Author Topic: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?  (Read 25488 times)

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Aeris

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #45 on: February 21, 2013, 09:43:52 PM »
This is really interesting to me! In our family of 5 appetizers are always shared. If there aren't enough to go around we'd order two plates. It would never occur to me not to offer a piece of our app to the other people at the table.

I'll generally offer a bit of mine if other people don't have any food yet, or offer to trade if they do have apps, but that only applies to ones that are "mine." (i.e. I wouldn't offer my partner's app unless I knew his plans for it.) And if I am given a piece of anyone's appetizer without having anything to trade for it, I will assume I should help pay for it. I've been known to decline the nibble if I know I can't afford a "share" in it.

I think that's where the divide is, how we all define whose app is it.

In our family DH and I wouldn't have separate apps. We'd agree on which one sounded good and order it to share. If the kids are with us we'd get two orders or we'd all agree one two different apps and share them.

In a family where the custom is that the app is only for the person who ordered it I do think anyone else would be rude to offer it around. I will occasionally order an app as my meal and then it is mine but I'd ask that it be served along with everyone else's meal so there was no confusion.

A lot of times with my SO, we do get something to split. But with a larger group, I might just pick something that looks particularly good to me, and maybe other people will agree to also get apps and we'll trade around. Basically, there's so much variation that I wouldn't want to assume, if I were the outsider to the family.

I often order an app to share with my SO. But we *discuss* that before we order, and agree to one that sounds good to both of us, and order it with the full understanding that we are sharing it. That doesn't sound at all like what happened here. But even in the prior-agreement situation, if my SO and I agreed to a particular appetizer between the two of us in the middle of a larger group meal, and he took the plate and offered it to the group without asking me, I'd be surprised and seriously ticked.

Yvaine

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #46 on: February 21, 2013, 09:46:19 PM »
This is really interesting to me! In our family of 5 appetizers are always shared. If there aren't enough to go around we'd order two plates. It would never occur to me not to offer a piece of our app to the other people at the table.

I'll generally offer a bit of mine if other people don't have any food yet, or offer to trade if they do have apps, but that only applies to ones that are "mine." (i.e. I wouldn't offer my partner's app unless I knew his plans for it.) And if I am given a piece of anyone's appetizer without having anything to trade for it, I will assume I should help pay for it. I've been known to decline the nibble if I know I can't afford a "share" in it.

I think that's where the divide is, how we all define whose app is it.

In our family DH and I wouldn't have separate apps. We'd agree on which one sounded good and order it to share. If the kids are with us we'd get two orders or we'd all agree one two different apps and share them.

In a family where the custom is that the app is only for the person who ordered it I do think anyone else would be rude to offer it around. I will occasionally order an app as my meal and then it is mine but I'd ask that it be served along with everyone else's meal so there was no confusion.

A lot of times with my SO, we do get something to split. But with a larger group, I might just pick something that looks particularly good to me, and maybe other people will agree to also get apps and we'll trade around. Basically, there's so much variation that I wouldn't want to assume, if I were the outsider to the family.

I often order an app to share with my SO. But we *discuss* that before we order, and agree to one that sounds good to both of us, and order it with the full understanding that we are sharing it. That doesn't sound at all like what happened here. But even in the prior-agreement situation, if my SO and I agreed to a particular appetizer between the two of us in the middle of a larger group meal, and he took the plate and offered it to the group without asking me, I'd be surprised and seriously ticked.

Totally agree. And if I were another friend at this meal, and I could see from your body language that you weren't cool with your SO offering it around, I wouldn't want to take any.

Because that's really what this is about--PPs, your families may have all sorts of rules and that's fine--but I think it best to err on the side of consideration when you're the non-family member witnessing the situation.

Onyx_TKD

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #47 on: February 21, 2013, 09:46:35 PM »
I'm torn on this. If the mother had offered up part of the daughter's entree (e.g. french fries), I would absolutely agree that this was not ok. For an appetizer it's not so clear-cut to me for several reasons.

1) Like some PPs, I have always seen appetizers as something to be shared. If that's the norm in this family, then the mother may have assumed that the daughter knew the appetizer would be shared. Often I've seen someone order an appetizer and offer it to the whole table once it came out. Sometimes I've seen it shared within a particular subgroup (e.g., within a family or among a few people planning to split the cost). In the latter case, it usually was a collective decision by the subgroup. However, I don't recall having ever dined with someone who ordered an appetizer to consume completely by themselves, unless they were ordering it in lieu of an entree. I've seen people order, e.g., an appetizer and a salad to serve as their meal. They usually specified that they were ordering the appetizer as their meal and had it brought out with the other entrees. In the OP's case, it was apparently ordered like a normal appetizer.

2) I wonder whether the daughter was actually "authorized" to order an appetizer for her personal consumption. If an appetizer (especially a personal appetizer) is not something the daughter has blanket permission to order, then the mother may have decided to avoid publicly contradicting the order and instead treat it as if Daughter was ordering the appetizer on behalf of their family (making it mom's prerogative as parent and payer-of-the-bill to offer it around). When I was a kid, meals out were generally an entree and a drink (soda, water, milk, etc.) for each person. Occasionally an appetizer (for the entire table) or dessert, at the discretion of whoever was paying. My parents never really restricted what we kids could order as our entrees--we could decide whether we wanted a large entree or a small one; we were welcome to add on the salad bar, etc. But I would never have ordered an appetizer or a dessert without discussing it with them first. I still wouldn't if the meal was their treat. IME, those simply aren't part of a meal out unless the person paying the bill specifically offers it.

I think it depends very much on the family rules/customs. If the daughter is typically allowed to order an appetizer for her own personal consumption as part of her meal, then I'd say it's rude to change the rules on her with no warning and start sharing her food around the table. But if that's not an established custom in their family, then I lean towards the parent paying the bill having a perfect right to insist on sharing the appetizer.

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #48 on: February 21, 2013, 10:14:34 PM »
If, in your (general your) family, it is known that if you order an appetizer, it must be shared, that is fine,  But if you are dining with a mixed group and no one else brings up sharing an appetizer, I think it is rude for someone to start offering the food you ordered , that is sitting in front of them instead of the middle of the table, to others at the table. My family does not eat out often, but when we do (myself, DD 17 DD 6), they know they can order what they want (knowing they have to eat it all), and if my older DD wants to share an appetizer with me, fine, if not we get our own, altho sometimes the 6 yr old will take a bite.  Not that anyone else's way is wrong, it is the family rule, but I feel if this was the way the family did it, Mom should have said "My DD wants to order an appetizer for us all to share".  That way, everyone knows how it is going to be without the confusion over if it is all hers or a shared item.   

Sharnita

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2013, 10:17:38 PM »
I don't really get "where the food is" as a valid point.  I have seen apps ordered explicitly to be shared and placed only in front of one person.

Aeris

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2013, 10:36:11 PM »
I don't really get "where the food is" as a valid point.  I have seen apps ordered explicitly to be shared and placed only in front of one person.

In which case it would be the *person who ordered it's* responsibility to move that plate to the center of the table so as to indicate to the rest of the group that the app was meant for group consumption.

misha412

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #51 on: February 21, 2013, 11:13:29 PM »
My take is that the mother was rude.

She let the child order the appetizer, apparently without discussion of whether it was allowable or if it was going to be for everyone. She then proceeded to take the appetizer specifically ordered by her daughter and offered it to everyone without even speaking to her daughter about it.

Just because the child is 12 does not mean she should not be accorded a modicum of respect. If the mother did not want her to have the appetizer, stopping her from ordering it in the first place was the way to go. If the mother did not expect her to order it, but saw that she did, the mother should have spoke with the girl about the intentions of the appetizer (sharing or only for girl). When the order arrived, the mother could have quietly asked the girl if she intended to share. Any of those scenarios would have been treating her daughter with respect.

If I were the OP, I would have declined the offer. The girl was obviously ordering for herself.

sweetonsno

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #52 on: February 22, 2013, 01:44:35 AM »
Based on the information given, I think the mom was rude. What has essentially happened is that Mom gave her daughter a gift and then took part of it away to give to someone else. Over and over on eHell we see that once you give a gift, it is no longer yours. The recipient can do with it what he or she wishes.

Yes, in some families, appetizers are automatically supposed to be shared or offered. However, we have no evidence that is the case here.

We have a young woman ordering an appetizer without comment from her mom (who is presumably paying), then we have mom physically taking the appetizer away (again without comment) to offer it to someone else. If Mom wanted the appetizer to be shared, she should have clued her DD in either when she ordered ("Cheese sticks sound great. Let's share them.") or quietly when DD started digging in ("Don't forget to offer them to our friends, DD.")

PeterM

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #53 on: February 22, 2013, 02:16:07 AM »
We don't know that the daughter was surprised, just that she looked surprised.

The only way that sentence makes sense to me is if you're accusing the daughter of feigning surprise. Which doesn't make sense to me.

Quote
If she had forgotten about the rule up until the moment that her mother offered everyone, that could also explain that look of surprise.

If she had forgotten some rule that we have absolutely no evidence exists in their family, she would've been surprised by her mother's actions. She wouldn't have just looked surprised.

PeterM

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #54 on: February 22, 2013, 02:26:08 AM »
Is this only because she's a minor? I don't think every appetizer is automatically "for the table" unless something is actually said. There's no way I'd feel entitled to a friend's appetizer if it looked like she was ordering it as a complement to her meal rather than as a shared dish, and that would extend to a friend's kid too.

At what point did I imply the app was "for the table" or that the OP or anyone else was "entitled?"  The mother offered

It wasn't the mother's food to offer, unless you think the fact she was paying for it makes it so. In which case, I have to ask if you'd apply that rule to any instance where someone is paying for another's food. If the daughter was ten or fifteen years older, for example, would you be okay with the mother offering her appetizer to the table?

Or what if it's a work outing, with the boss or company paying? Can the boss offer up an employee's appetizer to the table?

Perfect Circle

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #55 on: February 22, 2013, 03:59:45 AM »
It would never cross my mind to share my child's food with anyone if she had chosen her meal and was eating it happily. I am happy to order a shared appetiser or sides but only if it has been discussed prior to the order.  As far as I am concerned it's my child's food, she is entitled to eat what she ordered and I don't have the right to go and hand some of it over to someone else.
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MariaE

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #56 on: February 22, 2013, 04:32:43 AM »
Based on the information given, I think the mom was rude. What has essentially happened is that Mom gave her daughter a gift and then took part of it away to give to someone else. Over and over on eHell we see that once you give a gift, it is no longer yours. The recipient can do with it what he or she wishes.

Yes, in some families, appetizers are automatically supposed to be shared or offered. However, we have no evidence that is the case here.

We have a young woman ordering an appetizer without comment from her mom (who is presumably paying), then we have mom physically taking the appetizer away (again without comment) to offer it to someone else. If Mom wanted the appetizer to be shared, she should have clued her DD in either when she ordered ("Cheese sticks sound great. Let's share them.") or quietly when DD started digging in ("Don't forget to offer them to our friends, DD.")

I completely agree with this. Even if it was standard in the family, the mother should have allowed DD to offer them up for sharing. What she did was incredibly rude.
 
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m2kbug

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #57 on: February 22, 2013, 06:44:27 AM »
Is this only because she's a minor? I don't think every appetizer is automatically "for the table" unless something is actually said. There's no way I'd feel entitled to a friend's appetizer if it looked like she was ordering it as a complement to her meal rather than as a shared dish, and that would extend to a friend's kid too.

At what point did I imply the app was "for the table" or that the OP or anyone else was "entitled?"  The mother offered

It wasn't the mother's food to offer, unless you think the fact she was paying for it makes it so. In which case, I have to ask if you'd apply that rule to any instance where someone is paying for another's food. If the daughter was ten or fifteen years older, for example, would you be okay with the mother offering her appetizer to the table?

Or what if it's a work outing, with the boss or company paying? Can the boss offer up an employee's appetizer to the table?

I never said that the appetizer was automatically "for the table" or that anyone was "entitled" to it.  That is where I take exception. Whether or not the mother was out of line is in question, but at no point did I say the other table guests were "entitled" to the appetizer.

FlyingBaconMouse

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #58 on: February 22, 2013, 08:27:16 AM »
My take is that the mother was rude.

She let the child order the appetizer, apparently without discussion of whether it was allowable or if it was going to be for everyone. She then proceeded to take the appetizer specifically ordered by her daughter and offered it to everyone without even speaking to her daughter about it.

Just because the child is 12 does not mean she should not be accorded a modicum of respect. If the mother did not want her to have the appetizer, stopping her from ordering it in the first place was the way to go. If the mother did not expect her to order it, but saw that she did, the mother should have spoke with the girl about the intentions of the appetizer (sharing or only for girl). When the order arrived, the mother could have quietly asked the girl if she intended to share. Any of those scenarios would have been treating her daughter with respect.

If I were the OP, I would have declined the offer. The girl was obviously ordering for herself.

That's my take on it. If it was a house rule, then why didn't the mom say something when they ordered, like "Remember, those will be for the whole table"—especially if the kid just came from practice and is likely to be hungry enough to forget that?

When I was out with family as a child, I saw that kind of conversation happen all the time. It would simultaneously remind the child to share and let the other diners know it was okay to share the app.
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NyaChan

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #59 on: February 22, 2013, 08:33:51 AM »
If I ordered an appetizer with my meal and no one else did, I would feel somewhat obligated to at least offer it around, especially if I had food in front of me and no one else did.  I don't think the mom did anything wrong here.  I think this is one of those cases where it would be rude for a non-parental person to do it, but IMO being a parent comes with some leeway in terms what is and isn't rude to do with your child.  There are any number of reasons why the mom might have offered it around - perceived need to be polite, maybe the kid wasn't supposed to eat so much cheese, maybe mom had reason for not wanting her to eat so much at that point.  It isn't as if the mom pried the food from her daughter's hands as she protested.  Not a big deal.