Yet another baby clothes issue

[Fragglerocker]

I never knew there was such an issue with passing along baby clothes until I became a mom myself!

Here is an issue encountered by a friend of mine:  She was pregnant with a 2nd child, did not want to know the gender, but already had a daughter.  One of her friends was due about four months ahead of her with a girl.  This other mom-to-be was a first-time mom, and strapped for cash, so my friend offered her hand-me-downs with the following condition:  If her own 2nd child was a girl, please return them once friend's daughter outgrows them.  (With a 4-month gap, this shouldn't have been an issue.)  The "recipient" agreed.  My friend's second baby turns out to also be a girl.

My friend explained that she didn't expect them all back at once, but figured since they saw each other often, she could bring them back a small bag at a time.

So, time goes by and my friend's friend's daughter clearly outgrows, say, the newborn and 3mo sizes, and nearly a year old; her own daughter is now wearing 6 mo. sizes.  Friend politely has asked for the clothes back that the friend's daughter has outgrown, and her friend just refuses.  No excuse, just won't do it.

So my friend told me all this and I was upset on her behalf.  I don't even know the other woman so I won't say anything to her, but it really frustrated me because here my friend was trying to help out, and her friend agreed to the condition of returning the items when her own child outgrew them if my friend ended up having a girl, too, and now, my friend, who also isn't flush with cash, doesn't have enough items for her own child! 

Understanding how she felt, I ended up going through the stash of items passed to me for my own baby (due in April) from my sister, and gave her roughly half of the stuff in the size she needs.  I am of course hoping that she'll not turn around and behave the way her own friend did, and not return the items, but I kept enough stuff in reserve so even if she does that, I should be okay with my own daughter's wardrobe. 

So, my friend doesn't want to ruin the friendship over these clothes, but asking directly hasn't gotten her anywhere.  Other suggestions on what she should do?  Or is she crazy for expecting them back (when that was the arrangement from the outset)?

[Yvaine]

OtherMom is definitely in the wrong. In a lot of these threads, the agreement was kind of nebulous, but here it was really specific: Friend gets back the clothes if Friend's baby is a girl. OtherMom has reneged on the agreement and won't say why. Maybe she sold them, maybe they're ruined and she doesn't want to admit it, but in any case she's in the wrong.

I'm not sure there's much to be done unless Friend wants to take OtherMom to small claims court, which might be much more trouble than it's worth. But relationship-consequences, such as Friend becoming much more distant or never doing a favor for OtherMom again, would be justified.

[auntmeegs]

Its not so much ruining the friendship over the clothes, its more the friend ruining the friendship because she is a dishonest and unreliable person and who wants to be friends with someone like that?
When you say she refuses, I just can't picture how this conversation would go. 
"Hey friend, I need that clothes back that I lent you."
"No, I'm not giving your clothes back to you."

I mean, that can't be the end of the conversation, right?  Your friend must say something in reply, I would think.  I would be demanding an explanation if I were her and flat out demanding to have the clothes back. 

PS - I bet something happened to the clothes and thats why the non-friend is refusing to give them back.  I would not let her get away with that.   

[lowspark]

I agree that the borrower is in the wrong and should at the very minimum explain why she can't/won't return the clothes.

However, this kind of agreement was just a misunderstanding waiting to happen. I understand your friend was tryng to be generous to this needy mom but if she really needed those clothes if her next baby turned out to be a girl, she should not have lent them out in the first place. With or without conditions, the chances that the clothes would be returned, in good shape, in a timely manner, are pretty small.

[Rosewater]

I never knew there was such an issue with passing along baby clothes until I became a mom myself!

Here is an issue encountered by a friend of mine:  She was pregnant with a 2nd child, did not want to know the gender, but already had a daughter.  One of her friends was due about four months ahead of her with a girl.  This other mom-to-be was a first-time mom, and strapped for cash, so my friend offered her hand-me-downs with the following condition:  If her own 2nd child was a girl, please return them once friend's daughter outgrows them.  (With a 4-month gap, this shouldn't have been an issue.)  The "recipient" agreed.  My friend's second baby turns out to also be a girl.

My friend explained that she didn't expect them all back at once, but figured since they saw each other often, she could bring them back a small bag at a time.

So, time goes by and my friend's friend's daughter clearly outgrows, say, the newborn and 3mo sizes, and nearly a year old; her own daughter is now wearing 6 mo. sizes.  Friend politely has asked for the clothes back that the friend's daughter has outgrown, and her friend just refuses.  No excuse, just won't do it.

So my friend told me all this and I was upset on her behalf.  I don't even know the other woman so I won't say anything to her, but it really frustrated me because here my friend was trying to help out, and her friend agreed to the condition of returning the items when her own child outgrew them if my friend ended up having a girl, too, and now, my friend, who also isn't flush with cash, doesn't have enough items for her own child! 

Understanding how she felt, I ended up going through the stash of items passed to me for my own baby (due in April) from my sister, and gave her roughly half of the stuff in the size she needs.  I am of course hoping that she'll not turn around and behave the way her own friend did, and not return the items, but I kept enough stuff in reserve so even if she does that, I should be okay with my own daughter's wardrobe. 

So, my friend doesn't want to ruin the friendship over these clothes, but asking directly hasn't gotten her anywhere.  Other suggestions on what she should do?  Or is she crazy for expecting them back (when that was the arrangement from the outset)?

Ruin what friendship?  Someone who blatantly ignores a promise they made to a good friend who helps them out in their time of need for whatever reason doesn't sound like much of a friend to me.  This individual doesn't even posses the grace to tell her friend the truth about why she won't return the clothes!

I have never seen loaning baby clothes to work out for anyone yet.  If one can be independent enough to bear a child then they are responsible for providing for that child.  The "friend" mentioned in the OP had  many months to glean garage sales, charities, Craigslist and second hand stores to get together what she needed and she should have taken advantage of that time.

Since the "friend" doesn't want to give the clothes back I fail to see what is going to magically make her change her mind in the matter, it's possible she has already sold them or given them away to someone else.

In short I don't think any of the clothes will ever be returned to anyone.  As Dr. Phil says the best predictor of future actions is past actions.  Please do not give this person anything more, she is an adult user and is capable of meeting her own needs with a little initiative and hard work.

[Deetee]

So I don't like the idea of loaning clothes that need to be returned but that is because I know that I am terribly disorganised. I can have great intentions, but it's just too much effort to be worth it for me. That is MY issue and MY problem.

I did have one person give me clothes under those conditions. I tried to deal with it for a while and then I just packed up everything and put them off to one side with whatever I hadn't used yet so I could return the whole lot when my kid had outgrown them. 

I would never accept clothes that needed to be returned.( I will happily give away bales of clothing so that others can use them and hope that some clothing will be returned to me from someone)

But in this case, the friend is totally wrong. She took the clothes while knowing they were a loan AND that the other mom needed them. 

[Lynn2000]

Yup, OtherMom is in the wrong. If she didn't like the conditions of the borrowing, she shouldn't have agreed to them (or if she thought it over later and decided she didn't like them, she should have returned the clothes right then/set them aside to be easily returned later). If she can't even be bothered to give an apology and an explanation I wouldn't think the friendship was worth keeping--not over baby clothes, but over someone who is dishonest and seems to feel no guilt about it.

[peaches]

The recipient is totally in the wrong in this case.

I do think it was unwise for the clothes to be shared in the first place. Never lend what you can't afford to lose.

Also, a four month spread in age isn't very much. Depending on the size of the babies, they could be in the same size clothes.

[TootsNYC]

But then she should say saying so.

Apparently she's not saying anything. I wonder what she *IS* saying, especially since she was directly asked.

I know I wouldn't consider this person to be much of a friend anymore.

Because were I the person who was loaned the baby clothes, not only would I be returning them (OK, maybe not every single stitch, bcs accidents happen and some of those clothes will escape, and certainly with some wear and tear), but I'd *also* be passing along some of the NEW clothes that *I* was given or purchased for my own baby.

[Fragglerocker]

But then she should say saying so.

Apparently she's not saying anything. I wonder what she *IS* saying, especially since she was directly asked.

I know I wouldn't consider this person to be much of a friend anymore.

Because were I the person who was loaned the baby clothes, not only would I be returning them (OK, maybe not every single stitch, bcs accidents happen and some of those clothes will escape, and certainly with some wear and tear), but I'd *also* be passing along some of the NEW clothes that *I* was given or purchased for my own baby.

OP here--and I do exactly that when I pass things along.  My own sis gave me a few things for my daughter, and I pass them back to her for her younger daughter, and include other things I purchased or received so my younger niece can wear them too. 

I'm going to ask my friend again what the status is with her friend and getting those clothes back.  My guess is she's not confrontational as a person, so when she asks and gets a, "I can't," she doesn't push any further to get a "Why not?" or any other explanation.

[Emmy]

I don't think it would be unreasonable for your friend to end her friendship.  She's not ending over baby clothes, but because she lent a helping hand to her friend with the condition that the clothes be returned and her friend completely disregards her feelings and leaves her in the position of needing to find clothes for her baby.  Others made a good point that it would be unreasonable to expect all the clothes to be returned and in the same condition, but this 'friend' has not made the effort to return any of the clothes.  The issue is not the clothes itself, but the fact non-friend basically took what she needed from friend, broke a promise, and hasn't issued a word of explanation or apology.

Four months isn't a lot of age difference and babies can vary a lot.  My DD is over 18 months and very slender and rather short for her age.  She can still fit in 6-9 month onesies.  I know babies several months younger who take several sizes bigger.

[Penguin_ar]

Like auntmeegs, I am also wondering how the recipient refused.... going back on an agreement is always rude, but whether it is worth severing a longterm friendship over depends on the reason:
- Is she saying her daughter still wears the clothes?
- Is she saying she hasn't had time to sort/ wash them?
- Is she denying the agreement ever happened (if so, any chance the wording was ambiguous?)?
- Is she saying she forgot about the agreement and sold/ passed on the clothes?

[cicero]

So, my friend doesn't want to ruin the friendship over these clothes, but asking directly hasn't gotten her anywhere.  Other suggestions on what she should do?  Or is she crazy for expecting them back (when that was the arrangement from the outset)?

this isn't a friendship (anymore) and your friend isn't ruining anything. her friend is.

she is not crazy for wanting them back, because that is what was agreed. other than pushing her on the phone, she could try driving over there and waiting till her "friend" gives back what is hers. you know "Hi, FormerFriend, i was in the neighborhood and thought i would stop by to pick up my clothes. I brought some bags - why don't you show me where they are and I'll pack them"

[Shoo]

End the friendship?  WHAT friendship?  This person has proven to be untrustworthy and unreliable.  Not my idea of a good friend.  I'd write off the clothing AND this person. 

[RedRuby]

This sort of situation never ceases to amaze me! I can see not being able to return all of them because some became stained, got lost, etc... but to flat out refuse to return any is just bizarre. I agree with others that she probably already gave them away or sold them.

Either way, she owes the loaner an explanation and an apology. I doubt she'll get it, though.