Author Topic: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?  (Read 21237 times)

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Dalek

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #105 on: February 22, 2013, 12:53:12 PM »
If there were 20 cheese sticks , the mom may have been worried some would go to waste. It that her DD would fill up and not be able to eat her meal.

The mom was wrong to get the rest of table involved in her parenting. If she wanted her DD eating the whole plate, she should have told her before she ordered.
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Christabeldreams

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #106 on: February 22, 2013, 12:54:42 PM »
If there were 20 cheese sticks , the mom may have been worried some would go to waste. It that her DD would fill up and not be able to eat her meal.

The mom was wrong to get the rest of table involved in her parenting. If she wanted her DD eating the whole plate, she should have told her before she ordered.

OP again, and as I should have stated in my first post, the appetizer was small, meant for one, maybe two people.

Aeris

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #107 on: February 22, 2013, 12:56:26 PM »
instead of thinking of it as a fun night out, the OP is left wondering whether people were complicit in taking away a kid's food.

I really think this is exaggeration. The child was not going to go hungry. She presumably had a meal ciming inaddition to the appetizer. Whatever the opinion about the mom's offer, she was not taking food from her starving child's mouth.

You miss the point. The moment was uncomfortable for the group because the group is left wondering if they were party to and involved in a bizarre and rude exchange between mother and child. If it was *not* a bizarre and rude exchange between mother and child, then the mother did a terrible job communicating *to the group* that what was happening was perfectly alright.

If the understanding between mother and child had always been that apps were shared, the mother should have prodded the daughter to share the app herself, or at the very least gone through the motions out loud of asking the daughter if she minded her app being shared. It would have involved the daughter in the 'sharing' in a way that signaled to the group that the daughter was in on it, either as a decision or as a rule.

Since the mother did not involve the daughter in any way, and the daughter's face betrayed surprised and possible hurt, those watching are left uncomfortably wondering what the heck is going on.

Aeris

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #108 on: February 22, 2013, 12:59:24 PM »
He wouldn't have to ask if he could have some, he would already know that he could.

If the point is to remind you of the sharing rule I would much rather that he ask a question he already knew the answer to to prompt you to share, rather then act like your parent and just hand it out to other people. I feel that just taking someone's plate and passing it around without even discussing it with the person who ordered it is much much ruder and would consider it a red flag. Even if I knew that your rule was to share apps. I would be taken aback at that type of behavior.

I think the bolded is the sticking point. It's not my plate just because I was the one that ordered it.  It belongs to the table. I ordered it for the table.  I expect anyone at the table who wants some to take some.  I've honestly never eaten at a restaurant with a group where anyone ordered an appetizer just for themselves.  It's always been my experience that appetizers are for sharing and don't belong to any one person.

It's also a very different thing to assume that YOUR appetizer is not really yours, but rather the table's, and to assume that Joe's appetizer is not really Joe's, but rather the table's.

If you found yourself at a restaurant with a group of friends and Joe ordered himself an appetizer, which he began to eat without offering it to the table, would you just grab it for yourself from in front of him on the assumption it was meant for the table? I would think not.

Aeris

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #109 on: February 22, 2013, 01:06:07 PM »
Nope, it is not "OK" for a mother to take her child's food away without asking permission first. This isn't a matter of parental authority - it is general politeness.

Let's say you were eating with a married couple. The wife orders an appetizer, and when it arrives, as she starts to take a mouthful, her husband grabs the plate and asks, "Does anyone want some of my wife's appetizers?" Would you not think, at a minimum, he is being rude to her, in not at least asking, "Hey, can we share those?"

If the family tradition is to share appetizers, it does not spare the mother from the minimal common courtesy to her child to ask, "Hey, can we have some?" Basic politeness requires you to ask such a question, even if the expected answer is "yes, of course".

We have an "appetizers are to be shared family", so your scenario above would be fine with me. No, more than fine; it would be expected. My kids are always welcome to order an appetizer if they want one, but they know it's for the whole table. There would not need to be a discussion because that's the way we've always done it.

I don't think that we can know, without knowing if child in question comes from an "apps are to be shared" family, if the mom was rude or not. Nor do I think we should try to read anything into her facial expression.

In that situation I would expect the wife to pick up her plate and ask if anyone wants some of her appetizer. If her husband did it I would be making some uncharitable assumptions about him.

You will think what you will, but he would not be rude. Not in my family, and not in many others.  If this were my husband and I, I would be the rude one for forgetting to offer the app to the others at the table.

If that is your rule then I would expect him to gently nudge you with a "hey can I have that" or something similar to remind you of the rule. but to just take a plate from in front of someone and offer it to others strikes me as boorish and controlling and I would be watching the relationship more closely to see if I should be offering any extra help. This would also go if the wife offered the husband's food.

Seriously. If a husband grabbed his wife's app and offered it to the table, I'd immediately look to her. If she indicated, by facial expression or otherwise, that she was fully supportive of the offer, I'd think it was a joint decision. But if she looked weirded out, surprised, or remotely upset, I'd assume he was being a jerk.

And if my SO and I had a perpetual understanding of 'apps are always shared with groups', and one day we were with a group and he seemed to be hogging the app he ordered, the most I would do would be nudge him and say softly, "want to put that in the middle?". I would never, in a million years, just grab it from in front of him and offer it myself when it looked like he wasn't going to. It feels incredibly disrespectful.

citadelle

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #110 on: February 22, 2013, 01:10:14 PM »

Since the mother did not involve the daughter in any way, and the daughter's face betrayed surprised and possible hurt, those watching are left uncomfortably wondering what the heck is going on.

My daughter looks surprised/hurt/maybe even angry when I ask her to share toys with others, too. But she should still share. She isn't going without the toys, and she isn't going hungry, either.

Because this exchange involves food, it seems to strike a very deep, primal chord. But it is still just some cheese sticks. The girl is not going without food.

Judah

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #111 on: February 22, 2013, 01:10:24 PM »
He wouldn't have to ask if he could have some, he would already know that he could.

If the point is to remind you of the sharing rule I would much rather that he ask a question he already knew the answer to to prompt you to share, rather then act like your parent and just hand it out to other people. I feel that just taking someone's plate and passing it around without even discussing it with the person who ordered it is much much ruder and would consider it a red flag. Even if I knew that your rule was to share apps. I would be taken aback at that type of behavior.

I think the bolded is the sticking point. It's not my plate just because I was the one that ordered it.  It belongs to the table. I ordered it for the table.  I expect anyone at the table who wants some to take some.  I've honestly never eaten at a restaurant with a group where anyone ordered an appetizer just for themselves.  It's always been my experience that appetizers are for sharing and don't belong to any one person.

It's also a very different thing to assume that YOUR appetizer is not really yours, but rather the table's, and to assume that Joe's appetizer is not really Joe's, but rather the table's.

If you found yourself at a restaurant with a group of friends and Joe ordered himself an appetizer, which he began to eat without offering it to the table, would you just grab it for yourself from in front of him on the assumption it was meant for the table? I would think not.

As I said, I've never experienced someone ordering an app just for themselves.  I understand that other posters have had very different experiences than I have, but that doesn't change my experience. We don't know the appetizer dynamic for this family, we don't know why the mother offered the food, or why the daughter's expression changed. Maybe the mother was rude, maybe she was just following the usual family practice. We don't know. But in my family, with my kids and husband, this would not have been rude; it would have been expected. 
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Jones

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #112 on: February 22, 2013, 01:12:48 PM »
I vote the mom was rude, particularly since the app was single person sized, and Mom acknowledged it wasn't hers by referring to it as her daughter's.

As a side note, I have never heard of a blanket "must share apps" rule before this thread.

Aeris

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #113 on: February 22, 2013, 01:17:43 PM »
He wouldn't have to ask if he could have some, he would already know that he could.

If the point is to remind you of the sharing rule I would much rather that he ask a question he already knew the answer to to prompt you to share, rather then act like your parent and just hand it out to other people. I feel that just taking someone's plate and passing it around without even discussing it with the person who ordered it is much much ruder and would consider it a red flag. Even if I knew that your rule was to share apps. I would be taken aback at that type of behavior.

I think the bolded is the sticking point. It's not my plate just because I was the one that ordered it.  It belongs to the table. I ordered it for the table.  I expect anyone at the table who wants some to take some.  I've honestly never eaten at a restaurant with a group where anyone ordered an appetizer just for themselves.  It's always been my experience that appetizers are for sharing and don't belong to any one person.

It's also a very different thing to assume that YOUR appetizer is not really yours, but rather the table's, and to assume that Joe's appetizer is not really Joe's, but rather the table's.

If you found yourself at a restaurant with a group of friends and Joe ordered himself an appetizer, which he began to eat without offering it to the table, would you just grab it for yourself from in front of him on the assumption it was meant for the table? I would think not.

As I said, I've never experienced someone ordering an app just for themselves.  I understand that other posters have had very different experiences than I have, but that doesn't change my experience. We don't know the appetizer dynamic for this family, we don't know why the mother offered the food, or why the daughter's expression changed. Maybe the mother was rude, maybe she was just following the usual family practice. We don't know. But in my family, with my kids and husband, this would not have been rude; it would have been expected.

That is why I did not ask what you have done in the past. I asked what you would do IF you found yourself in a situation where someone ordered an appetizer and began to eat it without offering it to the group. I do assume you would not just grab the plate from out of in front of him, but I'm interested to hear if you would.


Aeris

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #114 on: February 22, 2013, 01:23:58 PM »

Since the mother did not involve the daughter in any way, and the daughter's face betrayed surprised and possible hurt, those watching are left uncomfortably wondering what the heck is going on.

My daughter looks surprised/hurt/maybe even angry when I ask her to share toys with others, too. But she should still share. She isn't going without the toys, and she isn't going hungry, either.

Because this exchange involves food, it seems to strike a very deep, primal chord. But it is still just some cheese sticks. The girl is not going without food.

This isn't about the girl 'going without food'. No one is catastrophizing that the girl is starving, please don't pretend like we are.

But that doesn't change the fact that this was an uncomfortable exchange all around. If there is no family rule in place, then Mom was terribly rude to take away her daughter's plate, even if it was 'just some cheese sticks'. If there is a family rule in place, Mom would have been better served by reminding the daughter to share, rather than just snatching her plate away without even a word. That feels like a public punishment, and is uncomfortable even if you *know* they have an app-sharing rule.

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #115 on: February 22, 2013, 01:29:41 PM »
I agree wholeheartedly with Aeris. The mom may or may not have been rude to the daughter, depending on family dynamics, but that's not etiquette, that's parenting. The mom was definitely rude to the other diners, but not because sharing is or isn't inherently wrong. The mom was rude because she handled the app sharing in a way that made others uncomfortable.

It's not the end of the world, but she could have done a lot better.
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Judah

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #116 on: February 22, 2013, 01:35:46 PM »
That is why I did not ask what you have done in the past. I asked what you would do IF you found yourself in a situation where someone ordered an appetizer and began to eat it without offering it to the group. I do assume you would not just grab the plate from out of in front of him, but I'm interested to hear if you would.

If it were one of my siblings, kids, spouse, or inner circle type people, I might put some on my plate without asking and no one would think twice about it. If it were someone outside of my usual circle, I wouldn't just take some, but I would wonder, silently, why they weren't sharing.  But I don't see what that has to do with the situation in the OP.
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MariaE

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #117 on: February 22, 2013, 01:39:27 PM »
Aeris put it perfectly.

Like Jones, I'd never heard of a blanked "must share apps" rule before this thread either. Sharing apps may happen, but then it is discussed when ordering, and it is the exception rather than the rule. It would definitely not be taken for granted.
 
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citadelle

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #118 on: February 22, 2013, 01:41:15 PM »
Mom was terribly rude to take away her daughter's plate, even if it was 'just some cheese sticks'. If there is a family rule in place, Mom would have been better served by reminding the daughter to share, rather than just snatching her plate away without even a word. That feels like a public punishment, and is uncomfortable even if you *know* they have an app-sharing rule.

The verb snatching paints a very specific, punitive picture. I disagree that the action was necessarily punitive, because of the fact that the daughter had enough food to eat. That is why I commented about the fact that she wasn't starving.

Twik

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #119 on: February 22, 2013, 01:46:58 PM »
As a side note, I have never heard of a blanket "must share apps" rule before this thread.

Me neither. Sharing apps, yes. Assuming apps are always shared, no.

If the apps are for the table, that should be announced when ordering them. If not, they belong to the person who ordered them, and forced sharing is rude.

Really, it's not hard to clarify that when ordering. Also, if you intend to share, would it not be appropriate to ask if the apps suit the table? Ordering something "for the table" without checking if the table wants it is rude as well, IMO.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 01:49:05 PM by Twik »
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