Author Topic: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?  (Read 23357 times)

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PeterM

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #165 on: February 23, 2013, 04:19:28 AM »
If there were only 4 cheesesticks, sharing with 2 other people at the table was probably inappropriate and mom probably shouldn't have offered.  I had 10 to 20 cheesesticks in my mind, and sharing one or two did not seem like a big deal, especially in light of a meal to follow.

Have you ever actually seen an appetizer order that had 20 cheese sticks? I'm pretty sure I've never seen a single order that broke double digits, and I've never even heard of anything I'd describe as "an appetizer" with no qualifications that came anywhere near 20 cheese sticks per order.

MariaE

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #166 on: February 23, 2013, 04:48:00 AM »
If there were only 4 cheesesticks, sharing with 2 other people at the table was probably inappropriate and mom probably shouldn't have offered.  I had 10 to 20 cheesesticks in my mind, and sharing one or two did not seem like a big deal, especially in light of a meal to follow.

Have you ever actually seen an appetizer order that had 20 cheese sticks? I'm pretty sure I've never seen a single order that broke double digits, and I've never even heard of anything I'd describe as "an appetizer" with no qualifications that came anywhere near 20 cheese sticks per order.

Same. It would either be 4-6 cheese sticks (or whatever) or it would say clearly in the menu:"Enough to share", "For two people" or something similar.
 
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Diane AKA Traska

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #167 on: February 23, 2013, 05:40:45 AM »
I've never heard this rule about appetizers must be shared.  Heck, I've never even heard of appetizers being shared.  When I order food, I order what I want to eat.  M and I *might* trade halves of each other's appetizers, but I'd never feel entitled to it.  Also, I don't know what Wide Wide World of Food places there are out there, but 20 mozzarella sticks?  That's not an appetizer, it's an artery glue gun.  I've never gotten more than five sticks when I ordered them.  What about fries?  Are fries to be shared also?

I further want to know... why are appetizers different?  What makes them not able to be possessed by an individual?  Because to me, ownership of one's food is an important step in learning self-determination.  I considered myself on the road to adulthood the first time I cooked fro myself (not microwaving or reheating, but cooking from scratch.)
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starry diadem

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #168 on: February 23, 2013, 08:25:28 AM »
I'm flummoxed both by the assumption 'appetisers' must be shared or that they are somehow separate from the meal that so many posters have said would follow.

This may be because there's no precision about terminology.  To me, the appetiser is something like the little bowl of olives and/or nuts that the restaurant puts on the table for you to nibble on while you consider the menu (and coincidentally to make you eat less, so they can serve smaller portions of the expensive food and make a bigger profit, but that may be just me being cynical).  These are something quite separate from the meal itself and absolutely are for sharing with everyone at the table.

I put 'appetiser' in quotes above because what we appear to be talking about in this case is a starter course - that is, something you have to order at the same time you order your main course, but which is served separately first (yes, I'm dotting i's and crossing t's here, but I want to be very clear).  I can't for the life of me see why that is automatically for sharing, unless previously agreed before the order goes in.  DH and I may agree we'll share a portion of garlic bread or something similar, but that's part of our discussion of the menu.  There's no presumption that we'll share, especially if we only order one because one of us doesn't want a starter.  If that's the case here, and I think it is, then this isn't something separate from the child's meal but an integral part of it, and it *is* rude to take the plate away from her and share it out with those people who didn't, for whatever reason, order a starter.  And that's why it puzzles me that so many people suggest she still had her meal to follow.  She had her main course to follow, but part of her entire meal was shared, and not of her own volition.

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Venus193

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #169 on: February 23, 2013, 09:12:23 AM »

This comes down to how people perceive the child and the situation.

If the parents respect their 12 year old as an individual who should have a say over the food they ordered, asking or prompting would be appropriate.

If the parents believe that if they are paying for the food they have the right to do with it as they please, asking has no place in their perception. Basically the 12 year old should be grateful for a meal and not expect that her meal is hers if the parent decides otherwise. This would include appetizers, entrees, sides, desserts, and drinks.

That would explain the behavior but not justify it.

I still think this mother was rude.  Had I been there I might have said "No thanks. Sarah's had a very active morning; she needs to eat."

jaxsue

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #170 on: February 23, 2013, 09:36:22 AM »
Aeris put it perfectly.

Like Jones, I'd never heard of a blanked "must share apps" rule before this thread either. Sharing apps may happen, but then it is discussed when ordering, and it is the exception rather than the rule. It would definitely not be taken for granted.

ITA.

I do share apps, but I make a point that they are for everyone when ordered. If someone else orders an app and doesn't offer it to others at the table, I don't assume they're up for grabs.

The one situation where I don't share apps is when it's my meal, and in that case I request that it comes when everyone else gets their food.

Bethalize

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #171 on: February 23, 2013, 11:10:33 AM »
Was it right to go off?

Control over someone else's food is a dominance issue, so yes, it would set my hinky meter off. If it was a husband offering a wife's food up I'd be unimpressed. If the mother knew the child would spoil her main course by eating the full plateful she shouldn't have allowed the order.

Tea Drinker

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #172 on: February 23, 2013, 11:25:34 AM »
With regard to ruining the 12-year-old's appetite for the main course:

That only feels like an issue to me would be if there were major nutritional issues, and I don't think that applies here, since an athlete who has just come from practice needs those calories and protein and will probably be fine with the fat. It's not the same as eating a huge chocolate bar and then not having room for dinner.

I went out for dinner with my mother and my husband last night. I cheerfully ordered an appetizer, and commented at the time that this might mean I took my main course home for later. In the end, we did have them wrap it up, leaving room for dessert. This works well for me because I like variety--and the leftover duck from last night is going to be today's lunch.

The dessert was a bit of an indulgence, and there'd be nothing rude in a parent telling the 12-year-old "no, finish your rice/chicken/vegetables." But with most entrees, taking them home for later isn't wasted food (especially if you have a microwave). I'm assuming this wasn't a financial issue, or the mother would have said something about "remember, we agreed no appetizers" or something: it doesn't save money to let the 12-year-old order cheese sticks and then take some of them away from her.
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Twik

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #173 on: February 23, 2013, 11:32:12 AM »
Basically the 12 year old should be grateful for a meal and not expect that her meal is hers if the parent decides otherwise. This would include appetizers, entrees, sides, desserts, and drinks.

No. Children are entitled to be provided for by their parents. Food is not something that parents provide as an exercise in charity, any more than education, shelter or clothing. Judith Martin wrote an excellent article in which she said that there is something very wrong in expecting minor children to treat such things as presents on behalf of the parents, which the parents could withdraw at any moment.

Parents are obligated to feed their children, and also to teach them civilized behaviour. This is not done by playing, "Here, this is yours ... oops, now I'm giving it to someone else. Because you don't really have anything other than what I may (temporarily) give you."

I would give the mother a break for no more than creating an awkward impression if it is a family tradition, understood by the daughter, that appetizers are for the table. If she's playing power games ("You should be grateful I don't make you sit there, without any food at all, while the rest of us eat, because every mouthful you eat is at my discretion,") she is toxic.
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Diane AKA Traska

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #174 on: February 23, 2013, 11:40:20 AM »
No. Children are entitled to be provided for by their parents. Food is not something that parents provide as an exercise in charity, any more than education, shelter or clothing.

I wanted to say this, but honestly, not having children I didn't know if it was my place.  Thank you.

Related story: Once, when I was a youngin', we lived with particularly toxic people.    I'm not getting into the details, as they truly aren't important, but let's say for argument's sake that the husband of the family (Al) was supposed to watch over their kids and myself while my mother and the wife of the family (Betty) went out to do school clothing shopping for us.  Al's glasses got broken by accident when he sat on them, and he accused us of putting them there for that purpose.

When Mom and Betty got home, he relayed this to my mother, who believed me when I said I was innocent.  When Mom took me to the bedroom to show me what she'd gotten, Betty exclaimed "Wait, you're still giving those to D?!"

Mom, for her part, look at Betty as if she'd suddenly grown a second head that plays The Merry-G-Round Broke Down while it dispenses soft-serve, and said to her "D needs clothes, and I bought them for him for school.  What am I supposed to do, make D go naked?"

We didn't stay there much longer.  Sorry for threadjack/diversion.  Play on!
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m2kbug

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #175 on: February 23, 2013, 12:14:08 PM »
If there were only 4 cheesesticks, sharing with 2 other people at the table was probably inappropriate and mom probably shouldn't have offered.  I had 10 to 20 cheesesticks in my mind, and sharing one or two did not seem like a big deal, especially in light of a meal to follow.

Have you ever actually seen an appetizer order that had 20 cheese sticks? I'm pretty sure I've never seen a single order that broke double digits, and I've never even heard of anything I'd describe as "an appetizer" with no qualifications that came anywhere near 20 cheese sticks per order.

Actually I have, but that was years ago.  Most of the time it's 8 or 10.  I don't eat out much or order appetizers when I do, so I can't really speak about what the norm is, but in my experience, it's been 8 to 10.  Maybe some places have dropped it to about 6.  You end up having to buy more appetizers for 4 or more people. 

The pizza place I like to order from used to have 12 but later dropped to 10, then 8.  Eight cheesesticks for a table of 4...maybe you want to get 2 appetizers or be happy with 2 cheesesticks each.  If this was 8 cheesesticks and the OP, her friend, and mom each had 1, the child would still have 5.  If there were only 4 cheesesticks, that's not really an app made for 4 people, is it? 

Moray

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #176 on: February 23, 2013, 12:26:33 PM »
If there were only 4 cheesesticks, sharing with 2 other people at the table was probably inappropriate and mom probably shouldn't have offered.  I had 10 to 20 cheesesticks in my mind, and sharing one or two did not seem like a big deal, especially in light of a meal to follow.

Have you ever actually seen an appetizer order that had 20 cheese sticks? I'm pretty sure I've never seen a single order that broke double digits, and I've never even heard of anything I'd describe as "an appetizer" with no qualifications that came anywhere near 20 cheese sticks per order.

Actually I have, but that was years ago.  Most of the time it's 8 or 10.  I don't eat out much or order appetizers when I do, so I can't really speak about what the norm is, but in my experience, it's been 8 to 10.  Maybe some places have dropped it to about 6.  You end up having to buy more appetizers for 4 or more people. 

The pizza place I like to order from used to have 12 but later dropped to 10, then 8.  Eight cheesesticks for a table of 4...maybe you want to get 2 appetizers or be happy with 2 cheesesticks each.  If this was 8 cheesesticks and the OP, her friend, and mom each had 1, the child would still have 5.  If there were only 4 cheesesticks, that's not really an app made for 4 people, is it?

The OP has clarifed, a couple of times, that this was not a mega-app. It was a small serving designed for a single person.
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Sharnita

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #177 on: February 23, 2013, 12:30:05 PM »
If there were only 4 cheesesticks, sharing with 2 other people at the table was probably inappropriate and mom probably shouldn't have offered.  I had 10 to 20 cheesesticks in my mind, and sharing one or two did not seem like a big deal, especially in light of a meal to follow.

Have you ever actually seen an appetizer order that had 20 cheese sticks? I'm pretty sure I've never seen a single order that broke double digits, and I've never even heard of anything I'd describe as "an appetizer" with no qualifications that came anywhere near 20 cheese sticks per order.

Actually I have, but that was years ago.  Most of the time it's 8 or 10.  I don't eat out much or order appetizers when I do, so I can't really speak about what the norm is, but in my experience, it's been 8 to 10.  Maybe some places have dropped it to about 6.  You end up having to buy more appetizers for 4 or more people. 

The pizza place I like to order from used to have 12 but later dropped to 10, then 8.  Eight cheesesticks for a table of 4...maybe you want to get 2 appetizers or be happy with 2 cheesesticks each.  If this was 8 cheesesticks and the OP, her friend, and mom each had 1, the child would still have 5.  If there were only 4 cheesesticks, that's not really an app made for 4 people, is it?

The OP has clarifed, a couple of times, that this was not a mega-app. It was a small serving designed for a single person.

The original comment was made before that clarification.  Then the question was asked whether there are ever apps that big, not whether it was that big in the OP.

Aeris

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #178 on: February 23, 2013, 12:36:03 PM »
Perhaps it depends on the type of restaurant. I know when I have gone to places like Olive Garden or other chains, the apps tended to be larger (with some advertised as 'sampler platters'), while the small non-chain local restaurants in my neighborhood all have appetizers that are clearly designed for one person, both in size and construction (not pieces easily shared).

I've never before heard the distinction between 'starters' and 'appetizers'. I think it's a good way to think about it, as clearly there are two categories of food that comes before the entree, but I just don't believe that those words have taken on the distinct meanings given them in this thread. I spent a bit of time on menupages.com glancing at menus, and there doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason. Most places either have a 'starters' section OR an 'appetizers' section, but not both.

m2kbug

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Re: Rude to offer child’s appetizer to others?
« Reply #179 on: February 23, 2013, 12:44:24 PM »
If there were only 4 cheesesticks, sharing with 2 other people at the table was probably inappropriate and mom probably shouldn't have offered.  I had 10 to 20 cheesesticks in my mind, and sharing one or two did not seem like a big deal, especially in light of a meal to follow.

Have you ever actually seen an appetizer order that had 20 cheese sticks? I'm pretty sure I've never seen a single order that broke double digits, and I've never even heard of anything I'd describe as "an appetizer" with no qualifications that came anywhere near 20 cheese sticks per order.

Actually I have, but that was years ago.  Most of the time it's 8 or 10.  I don't eat out much or order appetizers when I do, so I can't really speak about what the norm is, but in my experience, it's been 8 to 10.  Maybe some places have dropped it to about 6.  You end up having to buy more appetizers for 4 or more people. 

The pizza place I like to order from used to have 12 but later dropped to 10, then 8.  Eight cheesesticks for a table of 4...maybe you want to get 2 appetizers or be happy with 2 cheesesticks each.  If this was 8 cheesesticks and the OP, her friend, and mom each had 1, the child would still have 5.  If there were only 4 cheesesticks, that's not really an app made for 4 people, is it?

The OP has clarifed, a couple of times, that this was not a mega-app. It was a small serving designed for a single person.

I was commenting on a question unrelated to the OP's question - are there ever 20 sticks?  My original opinion on OP's questions was based on more servings (enough for a table of four), before the OP clarified that the appetizer was really only meant for one or two people.