Vegetarian Question

[zinzin]

I said it in the previous thread, but it bears repeating.

I've been a vegetarian (except for the occasional piece of locally caught fresh fish) for almost 20 years. When I'm invited to a meal, I say, "I'd love to come! Since I'm a vegetarian, would you like me to bring a dish to share or should I eat something before hand?" I always get one of three answers:

1) "Don't worry about it! I've got a yummy vegetarian dish for you."
2) "Ooh, I'd love it if you could bring something to share. I was going to grill some steaks: do you have something that might go well with baked potatoes and creamed spinach?" (P.S. My goat cheese stuffed portabellas are amazing)
OR
3) "Hmm, I was planning on my great grandmother's signature 3 meat lasagna with prosciutto as an appetizer and bacon ice cream for dessert. But if you'd still like to come hang out, you're welcome to!"

It gives the host the chance to decide how comfortable they are with a vegetarian guest (and an easy out if the answer is "not at all") and I know that I'm going to have enough to eat, one way or the other.

I would consider  rude and likely never issue another invite.

Wait, I just need to clarify. You'd never invite someone again if they said "I'd love to come! Since I'm a vegetarian, would you like me to bring a dish to share or should I eat something before hand?". Do I understand you correctly?

They are telling me they can't trust me to feed them and find my hospitality lacking enough that they have to do either bring their own meal or eat before, they don't need to be burdened by my poor hospitality.   Especially since I have not committed any faux pas by issuing an invite - if someone does not trust me enough to allow me to ask about restrictions but makes the point of letting me know that they would prefer to either bring something to my table or eat before hand - then they don't trust me enough to be able comfortable in my home. The entire premise of that tactic is pretty insulting to the host.

  I eat vegetarian two or three times a week, I am not incapable of making a vegetarian meal...but the assumption that I can't or won't is insulting.   The hose sets the menu - guests don't over ride that by bringing over their own food.  OR would it be OK for me to bring a meat entree to a vegetarian home? If the answer is no for the meat eater, then it should be no for the vegetarian.
 

I feel like you might find it a happier way to go if you give people the benefit of the doubt rather than assuming they intended to insult you or doubt your hosting. Sometimes people are just trying to be nice and not be an imposition.

[Poppea]

As others said, I too think it's rude to show up with food without asking.  Especially with her history plus she makes it harder for other people with similar lifestyles as evidenced in this thread.


I wonder if the hostess asked her if she had any restrictions?  Or if the hostess knows she is a pescetarian?  Do you guys know for a fact she didn't ask the hostess or they have a long standing tradition of doing this?

In one example the hostess would have said to a group of friends "Hey, Hubby and I are going to grill out tonight.  Do you want to come over for burgers? "  Cue various friends asking if they could bring anything - side dishes, desserts?  FishGirl and husband show up with chunk of fish.

In another case the Southern Girl was having a themed dinner party and FishGirl brought a piece of fish to cook.  Southern Girl especially disliked having someone else trying to use her oven while she was preparing dinner.

If it makes a difference the fish is never brought over cooked.  And its always fish.

I don't have this problem with her at all since when I have large groups I serve a buffet with a variety of foods.  And I am careful about my guest list  for dinner parties.

ETA - Its seems that there are actually a variety of etiquette rules that conflict.  "Don't burden your hostess" "Take care of your guests"  "If you don't have something for everyone your shouldn't eat in front of them"

[Poppea]

I said it in the previous thread, but it bears repeating.

I've been a vegetarian (except for the occasional piece of locally caught fresh fish) for almost 20 years. When I'm invited to a meal, I say, "I'd love to come! Since I'm a vegetarian, would you like me to bring a dish to share or should I eat something before hand?" I always get one of three answers:

1) "Don't worry about it! I've got a yummy vegetarian dish for you."
2) "Ooh, I'd love it if you could bring something to share. I was going to grill some steaks: do you have something that might go well with baked potatoes and creamed spinach?" (P.S. My goat cheese stuffed portabellas are amazing)
OR
3) "Hmm, I was planning on my great grandmother's signature 3 meat lasagna with prosciutto as an appetizer and bacon ice cream for dessert. But if you'd still like to come hang out, you're welcome to!"

It gives the host the chance to decide how comfortable they are with a vegetarian guest (and an easy out if the answer is "not at all") and I know that I'm going to have enough to eat, one way or the other.

I would consider  rude and likely never issue another invite.

Wait, I just need to clarify. You'd never invite someone again if they said "I'd love to come! Since I'm a vegetarian, would you like me to bring a dish to share or should I eat something before hand?". Do I understand you correctly?

They are telling me they can't trust me to feed them and find my hospitality lacking enough that they have to do either bring their own meal or eat before, they don't need to be burdened by my poor hospitality.   Especially since I have not committed any faux pas by issuing an invite - if someone does not trust me enough to allow me to ask about restrictions but makes the point of letting me know that they would prefer to either bring something to my table or eat before hand - then they don't trust me enough to be able comfortable in my home. The entire premise of that tactic is pretty insulting to the host.

  I eat vegetarian two or three times a week, I am not incapable of making a vegetarian meal...but the assumption that I can't or won't is insulting.   The hose sets the menu - guests don't over ride that by bringing over their own food.  OR would it be OK for me to bring a meat entree to a vegetarian home? If the answer is no for the meat eater, then it should be no for the vegetarian.
 

Southern Girl feels the same way as you.  She thinks its not rude to offer to help the hostess "Can I bring anything?" but that bringing special food for yourself is an insult to the hostess. 

[Zilla]

As others said, I too think it's rude to show up with food without asking.  Especially with her history plus she makes it harder for other people with similar lifestyles as evidenced in this thread.


I wonder if the hostess asked her if she had any restrictions?  Or if the hostess knows she is a pescetarian?  Do you guys know for a fact she didn't ask the hostess or they have a long standing tradition of doing this?

In one example the hostess would have said to a group of friends "Hey, Hubby and I are going to grill out tonight.  Do you want to come over for burgers? "  Cue various friends asking if they could bring anything - side dishes, desserts?  FishGirl and husband show up with chunk of fish.

In another case the Southern Girl was having a themed dinner party and FishGirl brought a piece of fish to cook.  Southern Girl especially disliked having someone else trying to use her oven while she was preparing dinner.

If it makes a difference the fish is never brought over cooked.  And its always fish.

I don't have this problem with her at all since when I have large groups I serve a buffet with a variety of foods.  And I am careful about my guest list  for dinner parties.

ETA - Its seems that there are actually a variety of etiquette rules that conflict.  "Don't burden your hostess" "Take care of your guests"  "If you don't have something for everyone your shouldn't eat in front of them"

Got it.  I would think it was rude the first time but then now that it is well known about "fish" girl (lol) I would invite her and say ahead of time, "Oh and I remembered you love fish.  I will be sure to have some for you." 

[Aeris]

I said it in the previous thread, but it bears repeating.

I've been a vegetarian (except for the occasional piece of locally caught fresh fish) for almost 20 years. When I'm invited to a meal, I say, "I'd love to come! Since I'm a vegetarian, would you like me to bring a dish to share or should I eat something before hand?" I always get one of three answers:

1) "Don't worry about it! I've got a yummy vegetarian dish for you."
2) "Ooh, I'd love it if you could bring something to share. I was going to grill some steaks: do you have something that might go well with baked potatoes and creamed spinach?" (P.S. My goat cheese stuffed portabellas are amazing)
OR
3) "Hmm, I was planning on my great grandmother's signature 3 meat lasagna with prosciutto as an appetizer and bacon ice cream for dessert. But if you'd still like to come hang out, you're welcome to!"

It gives the host the chance to decide how comfortable they are with a vegetarian guest (and an easy out if the answer is "not at all") and I know that I'm going to have enough to eat, one way or the other.

I would consider  rude and likely never issue another invite.

Wait, I just need to clarify. You'd never invite someone again if they said "I'd love to come! Since I'm a vegetarian, would you like me to bring a dish to share or should I eat something before hand?". Do I understand you correctly?

They are telling me they can't trust me to feed them and find my hospitality lacking enough that they have to do either bring their own meal or eat before, they don't need to be burdened by my poor hospitality.   Especially since I have not committed any faux pas by issuing an invite - if someone does not trust me enough to allow me to ask about restrictions but makes the point of letting me know that they would prefer to either bring something to my table or eat before hand - then they don't trust me enough to be able comfortable in my home. The entire premise of that tactic is pretty insulting to the host.

  I eat vegetarian two or three times a week, I am not incapable of making a vegetarian meal...but the assumption that I can't or won't is insulting.   The hose sets the menu - guests don't over ride that by bringing over their own food.  OR would it be OK for me to bring a meat entree to a vegetarian home? If the answer is no for the meat eater, then it should be no for the vegetarian.
 

Southern Girl feels the same way as you.  She thinks its not rude to offer to help the hostess "Can I bring anything?" but that bringing special food for yourself is an insult to the hostess.

Does Southern Girl feel that offering to bring special food is an insult? Or only that bringing special food without asking first is an insult?

[Aeris]

In one example the hostess would have said to a group of friends "Hey, Hubby and I are going to grill out tonight.  Do you want to come over for burgers? "  Cue various friends asking if they could bring anything - side dishes, desserts?  FishGirl and husband show up with chunk of fish.

Interesting - in my group of friends, the hosts would likely say 'we're grilling burgers, if you want to grill something else, like fish or a veggie burger, please feel free to bring it'. If they didn't say that, as vegetarian I would likely, in the midst of the chorus of 'can I bring mashed potatoes', ask if she'd like me to bring a package of veggie burgers.

I do think in a casual 'grill out' situation bringing something to throw on the grill is not so heinous, but I would definitely ask unless I knew the people pretty well and it was expected.

If it were me doing a grill out, and I ate meat, I'd be providing veggie burgers myself for my friend. But if for some reason I didn't, I'd honestly *expect* a vegetarian friend to bring veggie burgers to throw on the grill.

In another case the Southern Girl was having a themed dinner party and FishGirl brought a piece of fish to cook.  Southern Girl especially disliked having someone else trying to use her oven while she was preparing dinner.

That's honestly just...bizarre.  I can't really wrap my head around that. I'm curious how much of the planned menu FishGirl knew she could eat. I mean, if Southern Girl really wasn't providing enough food for FishGirl for proper hospitality, then that's not cool, but the answer is never just to show up at a dinner party with a slab of uncooked fish to put in the oven. That's weird on about 4 levels.

[Poppea]

I said it in the previous thread, but it bears repeating.

I've been a vegetarian (except for the occasional piece of locally caught fresh fish) for almost 20 years. When I'm invited to a meal, I say, "I'd love to come! Since I'm a vegetarian, would you like me to bring a dish to share or should I eat something before hand?" I always get one of three answers:

1) "Don't worry about it! I've got a yummy vegetarian dish for you."
2) "Ooh, I'd love it if you could bring something to share. I was going to grill some steaks: do you have something that might go well with baked potatoes and creamed spinach?" (P.S. My goat cheese stuffed portabellas are amazing)
OR
3) "Hmm, I was planning on my great grandmother's signature 3 meat lasagna with prosciutto as an appetizer and bacon ice cream for dessert. But if you'd still like to come hang out, you're welcome to!"

It gives the host the chance to decide how comfortable they are with a vegetarian guest (and an easy out if the answer is "not at all") and I know that I'm going to have enough to eat, one way or the other.

I would consider  rude and likely never issue another invite.

Wait, I just need to clarify. You'd never invite someone again if they said "I'd love to come! Since I'm a vegetarian, would you like me to bring a dish to share or should I eat something before hand?". Do I understand you correctly?

They are telling me they can't trust me to feed them and find my hospitality lacking enough that they have to do either bring their own meal or eat before, they don't need to be burdened by my poor hospitality.   Especially since I have not committed any faux pas by issuing an invite - if someone does not trust me enough to allow me to ask about restrictions but makes the point of letting me know that they would prefer to either bring something to my table or eat before hand - then they don't trust me enough to be able comfortable in my home. The entire premise of that tactic is pretty insulting to the host.

  I eat vegetarian two or three times a week, I am not incapable of making a vegetarian meal...but the assumption that I can't or won't is insulting.   The hose sets the menu - guests don't over ride that by bringing over their own food.  OR would it be OK for me to bring a meat entree to a vegetarian home? If the answer is no for the meat eater, then it should be no for the vegetarian.
 

Southern Girl feels the same way as you.  She thinks its not rude to offer to help the hostess "Can I bring anything?" but that bringing special food for yourself is an insult to the hostess.

Does Southern Girl feel that offering to bring special food is an insult? Or only that bringing special food without asking first is an insult?

Southern Girl thinks that bringing special food for yourself is rude.  Not asking makes it ruder because she would have said that there was a variety of veggies dishes (side dishes that doubled as entrees).  And cooking it in your hostesses kitchen is ruder.  I think bringing the uncooked food was what really torched her. 

Part of the our discussion was whether food aversions have as much weight as religious, moral and medical reasons.

[Poppea]

In one example the hostess would have said to a group of friends "Hey, Hubby and I are going to grill out tonight.  Do you want to come over for burgers? "  Cue various friends asking if they could bring anything - side dishes, desserts?  FishGirl and husband show up with chunk of fish.

Interesting - in my group of friends, the hosts would likely say 'we're grilling burgers, if you want to grill something else, like fish or a veggie burger, please feel free to bring it'. If they didn't say that, as vegetarian I would likely, in the midst of the chorus of 'can I bring mashed potatoes', ask if she'd like me to bring a package of veggie burgers.

I do think in a casual 'grill out' situation bringing something to throw on the grill is not so heinous, but I would definitely ask unless I knew the people pretty well and it was expected.

If it were me doing a grill out, and I ate meat, I'd be providing veggie burgers myself for my friend. But if for some reason I didn't, I'd honestly *expect* a vegetarian friend to bring veggie burgers to throw on the grill.

In another case the Southern Girl was having a themed dinner party and FishGirl brought a piece of fish to cook.  Southern Girl especially disliked having someone else trying to use her oven while she was preparing dinner.

That's honestly just...bizarre.  I can't really wrap my head around that. I'm curious how much of the planned menu FishGirl knew she could eat. I mean, if Southern Girl really wasn't providing enough food for FishGirl for proper hospitality, then that's not cool, but the answer is never just to show up at a dinner party with a slab of uncooked fish to put in the oven. That's weird on about 4 levels.

GrillOut Girl wasn't too bothered about the fish on the grill.  She thought if would have been nicer to have offered to bring some veggie burgers to share.  Everyone else brought food that others could also eat. 

The chunk of fish at the dinner party was odd indeed.  I don't think she would have done it to anyone except Southern Girl.   I would have just said that all the ovens were is use. 

[Aeris]

<snip to trim quote tree>

Southern Girl thinks that bringing special food for yourself is rude.  Not asking makes it ruder because she would have said that there was a variety of veggies dishes (side dishes that doubled as entrees).  And cooking it in your hostesses kitchen is ruder.  I think bringing the uncooked food was what really torched her. 

Part of the our discussion was whether food aversions have as much weight as religious, moral and medical reasons.

Ah, gotcha. If FishGirl had only asked, then Southern Girl could have explained how there would be plenty for her to eat. That makes perfect sense. And it does sound like there would be enough for her to have a proper meal.

I would never find someone rude for *offering* - I think that's a bit much. There are many times when hosts are all too relieved to shift the burden of providing food that meets a dietary restriction back to the guest. I have a few friends that keep *super super strict* kosher, and I'm all too happy to take them up on their offer of bringing the totally safe kosher food for themselves. There's no way I could be sure of it if I did it myself.

Guests who have restrictions are in enough of a pickle trying to figure out how to be polite without going hungry or violating the restriction - a well intentioned offered should always be taken as such. But even saying that, I cannot imagine even offering to bring a raw piece of fish to cook in someone's oven at a dinner party. That's weird. 

If FishGirl had made some sort of open ended offer to bring an extra entree or extra 'something', I would think that was perfectly acceptable (whether Southern Girl declined that offer or otherwise). But to 1) not ask and 2) bring over something raw to cook in the host's oven in the middle of the dinner party is just really bizarre behavior.

[Poppea]

As others said, I too think it's rude to show up with food without asking.  Especially with her history plus she makes it harder for other people with similar lifestyles as evidenced in this thread.


I wonder if the hostess asked her if she had any restrictions?  Or if the hostess knows she is a pescetarian?  Do you guys know for a fact she didn't ask the hostess or they have a long standing tradition of doing this?

In one example the hostess would have said to a group of friends "Hey, Hubby and I are going to grill out tonight.  Do you want to come over for burgers? "  Cue various friends asking if they could bring anything - side dishes, desserts?  FishGirl and husband show up with chunk of fish.

In another case the Southern Girl was having a themed dinner party and FishGirl brought a piece of fish to cook.  Southern Girl especially disliked having someone else trying to use her oven while she was preparing dinner.

If it makes a difference the fish is never brought over cooked.  And its always fish.

I don't have this problem with her at all since when I have large groups I serve a buffet with a variety of foods.  And I am careful about my guest list  for dinner parties.

ETA - Its seems that there are actually a variety of etiquette rules that conflict.  "Don't burden your hostess" "Take care of your guests"  "If you don't have something for everyone your shouldn't eat in front of them"

Got it.  I would think it was rude the first time but then now that it is well known about "fish" girl (lol) I would invite her and say ahead of time, "Oh and I remembered you love fish.  I will be sure to have some for you."

Would you?  I might have veggie burgers available to all  but I wouldn't pick up fish especially for just one guest. 

[Poppea]

<snip to trim quote tree>

Southern Girl thinks that bringing special food for yourself is rude.  Not asking makes it ruder because she would have said that there was a variety of veggies dishes (side dishes that doubled as entrees).  And cooking it in your hostesses kitchen is ruder.  I think bringing the uncooked food was what really torched her. 

Part of the our discussion was whether food aversions have as much weight as religious, moral and medical reasons.

Ah, gotcha. If FishGirl had only asked, then Southern Girl could have explained how there would be plenty for her to eat. That makes perfect sense. And it does sound like there would be enough for her to have a proper meal.

I would never find someone rude for *offering* - I think that's a bit much. There are many times when hosts are all too relieved to shift the burden of providing food that meets a dietary restriction back to the guest. I have a few friends that keep *super super strict* kosher, and I'm all too happy to take them up on their offer of bringing the totally safe kosher food for themselves. There's no way I could be sure of it if I did it myself.

Guests who have restrictions are in enough of a pickle trying to figure out how to be polite without going hungry or violating the restriction - a well intentioned offered should always be taken as such. But even saying that, I cannot imagine even offering to bring a raw piece of fish to cook in someone's oven at a dinner party. That's weird. 

If FishGirl had made some sort of open ended offer to bring an extra entree or extra 'something', I would think that was perfectly acceptable (whether Southern Girl declined that offer or otherwise). But to 1) not ask and 2) bring over something raw to cook in the host's oven in the middle of the dinner party is just really bizarre behavior.

This was a New Orleans themed dinner party.  I don't know if she would have accepted an offer to bring a precooked fish casserole, but she certainly would have explained that there would be shrimp and grits, red beans and rice, salads, cornbread, etc.  as well as the meat dishes. 

[Aeris]

<snip to trim quote tree>

Southern Girl thinks that bringing special food for yourself is rude.  Not asking makes it ruder because she would have said that there was a variety of veggies dishes (side dishes that doubled as entrees).  And cooking it in your hostesses kitchen is ruder.  I think bringing the uncooked food was what really torched her. 

Part of the our discussion was whether food aversions have as much weight as religious, moral and medical reasons.

Ah, gotcha. If FishGirl had only asked, then Southern Girl could have explained how there would be plenty for her to eat. That makes perfect sense. And it does sound like there would be enough for her to have a proper meal.

I would never find someone rude for *offering* - I think that's a bit much. There are many times when hosts are all too relieved to shift the burden of providing food that meets a dietary restriction back to the guest. I have a few friends that keep *super super strict* kosher, and I'm all too happy to take them up on their offer of bringing the totally safe kosher food for themselves. There's no way I could be sure of it if I did it myself.

Guests who have restrictions are in enough of a pickle trying to figure out how to be polite without going hungry or violating the restriction - a well intentioned offered should always be taken as such. But even saying that, I cannot imagine even offering to bring a raw piece of fish to cook in someone's oven at a dinner party. That's weird. 

If FishGirl had made some sort of open ended offer to bring an extra entree or extra 'something', I would think that was perfectly acceptable (whether Southern Girl declined that offer or otherwise). But to 1) not ask and 2) bring over something raw to cook in the host's oven in the middle of the dinner party is just really bizarre behavior.

This was a New Orleans themed dinner party.  I don't know if she would have accepted an offer to bring a precooked fish casserole, but she certainly would have explained that there would be shrimp and grits, red beans and rice, salads, cornbread, etc.  as well as the meat dishes.

Yeah, I would have thought there would likely be *plenty* for a pescetarian at a New Orleans dinner party.

Just to be clear, I don't think Southern Girl would be required to accept such an offer. I just don't think FishGirl would be out of order to *make* the offer.

[*inviteseller]

I think showing up with a slab of uncooked fish, whether a B B Q or a formal situation, when you have not as much as brought it up with the hostess is rude, but I do not think it is rude to ask the hostess if she minded if you brought an already prepared dish to share and (unsaid) you the vegetarian have something to eat.  If hostess says 'no', then you politely decline.  There are people out there, as we have seen on these boards, who really don't get different dietary choices and we have to figure out before the meal what will and what won't fly with some people.  This can be done with absolutely politeness or it can ruin friendships from both the guest and hostess.  I will say though, as the one with the different eating habits, I am usually the one making concessions so as not to offend the hostess ( and then going home at 10 o'clock and making myself a meal because I am starved).  The main part of a meal is usually the meat portion, with a small side of salad and potato or pasta, so i am getting a quarter of the meal that everyone else is getting.

[Dragonflymom]

I'm a pescetarian myself and I'd be really puzzled at someone showing up with a slab of uncooked fish (ewwww) and expecting to use my oven.  *LOL*  Chances are my oven would already be in use and I would already be making something that everyone could eat.  People showing up at my home with uncooked food for me to deal with, unless it's a potluck and everyone is grilling stuff, is a huge pet peeve of mine and always feels very rude.  It takes up space in my oven or on my stove that is likely being used by me to get everyone's food made on, dirties my pans, takes up my time telling people where all the seasonings are, and is just an all around pain in the neck.

I try to let people know ahead of time what I'm planning on cooking when I am having them over, as I wind up hosting a lot of people with food issues and want to assure them that their issues are being accommodated.  So fish girl would know I'm serving shrimp or something vegetarian, low carb diet girl would know I'm serving lots of stuff with protein and veggies, cinnamon allergic Dad would know there will be lots of stuff that's safe for him to eat, lactose intolerant MIL will be similarly reassured, etc. 

I'm ok with people bringing already cooked stuff to share, but would prefer they ask beforehand.   Bringing uncooked stuff and commandeering my kitchen to prepare it without asking me beforehand will make me very displeased and consider cutting back on their invites if they do it more than once.

[candelilla]

     It has been said here that an invitation is not a summons, the OP can just decline the invite. But the host has the right to serve the foods she prefers to.  It is not polite to bring food to someone else's house. It is especially not polite when one knows the host would not feel free to decline this honor but would be silently fuming as in the OP. 
      People go to restaurants all the time and order appetizers and a salad, so expecting someone to either fill up before the party ( or after) and have what she can of the offerings or decline the invite, is not so heinous of the host. It is after all, what would be expected of anyone who did not like the what host had to offer if the situation was reversed - or if the meat eater simply did not like the entree.

Wow...with friends like that, who needs enemies? People choose not to eat meat for various and sundry reasons, none of which are actually your business. A good host or hostess shows flexibility and consideration for all his/her guests. For instance, I cannot eat pork or shellfish - my religion forbids it. I certainly won't die if I eat a bit of shrimp scampi or a piece of bacon, but I prefer not to.

I'm not saying I can't have those things in my presence at all - simply that if they are offered to me, I cannot eat them as a matter of religious principle. If you invite me to a dinner at your house and go out of your way to serve shellfish and pork in every single dish, I'm certainly not only going to feel like I am unwelcome, but that you are going out of your way to offend me and ensure that I never want to come back to your house. That's an extreme example, of course, but what you're saying is that you don't care about your guests and that their dietary preferences are an imposition you'd rather not deal with at all. That's a great way to lose friends really fast.

On another note, do you have food allergies/sensitivities/a religious/personal conviction about eating certain foods? Because I'm certain you would feel differently about having those accounted for when invited as a guest in someone else's home. In fact, I'm sure I've seen you talk about that very issue, and the double standard you hold is jaw-dropping.