Family Photo...Help!

[Venus193]

Many people are not photogenic.  Others just don't like how they look, photo or no.  There's nothing small or petty about this.

With digital photos there are other issues aside from appearance. 

[bansidhe]

If anyone thinks I look "bad" in a photo I would say, "well, it's me."  I think it's weird to have some sort of preemptively negative judgment about a photo. Is it you? Then own it! I don't understand this aversion to photos unless there is some sort of underlying self doubt involved.

Disclaimer: I'll admit I haven't read all of the previous posts yet, so my apologies if I'm repeating points that have already been made.

All of humanity has self doubts. A likely appallingly large percentage of women have doubts about their appearance, as women are still heavily judged on this factor. It should be no surprise that a lot of people - in my experience mostly female - would rather not have their appearance recorded and shared.

Other people who may feel fine about their appearance have legitimate concerns about where their pictures will end up in cyberspace.

I truly do not understand why some people turn into complete boors when someone politely opts out of being photographed, but it happens frequently. I don't like being photographed, though I will be when necessary. When I do decline having my picture taken, I almost always encounter one of the following types:
- The Whiner: Repeats, ad nauseum, stuff like "Oh come ooooonnnn! It's just a piiiiicture!" often while following me around.
- The Bully: Attempts to shame me into having my picture taken and is very pushy and rude about it.
- The Sneak: Often starts out as a bully, then decides he or she is going to get a picture whether I like it or not and snaps a candid shot without my permission. (These people get a non-EHell-approved response to their guerilla tactics.)

None of this behavior is the least bit acceptable. I've seen 100% agreement on this site that it's not cool for anyone to try to force food on people who don't want it or bully someone into participating in a given activity. The same goes for picture taking. This should be a no-brainer.

[scotcat60]

Quick Public Service Annoucement:  Please, please write names and the date on the back of photos.  If you are sending photocards for Christmas, please incorporate the year into the greeting or write it on the back.  If the picture is a jpg file, rename it with some clue about when and where.  The biggest folder is going to be "Unknown People," because most of the people who I could ask about these anonymous photos are gone.

POD! Definately,absolutely. As an ex-archivsit who came across so many photographs where people and places were not named, I could not agree with you more. because of this, I have been busy identifying the subjects of photos.

[Venus193]

If anyone thinks I look "bad" in a photo I would say, "well, it's me."  I think it's weird to have some sort of preemptively negative judgment about a photo. Is it you? Then own it! I don't understand this aversion to photos unless there is some sort of underlying self doubt involved.

Disclaimer: I'll admit I haven't read all of the previous posts yet, so my apologies if I'm repeating points that have already been made.

All of humanity has self doubts. A likely appallingly large percentage of women have doubts about their appearance, as women are still heavily judged on this factor. It should be no surprise that a lot of people - in my experience mostly female - would rather not have their appearance recorded and shared.

Other people who may feel fine about their appearance have legitimate concerns about where their pictures will end up in cyberspace.

I truly do not understand why some people turn into complete boors when someone politely opts out of being photographed, but it happens frequently. I don't like being photographed, though I will be when necessary. When I do decline having my picture taken, I almost always encounter one of the following types:
- The Whiner: Repeats, ad nauseum, stuff like "Oh come ooooonnnn! It's just a piiiiicture!" often while following me around.
- The Bully: Attempts to shame me into having my picture taken and is very pushy and rude about it.
- The Sneak: Often starts out as a bully, then decides he or she is going to get a picture whether I like it or not and snaps a candid shot without my permission. (These people get a non-EHell-approved response to their guerilla tactics.)

None of this behavior is the least bit acceptable. I've seen 100% agreement on this site that it's not cool for anyone to try to force food on people who don't want it or bully someone into participating in a given activity. The same goes for picture taking. This should be a no-brainer.

Thanks.  I've encountered all three of these.  The worst bullies were in former offices and one was my boss at the time, which made the etiquette of the situation trickier.  This should not be the case among family and friends.

[TootsNYC]

I think where we differ is that I've never understood why simply saying "I prefer not to" isn't acceptable when it comes to declining photographs in a way it is with other things (say, declining to participate in an activity, declining to eat an offered slice of cake, or declining to attend an event).  A simple "No, thanks" should be acceptable without making someone a special snowflake or selfish.

I think the lack of patience with it comes because a photograph isn't about you, and isn't really FOR you. Refusing to participate in a big family photograph is not the same as refusing to eat a slice of cake or refusing to attend an event (though that could be pretty close in terms of hurt feelings, etc., depending on the importance of the event).

A photograph is specifically a gift for the other people who might look at it.

And its impact on you can be pretty minimal. The sort of people who delight in mocking you on Facebook because of the not-attractive photographs are VERY few and far between.

So you stand there patiently, and you smile for the 2 seconds after the photographer says "smile!" and then you go away. You never have to look at the photograph itself. It doesn't *need* to really impact you.

And do you think you are the only one who doesn't like how they look in photos? No, you're just the only one who thinks that somehow you SHOULD look good in all photos, or that the world should be shaped in a way that YOUR concerns about photos should be catered to, even if the rest of us have gotten over the self-consciousness. And you come across excessively self-focused.

Honestly, the rest of us don't care that you look a little doofus-y. Your insistance on avoiding the photo just makes you seem more selfish; WE all look a little doofus-y, but we sit there and smile so that our family and friends can look at pictures later and love us from afar.

Do you like to see photographs of other people? If you have *ever* enjoyed looking at a pic of your cousins / your kid / your parents / your friends, then you need to do your part. Suck it up and smile, and then just neglect/refuse to look at the photograph afterward. Or, when you do look at it, look at the OTHER people in the picture.

I have a LOT more sympathy for people who say, "please don't take candids of me," and very little for people who won't stand in the group photo of the family for a couple of seconds.

Being rude about it is rude. Rude to the person who doesn't want to get their picture taken AND rude to the other people bcs the bully/sneak/whatever is making a fuss.


(as for digital photos--I'm personally not that worried about group family photos.)

[CrochetFanatic]

I was sort of hoping for a "way out" that wouldn't be rude and wouldn't result in hurt feelings, but there doesn't seem to be one.  Especially with the "hurt feelings" bit.  I don't even think they know that I have a strong aversion to cameras, because even if I mentioned it once or twice in passing (and I honestly don't remember if I did or not), I don't really expect them to remember that.  We were sort of close growing up, but everyone kind of scattered like marbles.

I think that people's personal hang-ups should be respected, whether they're understood or not, and it's how they manage their hang-ups that's important, not the hang-ups themselves.  My hatred of cameras (yes, hatred) is common knowledge with my immediate family and nowhere else, so how could they know?  Now really seems to be the time for me not to bring it up, so I won't.  And candids happen, there's really nothing I can do about that.  The funny thing is, if I don't see the pictures being taken, and I don't learn about them or see them later, I don't care.  Ignorance is bliss, I guess. 

[bansidhe]

And do you think you are the only one who doesn't like how they look in photos? No, you're just the only one who thinks that somehow you SHOULD look good in all photos, or that the world should be shaped in a way that YOUR concerns about photos should be catered to, even if the rest of us have gotten over the self-consciousness. And you come across excessively self-focused.

So let's say you're absolutely terrified of public speaking - just play along if you're not - and the president of a group you are part of asks you to give a speech at the annual meeting in front of a huuuuge audience. If you politely decline, are you excessively self-focused because the rest of the people speaking have gotten over their self-consciousness? And is everyone else catering to your bizarre concerns if they accept your answer of No? Or is this possibly one aspect of life you prefer to opt out of and it's not really a big deal?

[TurtleDove]

And do you think you are the only one who doesn't like how they look in photos? No, you're just the only one who thinks that somehow you SHOULD look good in all photos, or that the world should be shaped in a way that YOUR concerns about photos should be catered to, even if the rest of us have gotten over the self-consciousness. And you come across excessively self-focused.

So let's say you're absolutely terrified of public speaking - just play along if you're not - and the president of a group you are part of asks you to give a speech at the annual meeting in front of a huuuuge audience. If you politely decline, are you excessively self-focused because the rest of the people speaking have gotten over their self-consciousness? And is everyone else catering to your bizarre concerns if they accept your answer of No? Or is this possibly one aspect of life you prefer to opt out of and it's not really a big deal?

These are not at all similar.

[Twik]

What exactly is meant by "absolutely terrified"? If it means full-flown panic attack, that's a disability, but one that should be treated by therapy, particularly if it's something related to one's employment. If your boss wants you to speak in public as part of your job, you'd best learn how to do it, or find another job. Sometimes, we have to exceed our comfort zones.

I don't think one can claim to be "absolutely terrified" that one will not look good in photos. If one is, it's something beyond the normal discomfort some people have regarding having their picture taken.

I agree that the lack of patience the OP has noted is that, to the person taking the photo, the intent is not to see someone looking better or worse than they normally do. It's to "freeze" a moment that they will want to return to in memory, and be able to keep some of the details that we lose as time passes. "There we all were. We were happy that day, weren't we? So nice to think back on it...."

Refusing to take part in that sort of photo is irritating to many, because it's refusing to let the moment be captured in full. Only the OP can decide whether irritating her family (to a, hopefully, mild degree) is worse than knowing that a picture of her that may not do her appearance justice exists.

[Surianne]

I think where we differ is that I've never understood why simply saying "I prefer not to" isn't acceptable when it comes to declining photographs in a way it is with other things (say, declining to participate in an activity, declining to eat an offered slice of cake, or declining to attend an event).  A simple "No, thanks" should be acceptable without making someone a special snowflake or selfish.

I think the lack of patience with it comes because a photograph isn't about you, and isn't really FOR you. Refusing to participate in a big family photograph is not the same as refusing to eat a slice of cake or refusing to attend an event (though that could be pretty close in terms of hurt feelings, etc., depending on the importance of the event).

A photograph is specifically a gift for the other people who might look at it.

And its impact on you can be pretty minimal. The sort of people who delight in mocking you on Facebook because of the not-attractive photographs are VERY few and far between.

So you stand there patiently, and you smile for the 2 seconds after the photographer says "smile!" and then you go away. You never have to look at the photograph itself. It doesn't *need* to really impact you.

And do you think you are the only one who doesn't like how they look in photos? No, you're just the only one who thinks that somehow you SHOULD look good in all photos, or that the world should be shaped in a way that YOUR concerns about photos should be catered to, even if the rest of us have gotten over the self-consciousness. And you come across excessively self-focused.

Honestly, the rest of us don't care that you look a little doofus-y. Your insistance on avoiding the photo just makes you seem more selfish; WE all look a little doofus-y, but we sit there and smile so that our family and friends can look at pictures later and love us from afar.

Do you like to see photographs of other people? If you have *ever* enjoyed looking at a pic of your cousins / your kid / your parents / your friends, then you need to do your part. Suck it up and smile, and then just neglect/refuse to look at the photograph afterward. Or, when you do look at it, look at the OTHER people in the picture.

I have a LOT more sympathy for people who say, "please don't take candids of me," and very little for people who won't stand in the group photo of the family for a couple of seconds.

Being rude about it is rude. Rude to the person who doesn't want to get their picture taken AND rude to the other people bcs the bully/sneak/whatever is making a fuss.


(as for digital photos--I'm personally not that worried about group family photos.)

That was incredibly insulting and mean, Toots, particularly the bolded.  Really not okay, at all.

[auntmeegs]

I think where we differ is that I've never understood why simply saying "I prefer not to" isn't acceptable when it comes to declining photographs in a way it is with other things (say, declining to participate in an activity, declining to eat an offered slice of cake, or declining to attend an event).  A simple "No, thanks" should be acceptable without making someone a special snowflake or selfish.

I think the lack of patience with it comes because a photograph isn't about you, and isn't really FOR you. Refusing to participate in a big family photograph is not the same as refusing to eat a slice of cake or refusing to attend an event (though that could be pretty close in terms of hurt feelings, etc., depending on the importance of the event).

A photograph is specifically a gift for the other people who might look at it.

And its impact on you can be pretty minimal. The sort of people who delight in mocking you on Facebook because of the not-attractive photographs are VERY few and far between.

So you stand there patiently, and you smile for the 2 seconds after the photographer says "smile!" and then you go away. You never have to look at the photograph itself. It doesn't *need* to really impact you.

And do you think you are the only one who doesn't like how they look in photos? No, you're just the only one who thinks that somehow you SHOULD look good in all photos, or that the world should be shaped in a way that YOUR concerns about photos should be catered to, even if the rest of us have gotten over the self-consciousness. And you come across excessively self-focused.

Honestly, the rest of us don't care that you look a little doofus-y. Your insistance on avoiding the photo just makes you seem more selfish; WE all look a little doofus-y, but we sit there and smile so that our family and friends can look at pictures later and love us from afar.

Do you like to see photographs of other people? If you have *ever* enjoyed looking at a pic of your cousins / your kid / your parents / your friends, then you need to do your part. Suck it up and smile, and then just neglect/refuse to look at the photograph afterward. Or, when you do look at it, look at the OTHER people in the picture.

I have a LOT more sympathy for people who say, "please don't take candids of me," and very little for people who won't stand in the group photo of the family for a couple of seconds.

Being rude about it is rude. Rude to the person who doesn't want to get their picture taken AND rude to the other people bcs the bully/sneak/whatever is making a fuss.


(as for digital photos--I'm personally not that worried about group family photos.)

That was incredibly insulting and mean, Toots, particularly the bolded.  Really not okay, at all.

What about it was insulting and mean? 

[Surianne]

The section I bolded, auntmeegs:

And do you think you are the only one who doesn't like how they look in photos? No, you're just the only one who thinks that somehow you SHOULD look good in all photos, or that the world should be shaped in a way that YOUR concerns about photos should be catered to, even if the rest of us have gotten over the self-consciousness. And you come across excessively self-focused.

Shouting, insults, and bizarre assumptions about what I think that were overly personalized (YOUR!!!) for reasons I can't fathom.  There was absolutely no reason Toots needed to go that far in making her point, whatever it is.

[bansidhe]

What exactly is meant by "absolutely terrified"? If it means full-flown panic attack, that's a disability, but one that should be treated by therapy, particularly if it's something related to one's employment. If your boss wants you to speak in public as part of your job, you'd best learn how to do it, or find another job. Sometimes, we have to exceed our comfort zones.

Which is why my example specifically did not include a work scenario.

I don't think one can claim to be "absolutely terrified" that one will not look good in photos. If one is, it's something beyond the normal discomfort some people have regarding having their picture taken.

I've known quite a few people who go beyond the normal discomfort level where pictures are concerned. It's not the norm, obviously, but it's not uncommon either. In any case, it's not for other people to decide if and when someone should be pushed out of her comfort zone.

If someone at your (general "your") family reunion dinner is squicked out by the sight of mushrooms and has thus never tried them, would it be OK to pressure that person to try your special mushroom casserole? Nope. And no, I don't see any difference in importance between this scenario and a picture-taking scenario.

I agree that the lack of patience the OP has noted is that, to the person taking the photo, the intent is not to see someone looking better or worse than they normally do. It's to "freeze" a moment that they will want to return to in memory, and be able to keep some of the details that we lose as time passes. "There we all were. We were happy that day, weren't we? So nice to think back on it...."

Refusing to take part in that sort of photo is irritating to many, because it's refusing to let the moment be captured in full.

At the risk of sounding harsh, tough. It's not the responsibility of others to capture moments or make memories for anyone else. If it happens, fine. If it doesn't, well, that's life.

[snowdragon]

Personally, I do not take pictures.   And I am willing to pay the price for it.  It's my face, my image in that photo and I get to control when it is taken.  You can call me all the names you like, but the fact that you need to resort to that or whining, bullying and sneaking tells me that the one who thinks it's all about them - is not the person opting out of pictures. Its the one who can't accept it.
  Why exactly does someone else get to make this determination for another person?    This type of crap is part of the reason why I do not do family parties anymore. I have not been to one in 30 years.  When people start forcing pictures --- they might want to consider what the end result will be, and if not seeing folks because of their "need" to dictate pictures is actually worth it.

[Wordgeek]

This isn't even in the neighborhood of being a productive discussion.