took having Joe giving a person unwanted physical contact in order for Professor to get angry enough to make him stop? That's... that's a bit scary for me.

maybe the prof didn't know how to deal with the annoying behavior, but could deal with what appeared to be a physical attack. annoying behavior doesnt' always have clear boundary lines (is it just annoying? is he just being a baby? is that bullying?) but the physical does. or usually does. certainly in the case of a student picking up another student.

I remember in college we had 2 annoying guys in our year (we had many but not all of the same classes). annoying to the point where nobody was willing to work with them but not "kick out of class" worthy...

[Katana_Geldar]

Okay so apparently Professor put his foot down? I got a call earlier today from a friend of mine who was in that class (i wasn't there for the past few days), and he says that Joe picked up a friend of ours, Jamie, and when she yelled "HEY PUT ME DOWN!" The professor let him have it. So... it took having Joe giving a person unwanted physical contact in order for Professor to get angry enough to make him stop? That's... that's a bit scary for me.

maybe the prof didn't know how to deal with the annoying behavior, but could deal with what appeared to be a physical attack. annoying behavior doesnt' always have clear boundary lines (is it just annoying? is he just being a baby? is that bullying?) but the physical does. or usually does. certainly in the case of a student picking up another student.

I remember in college we had 2 annoying guys in our year (we had many but not all of the same classes). annoying to the point where nobody was willing to work with them but not "kick out of class" worthy...

That's sort of expected. Academics don't get a lot of teacher training compared to professional teachers. Best lecturer I had was a former high school teacher.

[figee]

Okay so apparently Professor put his foot down? I got a call earlier today from a friend of mine who was in that class (i wasn't there for the past few days), and he says that Joe picked up a friend of ours, Jamie, and when she yelled "HEY PUT ME DOWN!" The professor let him have it. So... it took having Joe giving a person unwanted physical contact in order for Professor to get angry enough to make him stop? That's... that's a bit scary for me.

maybe the prof didn't know how to deal with the annoying behavior, but could deal with what appeared to be a physical attack. annoying behavior doesnt' always have clear boundary lines (is it just annoying? is he just being a baby? is that bullying?) but the physical does. or usually does. certainly in the case of a student picking up another student.

I remember in college we had 2 annoying guys in our year (we had many but not all of the same classes). annoying to the point where nobody was willing to work with them but not "kick out of class" worthy...

That's sort of expected. Academics don't get a lot of teacher training compared to professional teachers. Best lecturer I had was a former high school teacher.

I'm a lecturer. Power is limited. I can try to work with obnoxious students, I can call them out, I can cut them off, I can ask them to leave or I can leave myself. Unless they are clearly a threat to other students or myself, I can't report them to security and I can't report them to anyone. I have very few issues in my classes because I am a strict, confident female dog in front of them. But obnoxious students are not easy to manage and I'm not sure what else I would have done in the professors place.

[oogyda]

The professor may be limited in what he can do.  However, I think Jamie could lodge a formal complaint about the assault.

[Nikko-chan]

Well, I guess a little clarification is needed. The friend who called me, Thomas, didn't know the words to describe what happened (English isn't his first language). When he said picking up, he meant "flirting with" so basically Joe tried to ask Jamie out.  Yeah, that went over real well. Jamie pretty much told him she wasn't interested.

When I returned to school on monday, it was to find we were working with ink. Yikes! (art intimidation factor: level ten) It wasn't so bad, and we merely had to copy an ink painting. All fine and dandy... til the professor said these words "Oh, and we will be doing an Art Critique on Wednesday, so please pick five art pieces to use in the critique."

I thought, alright, I am totally going to use this piece. It actually looks like the original in work from the artist... mostly! Then Joe (who had been faking that he was getting ink on people the whole entire class period.. he did it to Jamie, "oops i got ink on your jacket!" her response was that he was buying her a new one if that was the case.)

He walked past me with brush in hand, and ran it across my painting! I was standing in front of my desk (I had dropped my art pencils and had just finished gathering them up. Ehellions, I am afraid I did a bad thing in that moment. I shoved him away from my painting, fearing he had grey water on his brush. Lucky me the brush was dry.

Short of pushing him away from my artwork I didn't know what else to do. 

And another fun little fact: I was the only person who he ran his brush across their painting. Everyone else it was clothing. The ink is water soluble so I am pretty sure if he had placed the brush on my clothes I wouldn't have shoved him away. It would have been 'Meh water soluble ink. Whatever.' The fact it was my painting made my 'oh crap no!' instinct kick in.

If you've read through this you get a cookie... and a bottle of your favorite wine.

[Calypso]

[
At one university I attended, the library had some small, private "group study" rooms. The security guards at the library made regular rounds of the entire building and had to open all the group study room doors and look inside the rooms several times a day. The rooms were apparently popular places for students to, ahem, play "scrabble." The guards were not allowed to tell the couples to stop playing and take it elsewhere. They were required to ask any women involved if they were okay, and that was all they could do. The university administration had decided that the students were consenting adults and could not be made to stop legal behavior anywhere on university grounds, even after other students complained about this. Just an example of how there might be rules that the professor has to follow in dealing with Joe.

What. The. Hades.

Since when is it legal to engage in scrabble in a public place? I'm not saying it's the end of the world and admit to, at that age, engaging in activities once or twice in improper places....at night. When no one was around (and forget that these days, with the proliferation of security cameras). And I would've been appalled to be caught, not defensive about my rights! What on earth is the administration thinking-----can consenting adults copulate with impunity on the quad? In the bookstore? In the dining hall? By the logic that was being used, why not?

As for Joe....Nikko, forgive me that I can't remember, but are you not in the U.S.? 'Coz with liability laws being what they are (and I don't want to get into threadlock territory, so sorry for mentioning the legal system) I can't fathom that a public institution in the US would permit Joe to create the student equivalent of a "hostile work environment."  In another culture, I could maybe see it.

[Nikko-chan]

CRUD MONKEYS! i forgot about that post Calypso. Yeah, it actually made me glad we don't have a library at our school. And yes, I am in the U.S. A friend of mine did make a good point, and I am going to start documenting everything...

[Calypso]

Well, I'm absolutely furious that you're paying for an education and this useless git is allowed to disrupt your classroom experience.

Also, I'm in awe that you're learning how to create art. How wonderful!