Author Topic: Taking up two seats on the subway  (Read 5632 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

TurtleDove

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 5994
Re: Taking up two seats on the subway
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2013, 01:59:34 PM »
Oh, with paid/reserved seats I definitely agree that one should buy a second seat if they need it. I don't really see subways and busses as the same situation, though, since they're designed for standing room when the seats are full. 
If the rule for subways is you don't take more than one seat, and an average sized person came up to the woman in the OP.. should she then stand up so the new person can sit down, because she was taking up more than her one seat? That doesn't seem right either. I think it's first-come, first-served. So, flip side, if a small/average person is seated, then I don't think a larger person would have the right to sit next to them and overlap into their seat.

I would probably say that the larger person should stand so that TWO people can sit.  To me, that is the most efficient use of the space.  I would imagine some people agree with me and some don't. 

ettiquit

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1662
Re: Taking up two seats on the subway
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2013, 04:07:56 PM »
Oh, with paid/reserved seats I definitely agree that one should buy a second seat if they need it. I don't really see subways and busses as the same situation, though, since they're designed for standing room when the seats are full. 
If the rule for subways is you don't take more than one seat, and an average sized person came up to the woman in the OP.. should she then stand up so the new person can sit down, because she was taking up more than her one seat? That doesn't seem right either. I think it's first-come, first-served. So, flip side, if a small/average person is seated, then I don't think a larger person would have the right to sit next to them and overlap into their seat.

I would probably say that the larger person should stand so that TWO people can sit.  To me, that is the most efficient use of the space.  I would imagine some people agree with me and some don't.

I guess it depends on whether you prioritize your own comfort or the efficiency of the space being used.  Since you can't control the efficiency aspect without involving other passengers, it makes more sense to focus on your own comfort.  If you know that there's a chance you're going to have to stand, prepare for that. 

Calistoga

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 401
Re: Taking up two seats on the subway
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2013, 04:10:22 PM »
Quote
I guess it depends on whether you prioritize your own comfort or the efficiency of the space being used.  Since you can't control the efficiency aspect without involving other passengers, it makes more sense to focus on your own comfort.  If you know that there's a chance you're going to have to stand, prepare for that.

You can control it to an extent. For example, a regular sized person who chooses to stretch their feet across 2 extra chairs is certainly more comfortable, but also a bit of a turd for taking up 3 seats on a crowded subway when they only needed 1 to sit down.

TurtleDove

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 5994
Re: Taking up two seats on the subway
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2013, 04:14:42 PM »

I guess it depends on whether you prioritize your own comfort or the efficiency of the space being used.  Since you can't control the efficiency aspect without involving other passengers, it makes more sense to focus on your own comfort.  If you know that there's a chance you're going to have to stand, prepare for that.

I prioritize both! That's why I think the larger person should stand to allow two "normal" sized people to sit.

ettiquit

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1662
Re: Taking up two seats on the subway
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2013, 04:18:01 PM »
Quote
I guess it depends on whether you prioritize your own comfort or the efficiency of the space being used.  Since you can't control the efficiency aspect without involving other passengers, it makes more sense to focus on your own comfort.  If you know that there's a chance you're going to have to stand, prepare for that.

You can control it to an extent. For example, a regular sized person who chooses to stretch their feet across 2 extra chairs is certainly more comfortable, but also a bit of a turd for taking up 3 seats on a crowded subway when they only needed 1 to sit down.

Oh, that's true.  But in TurtleDove's example, the larger person taking up two seats because they can't help it should get up to let her sit down.  The larger person in this scenario isn't being at all rude, but is prioritizing her own comfort over using the provided space as efficiently as possible. 


ettiquit

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1662
Re: Taking up two seats on the subway
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2013, 04:20:33 PM »

I guess it depends on whether you prioritize your own comfort or the efficiency of the space being used.  Since you can't control the efficiency aspect without involving other passengers, it makes more sense to focus on your own comfort.  If you know that there's a chance you're going to have to stand, prepare for that.

I prioritize both! That's why I think the larger person should stand to allow two "normal" sized people to sit.

If a person is large enough to take up two seats, would it really help to have them stand in the aisle where they're potentially making it more difficult for people to get on and off the train because of the space they take up? Mightn't it be safer for them to sit?

Calistoga

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 401
Re: Taking up two seats on the subway
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2013, 04:37:46 PM »
I think you should be willing to give up any EXTRA space you are taking up. The seat your purse is in is extra. The two seats your fanny is in isn't.

Tea Drinker

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1382
Re: Taking up two seats on the subway
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2013, 05:07:11 PM »

I guess it depends on whether you prioritize your own comfort or the efficiency of the space being used.  Since you can't control the efficiency aspect without involving other passengers, it makes more sense to focus on your own comfort.  If you know that there's a chance you're going to have to stand, prepare for that.

I prioritize both! That's why I think the larger person should stand to allow two "normal" sized people to sit.

How far do you take that? Should two average people have to stand so three particularly thin people, or four children, can sit down?

If a group of people was going to be expected to give up their seats, they should get a discount on the subway ride. The systems aren't set up for that: there are discount cards based on age, sometimes student status, and disability, but not for large butts or unusually broad shoulders.

Come to think of it, I keep being told that being fat is unhealthy: if that's true, fat people are more likely than "normal" weight ones to need those seats.
Any advice that requires the use of a time machine may safely be ignored.

Yvaine

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 8904
Re: Taking up two seats on the subway
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2013, 05:07:51 PM »
I think you should be willing to give up any EXTRA space you are taking up. The seat your purse is in is extra. The two seats your fanny is in isn't.

Yes, this.

Efficiency is not the only thing to strive for on a bus. There's also fairness and accommodation of bodily issues and the concept of first-come, first-served, and there isn't necessarily a one-size-fits-all answer to every question either.

To illustrate that no one truly believes the most important thing is to use the space efficiently, on our city buses, when someone gets on in a wheelchair, two seats are folded up in order to safely anchor the chair. Surely no one would suggest that the person in a wheelchair should then have to get off if someone gets on who could theoretically sit in those two seats--that would be reprehensible.

Needing extra space is a little different as I don't think it's covered by law, but I do think it would be rather dehumanizing to class people above a certain size as "people who must always get up to let others sit."

On a conveyance that is sold by-the-seat, like a Greyhound bus, then there's really no way around the fact that someone may need to sit in the other seat even if it's cramped. I, no small person myself, ended up sitting next to someone who took up a large portion of my seat for a Greyhound ride once. It was uncomfortable, but we did all get where we were going.

But on something like a city bus, where you're paying to be on the bus and there's no guarantee of a seat, I do think it's special needs first (such as elderly/pregnant/mobility issues) and then first come first served, even if it means the space usage is not perfectly efficient. It's not a math problem about fitting boxes into the bus, it's people, and thus etiquette applies. And I think things like accommodating special needs and honoring first come first served are parts of etiquette.

ettiquit

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1662
Re: Taking up two seats on the subway
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2013, 05:10:09 PM »
I think you should be willing to give up any EXTRA space you are taking up. The seat your purse is in is extra. The two seats your fanny is in isn't.

Yes, this.

Efficiency is not the only thing to strive for on a bus. There's also fairness and accommodation of bodily issues and the concept of first-come, first-served, and there isn't necessarily a one-size-fits-all answer to every question either.

To illustrate that no one truly believes the most important thing is to use the space efficiently, on our city buses, when someone gets on in a wheelchair, two seats are folded up in order to safely anchor the chair. Surely no one would suggest that the person in a wheelchair should then have to get off if someone gets on who could theoretically sit in those two seats--that would be reprehensible.

Needing extra space is a little different as I don't think it's covered by law, but I do think it would be rather dehumanizing to class people above a certain size as "people who must always get up to let others sit."

On a conveyance that is sold by-the-seat, like a Greyhound bus, then there's really no way around the fact that someone may need to sit in the other seat even if it's cramped. I, no small person myself, ended up sitting next to someone who took up a large portion of my seat for a Greyhound ride once. It was uncomfortable, but we did all get where we were going.

But on something like a city bus, where you're paying to be on the bus and there's no guarantee of a seat, I do think it's special needs first (such as elderly/pregnant/mobility issues) and then first come first served, even if it means the space usage is not perfectly efficient. It's not a math problem about fitting boxes into the bus, it's people, and thus etiquette applies. And I think things like accommodating special needs and honoring first come first served are parts of etiquette.

Very well put.

amylouky

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1563
Re: Taking up two seats on the subway
« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2013, 09:28:03 AM »
I think you should be willing to give up any EXTRA space you are taking up. The seat your purse is in is extra. The two seats your fanny is in isn't.

Yes, this.

Efficiency is not the only thing to strive for on a bus. There's also fairness and accommodation of bodily issues and the concept of first-come, first-served, and there isn't necessarily a one-size-fits-all answer to every question either.

To illustrate that no one truly believes the most important thing is to use the space efficiently, on our city buses, when someone gets on in a wheelchair, two seats are folded up in order to safely anchor the chair. Surely no one would suggest that the person in a wheelchair should then have to get off if someone gets on who could theoretically sit in those two seats--that would be reprehensible.

Needing extra space is a little different as I don't think it's covered by law, but I do think it would be rather dehumanizing to class people above a certain size as "people who must always get up to let others sit."

On a conveyance that is sold by-the-seat, like a Greyhound bus, then there's really no way around the fact that someone may need to sit in the other seat even if it's cramped. I, no small person myself, ended up sitting next to someone who took up a large portion of my seat for a Greyhound ride once. It was uncomfortable, but we did all get where we were going.

But on something like a city bus, where you're paying to be on the bus and there's no guarantee of a seat, I do think it's special needs first (such as elderly/pregnant/mobility issues) and then first come first served, even if it means the space usage is not perfectly efficient. It's not a math problem about fitting boxes into the bus, it's people, and thus etiquette applies. And I think things like accommodating special needs and honoring first come first served are parts of etiquette.

Very well put.

POD.
I don't think that a larger person should have to get up so that two people can sit in the seats they are occupying. The larger person was there first, and is occupying the space they need, whether it is one seat or two.
In your Greyhound example, though, I think the person overlapping should have had to buy two seats, since they are sold on a per-seat basis. Same with airplane seats on a full flight, theater seats, anything else where you are paying for a seat, not just to get on as on a city bus/subway.

Yvaine

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 8904
Re: Taking up two seats on the subway
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2013, 09:44:22 AM »
In your Greyhound example, though, I think the person overlapping should have had to buy two seats, since they are sold on a per-seat basis. Same with airplane seats on a full flight, theater seats, anything else where you are paying for a seat, not just to get on as on a city bus/subway.

I can see that argument, though for personal reasons I fear getting caught up in it someday (I'm among the moderately-fat and currently take up only one seat, but in places like airplanes, they are continually making the seats smaller--but that's another story).

For Greyhound in particular, though, I can just imagine it would be a pain to enforce. They sell by the seat, but the seats are not assigned, so the guy in my example would have had to explain at every stop that "no, you can't sit there, I bought this one too." At least with a plane, the person would be on record as having claim to two particular seats and (at least in theory) everybody else would be assigned to different ones, so the passenger wouldn't be in  the awkward position of having to explain it.

Poppea

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2458
Re: Taking up two seats on the subway
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2013, 10:02:00 AM »
I wish the OP would come to clarify what was said and to whom.  In general, I think this type of thinking is vile, but without knowing what was really said and in what context its hard to judge.

amylouky

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1563
Re: Taking up two seats on the subway
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2013, 10:05:54 AM »
I wish the OP would come to clarify what was said and to whom.  In general, I think this type of thinking is vile, but without knowing what was really said and in what context its hard to judge.

? Did you post this in the wrong thread?

Cat-Fu

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 523
  • My cat is a ninja
Re: Taking up two seats on the subway
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2013, 11:17:19 AM »
Seating on public transportation is first come, first serve—you pay for a space on the bus, not necessarily seating. (And if you're on the Green line in Boston, you're not even guaranteed enough space to breathe :P) IMO if a person is taking up two seats, that's totally fine because they were there first, unless of course they are taking up high priority seating if they don't meet the standards for it. (But really, I'm not going to be asking for credentials since it's none of my business.) Anyways, someone who takes up two spots sitting is going to take up two spots standing more or less, so it's not like it really makes a huge difference!
“Poetry is a sword of lightning, ever unsheathed, which consumes the scabbard that would contain it.” PBS