Vegetarian Question

[Zilla]

As others said, I too think it's rude to show up with food without asking.  Especially with her history plus she makes it harder for other people with similar lifestyles as evidenced in this thread.


I wonder if the hostess asked her if she had any restrictions?  Or if the hostess knows she is a pescetarian?  Do you guys know for a fact she didn't ask the hostess or they have a long standing tradition of doing this?

In one example the hostess would have said to a group of friends "Hey, Hubby and I are going to grill out tonight.  Do you want to come over for burgers? "  Cue various friends asking if they could bring anything - side dishes, desserts?  FishGirl and husband show up with chunk of fish.

In another case the Southern Girl was having a themed dinner party and FishGirl brought a piece of fish to cook.  Southern Girl especially disliked having someone else trying to use her oven while she was preparing dinner.

If it makes a difference the fish is never brought over cooked.  And its always fish.

I don't have this problem with her at all since when I have large groups I serve a buffet with a variety of foods.  And I am careful about my guest list  for dinner parties.

ETA - Its seems that there are actually a variety of etiquette rules that conflict.  "Don't burden your hostess" "Take care of your guests"  "If you don't have something for everyone your shouldn't eat in front of them"

Got it.  I would think it was rude the first time but then now that it is well known about "fish" girl (lol) I would invite her and say ahead of time, "Oh and I remembered you love fish.  I will be sure to have some for you."

Would you?  I might have veggie burgers available to all  but I wouldn't pick up fish especially for just one guest.

Yep.  Especially with her history of bringing just fish to everything she is invited to.  But I love to cook and don't think anything of it to pick up a few pounds of fish in case anyone wanted fish along with hamburgers. 

[citadelle]

*inviteseller, I remember your other thread about taco night at your house. Do you do vegetarian tacos? I am curious what a recipe would be!

[Dragonflymom]

     It has been said here that an invitation is not a summons, the OP can just decline the invite. But the host has the right to serve the foods she prefers to.  It is not polite to bring food to someone else's house. It is especially not polite when one knows the host would not feel free to decline this honor but would be silently fuming as in the OP. 
      People go to restaurants all the time and order appetizers and a salad, so expecting someone to either fill up before the party ( or after) and have what she can of the offerings or decline the invite, is not so heinous of the host. It is after all, what would be expected of anyone who did not like the what host had to offer if the situation was reversed - or if the meat eater simply did not like the entree.

Wow...with friends like that, who needs enemies? People choose not to eat meat for various and sundry reasons, none of which are actually your business. A good host or hostess shows flexibility and consideration for all his/her guests. For instance, I cannot eat pork or shellfish - my religion forbids it. I certainly won't die if I eat a bit of shrimp scampi or a piece of bacon, but I prefer not to.

I'm not saying I can't have those things in my presence at all - simply that if they are offered to me, I cannot eat them as a matter of religious principle. If you invite me to a dinner at your house and go out of your way to serve shellfish and pork in every single dish, I'm certainly not only going to feel like I am unwelcome, but that you are going out of your way to offend me and ensure that I never want to come back to your house. That's an extreme example, of course, but what you're saying is that you don't care about your guests and that their dietary preferences are an imposition you'd rather not deal with at all. That's a great way to lose friends really fast.

On another note, do you have food allergies/sensitivities/a religious/personal conviction about eating certain foods? Because I'm certain you would feel differently about having those accounted for when invited as a guest in someone else's home. In fact, I'm sure I've seen you talk about that very issue, and the double standard you hold is jaw-dropping.

Very true.  I am a pescetarian due to gallbladder issues that have really restricted what I can eat.  Technically I guess I could eat it, and it wouldn't kill me, but I'd wish I were dead the next day.  *LOL*  It's never a good idea to make assumptions about why someone can't eat something. 

Those who become vegetarians/pescetarians for moral reasons too, it's much more than a matter of simple dislike.  And once they have been eating that way long enough, eating meat will do some unpleasant things to their system so again it's far more than mere dislike.

[Zilla]

*inviteseller, I remember your other thread about taco night at your house. Do you do vegetarian tacos? I am curious what a recipe would be!

Not inviteseller but I make lentil tacos.  It's stupidly easy and so tasty.  My non vegetarian family loves them. It's literally cooked lentils with taco seasoning blend.

[Aeris]

*inviteseller, I remember your other thread about taco night at your house. Do you do vegetarian tacos? I am curious what a recipe would be!

Also not *inviteseller, but I make up a bowl of faux ground beef and a bowl of cooked black beans with garlic and onions. Alongside the bowls of lettuce, onions, tomato, cheese, sour cream, avocado, and rice, it's a pretty good 'build your own' set up. It's also easy for a meat-eater to add in a bowl of actual ground beef that way.

[zinzin]

     It has been said here that an invitation is not a summons, the OP can just decline the invite. But the host has the right to serve the foods she prefers to.  It is not polite to bring food to someone else's house. It is especially not polite when one knows the host would not feel free to decline this honor but would be silently fuming as in the OP. 
      People go to restaurants all the time and order appetizers and a salad, so expecting someone to either fill up before the party ( or after) and have what she can of the offerings or decline the invite, is not so heinous of the host. It is after all, what would be expected of anyone who did not like the what host had to offer if the situation was reversed - or if the meat eater simply did not like the entree.

Oh, I see the difference. When I invite friends over, I don't care about the specific menu, I care about my specific guests, and helping ensure they have a good time. I am eager to tailor the menu accordingly or welcome contributions they really like to bring. I don't feel it hurts my cooking at all to make adjustments or accommodations. I always feel the point of socializing over a meal is the friendly and comfortable socializing, and making sure my guests are happy and feel welcome, not the specific food items involved.

I assume your friends have realized that you consider non-disruption of your meal planning to be your major concern (as you prefer they not attend and/or participate rather than disrupt your planning), and in that case, great, I'm happy that works for you.

[mbbored]

     It has been said here that an invitation is not a summons, the OP can just decline the invite. But the host has the right to serve the foods she prefers to.  It is not polite to bring food to someone else's house. It is especially not polite when one knows the host would not feel free to decline this honor but would be silently fuming as in the OP. 
      People go to restaurants all the time and order appetizers and a salad, so expecting someone to either fill up before the party ( or after) and have what she can of the offerings or decline the invite, is not so heinous of the host. It is after all, what would be expected of anyone who did not like the what host had to offer if the situation was reversed - or if the meat eater simply did not like the entree.

Oh, I see the difference. When I invite friends over, I don't care about the specific menu, I care about my specific guests, and helping ensure they have a good time. I am eager to tailor the menu accordingly or welcome contributions they really like to bring. I don't feel it hurts my cooking at all to make adjustments or accommodations. I always feel the point of socializing over a meal is the friendly and comfortable socializing, and making sure my guests are happy and feel welcome, not the specific food items involved.

I assume your friends have realized that you consider non-disruption of your meal planning to be your major concern (as you prefer they not attend and/or participate rather than disrupt your planning), and in that case, great, I'm happy that works for you.

I agree. Snowdragon, it seems you have a bit of a double standard here. In one post you say that you make a variety of vegetarian dishes you could prepare for a guest and in this one, you say a vegetarian guest should be happy with salad and appetizers. I ask my hosts what they would like ME to do so they don't end up in that silent fume. I'm assuming that somebody who wants me to come to their home can be honest enough to say "I have a menu already set, but I'll have some appetizers and salad you can eat."

[Poppea]

     It has been said here that an invitation is not a summons, the OP can just decline the invite. But the host has the right to serve the foods she prefers to.  It is not polite to bring food to someone else's house. It is especially not polite when one knows the host would not feel free to decline this honor but would be silently fuming as in the OP. 
      People go to restaurants all the time and order appetizers and a salad, so expecting someone to either fill up before the party ( or after) and have what she can of the offerings or decline the invite, is not so heinous of the host. It is after all, what would be expected of anyone who did not like the what host had to offer if the situation was reversed - or if the meat eater simply did not like the entree.

Oh, I see the difference. When I invite friends over, I don't care about the specific menu, I care about my specific guests, and helping ensure they have a good time. I am eager to tailor the menu accordingly or welcome contributions they really like to bring. I don't feel it hurts my cooking at all to make adjustments or accommodations. I always feel the point of socializing over a meal is the friendly and comfortable socializing, and making sure my guests are happy and feel welcome, not the specific food items involved.

I assume your friends have realized that you consider non-disruption of your meal planning to be your major concern (as you prefer they not attend and/or participate rather than disrupt your planning), and in that case, great, I'm happy that works for you.

I agree. Snowdragon, it seems you have a bit of a double standard here. In one post you say that you make a variety of vegetarian dishes you could prepare for a guest and in this one, you say a vegetarian guest should be happy with salad and appetizers. I ask my hosts what they would like ME to do so they don't end up in that silent fume. I'm assuming that somebody who wants me to come to their home can be honest enough to say "I have a menu already set, but I'll have some appetizers and salad you can eat."

Maybe Snowdragon means that as a hostess she would provide a variety of vegetarian friendly food, but as a guest she would not expect her hostess to rearrange her menu.

[snowdragon]

     It has been said here that an invitation is not a summons, the OP can just decline the invite. But the host has the right to serve the foods she prefers to.  It is not polite to bring food to someone else's house. It is especially not polite when one knows the host would not feel free to decline this honor but would be silently fuming as in the OP. 
      People go to restaurants all the time and order appetizers and a salad, so expecting someone to either fill up before the party ( or after) and have what she can of the offerings or decline the invite, is not so heinous of the host. It is after all, what would be expected of anyone who did not like the what host had to offer if the situation was reversed - or if the meat eater simply did not like the entree.

Oh, I see the difference. When I invite friends over, I don't care about the specific menu, I care about my specific guests, and helping ensure they have a good time. I am eager to tailor the menu accordingly or welcome contributions they really like to bring. I don't feel it hurts my cooking at all to make adjustments or accommodations. I always feel the point of socializing over a meal is the friendly and comfortable socializing, and making sure my guests are happy and feel welcome, not the specific food items involved.

I assume your friends have realized that you consider non-disruption of your meal planning to be your major concern (as you prefer they not attend and/or participate rather than disrupt your planning), and in that case, great, I'm happy that works for you.

I agree. Snowdragon, it seems you have a bit of a double standard here. In one post you say that you make a variety of vegetarian dishes you could prepare for a guest and in this one, you say a vegetarian guest should be happy with salad and appetizers. I ask my hosts what they would like ME to do so they don't end up in that silent fume. I'm assuming that somebody who wants me to come to their home can be honest enough to say "I have a menu already set, but I'll have some appetizers and salad you can eat."

Maybe Snowdragon means that as a hostess she would provide a variety of vegetarian friendly food, but as a guest she would not expect her hostess to rearrange her menu.

precisely.   The insult I see here is pre-emptively asking ( or not asking at all) The OP stated that her hostess would acquiesce but would silently fume about it. 

From post #1. "Lets assume the hostess is uber polite and would not tell you that she minded either option even if she was actually steamed about it."

So it's known the hostess would not feel she could refuse, even if she minds.  SO the polite choice is not to ask and not to bring something, eat what you ( general you) offered.  A hostess has enough going on with out someone bringing extra food either for the hostess to cook - or put an extra body in the way of the preparations for dinner, by cooking themselves a separate meal - is rude.
     
  The hostess was kind enough to tell you (general) the menu, either accept it or decline it, but bringing another meal because you find their hosting lacking is rude.

 

[*inviteseller]

*inviteseller, I remember your other thread about taco night at your house. Do you do vegetarian tacos? I am curious what a recipe would be!

I make a taco bar so everyone makes their own.  I usually make ground turkey for the kids to have a meat filling, and the toppings to choose from are black beans, tomatoes,  lettuce,  cheese, onions, sour cream, guacamole, and picante.  We all have different tastes, so I try to find something for everyone.  So my tacos are very veggie filled (yumyum now I want them!)

[Aeris]

     It has been said here that an invitation is not a summons, the OP can just decline the invite. But the host has the right to serve the foods she prefers to.  It is not polite to bring food to someone else's house. It is especially not polite when one knows the host would not feel free to decline this honor but would be silently fuming as in the OP. 
      People go to restaurants all the time and order appetizers and a salad, so expecting someone to either fill up before the party ( or after) and have what she can of the offerings or decline the invite, is not so heinous of the host. It is after all, what would be expected of anyone who did not like the what host had to offer if the situation was reversed - or if the meat eater simply did not like the entree.

Oh, I see the difference. When I invite friends over, I don't care about the specific menu, I care about my specific guests, and helping ensure they have a good time. I am eager to tailor the menu accordingly or welcome contributions they really like to bring. I don't feel it hurts my cooking at all to make adjustments or accommodations. I always feel the point of socializing over a meal is the friendly and comfortable socializing, and making sure my guests are happy and feel welcome, not the specific food items involved.

I assume your friends have realized that you consider non-disruption of your meal planning to be your major concern (as you prefer they not attend and/or participate rather than disrupt your planning), and in that case, great, I'm happy that works for you.

I agree. Snowdragon, it seems you have a bit of a double standard here. In one post you say that you make a variety of vegetarian dishes you could prepare for a guest and in this one, you say a vegetarian guest should be happy with salad and appetizers. I ask my hosts what they would like ME to do so they don't end up in that silent fume. I'm assuming that somebody who wants me to come to their home can be honest enough to say "I have a menu already set, but I'll have some appetizers and salad you can eat."

Maybe Snowdragon means that as a hostess she would provide a variety of vegetarian friendly food, but as a guest she would not expect her hostess to rearrange her menu.

precisely.   The insult I see here is pre-emptively asking ( or not asking at all) The OP stated that her hostess would acquiesce but would silently fume about it. 

From post #1. "Lets assume the hostess is uber polite and would not tell you that she minded either option even if she was actually steamed about it."

So it's known the hostess would not feel she could refuse, even if she minds.  SO the polite choice is not to ask and not to bring something, eat what you ( general you) offered.  A hostess has enough going on with out someone bringing extra food either for the hostess to cook - or put an extra body in the way of the preparations for dinner, by cooking themselves a separate meal - is rude.
     
  The hostess was kind enough to tell you (general) the menu, either accept it or decline it, but bringing another meal because you find their hosting lacking is rude.

 

I can't imagine a reasonable host "silently fuming" over someone merely offering assistance. If they did, they'd be petty and wildly overreacting. That also doesn't seem to be what the thread was actually about originally - it was about someone who brought food *without asking*, in a weird intrusive way to boot.

It also does not actually sound like Southern Girl told FishGirl what the menu was ahead of time - the OP points out that she *would* have, if only FishGirl had asks her instead of just bringing the raw fish undiscussed.

At any rate, you have said in the past that you would need in certain cases to be allowed to bring supplementary food that you knew was allergen free if you were to enjoy a hosted meal - why is it okay for you to want to bring allergen-free food, but not okay for a vegetarian to offer to bring something?

[MariaE]

From post #1. "Lets assume the hostess is uber polite and would not tell you that she minded either option even if she was actually steamed about it."

That's not being über polite - that's being a doormat.

Besides, I think it would be really uncharitable of the hostess to be steamed about it assuming the following:
1) The guest asked.
2) The guest used mbored's phrasing when asking (i.e. "Would you prefer that I filled up at home" was an option).
3) If bringing a dish - whether to share or for herself - the dish was already cooked and ready to be served - i.e. no inconvenience to the host.

Really it all boils down to what's more important to you in a hosting situation - the guests or the food. For me the guests would always come first. I'd feel horrible if a friend turned down an invitation rather than informing me of a dietary restriction out of some sense of displaced "politeness".

[*inviteseller]

     It has been said here that an invitation is not a summons, the OP can just decline the invite. But the host has the right to serve the foods she prefers to.  It is not polite to bring food to someone else's house. It is especially not polite when one knows the host would not feel free to decline this honor but would be silently fuming as in the OP. 
      People go to restaurants all the time and order appetizers and a salad, so expecting someone to either fill up before the party ( or after) and have what she can of the offerings or decline the invite, is not so heinous of the host. It is after all, what would be expected of anyone who did not like the what host had to offer if the situation was reversed - or if the meat eater simply did not like the entree.

Oh, I see the difference. When I invite friends over, I don't care about the specific menu, I care about my specific guests, and helping ensure they have a good time. I am eager to tailor the menu accordingly or welcome contributions they really like to bring. I don't feel it hurts my cooking at all to make adjustments or accommodations. I always feel the point of socializing over a meal is the friendly and comfortable socializing, and making sure my guests are happy and feel welcome, not the specific food items involved.

I assume your friends have realized that you consider non-disruption of your meal planning to be your major concern (as you prefer they not attend and/or participate rather than disrupt your planning), and in that case, great, I'm happy that works for you.

I agree. Snowdragon, it seems you have a bit of a double standard here. In one post you say that you make a variety of vegetarian dishes you could prepare for a guest and in this one, you say a vegetarian guest should be happy with salad and appetizers. I ask my hosts what they would like ME to do so they don't end up in that silent fume. I'm assuming that somebody who wants me to come to their home can be honest enough to say "I have a menu already set, but I'll have some appetizers and salad you can eat."

Maybe Snowdragon means that as a hostess she would provide a variety of vegetarian friendly food, but as a guest she would not expect her hostess to rearrange her menu.

precisely.   The insult I see here is pre-emptively asking ( or not asking at all) The OP stated that her hostess would acquiesce but would silently fume about it. 

From post #1. "Lets assume the hostess is uber polite and would not tell you that she minded either option even if she was actually steamed about it."

So it's known the hostess would not feel she could refuse, even if she minds.  SO the polite choice is not to ask and not to bring something, eat what you ( general you) offered.  A hostess has enough going on with out someone bringing extra food either for the hostess to cook - or put an extra body in the way of the preparations for dinner, by cooking themselves a separate meal - is rude.
     
  The hostess was kind enough to tell you (general) the menu, either accept it or decline it, but bringing another meal because you find their hosting lacking is rude.

 

I always bring my food prepared and thanks to those insulated bags, you can keep a casserole dish warm.  I guess what you are saying Snowdragon is, if you have a food issue for whatever reason, you should either suck it up and enjoy the breadbasket while everyone enjoys a full meal, or continuously decline all invites, which then gets you blacklisted from your dinners.  I did that for awhile and it isn't fun.  I would much rather my guests ask me (and possible give me a heads up to a condition I didn't know about) than have someone sitting at my table with a spear of broccoli and call it a meal.  You say a guest is rude for daring to ask a question, but I say your hosting style of 'suck it up, you should be happy to be invited' is very off putting.  If a guest has to eat a meal ahead of time because her host doesn't care to make modifications or accept the offering of an alternate dish being brought, and host has no problem with an invited guest getting little to nothing to eat at a dinner party, then that is someone who should not be hosting meals in their house.   

[citadelle]

Thanks for all the veggie friendly taco ideas! Sorry to derail.

[*inviteseller]

Don't forget the black olives and refried beans too!