Author Topic: Bringing a 1 year old where?!  (Read 16794 times)

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Yvaine

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Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
« Reply #90 on: March 01, 2013, 01:14:31 PM »
I'm just baffled by all the people here saying oh yeah, you have to go when the kids are super young or the magic won't be there for them.  I can tell you I did not go to Disneyland (still haven't made it to DisneyWorld yet) until I was in my early teens and it was super magical and I loved every second of it.  Still feel that way every time I go.

There is a different kind of magic. I'll be 31 when I go for the first time and I expect it to be magical, but my three year old will beleive his favourite characters have coem to life. I will be a very different kind of magic.

Ah, OK. I was told before even going at 6 that it was people in costumes--I guess I didn't even realize some kids might believe it for real, but it makes sense, along the lines of Santa and the Easter Bunny.

auntmeegs

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Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
« Reply #91 on: March 01, 2013, 01:16:35 PM »
Concern is not rude. Unwanted and critical comments, however, are.

I just cannot agree with this. It seems to me to be saying "No one should tell me anything I don't want to hear."

It's not that you can't be told what you don't want to hear, but it still shouldn't be done rudely.  First, we are talking about a vacation or a house downpayment.  For some us, it's obvious which one we'd choose, but that doesn't make choosing the other wrong, crazy, or silly.  The FIL has every right to be concerned and express concern.  But he's being overly critical and intrusive in the process.  That is rude.  There are polite ways to show concern.  Calling her plan crazy and silly is not it.  And I would think that if you (general) love someone enough to be concerned about whether or not they save money for a house or take their kids to Disney, then I would also assume that you love them enough to try to approach them in a loving and kind manner...one in which you may actually get some results.  This seems like being critical for the sake of criticizing.  And not likely to get the OP to consider his POV.

As for the whole discussion/commentary about when kids should go to Disney, what is and isn't considered extravagant, etc.  It doesn't matter.  At all.  The OP and her husband have made a decision.  They are going to Disney.  She didn't come here asking any of us to tell her if we think it is or isn't a good idea.  She asked for advice on how to respond to someone who's making her business, theirs.  Responding with your own opinions about how sound her plan is, is doing exactly what the FIL is doing.  It's not our business.  Her kids will still have a place to sleep and food to eat.  They are not homeless and starving because of one vacation, so why should any of us care if chooses a vacation over a downpayment?  Why does it matter that she wants to take her 6 year old this year?  Who cares if the 6 year old can enjoy the park when she's 56 too?  None of that means that the OP can't take her now.  Why can't the kids have a childhood memory of going to Disney with parents?  Becuase it's not a choice you (generic) would make?

Some have pointed out that he called the plan "crazy" and "silly." However, he also called her "crazy." And, it sounds from LilacGirl's first post that he came over to her house to do so. ("He came over and pretty much tried to convince me to wait.")

Good point.  And it makes me even more surprised how many posters are continuing to justify FIL's behavior and chalk it up to being a concerned parent (at least that's how it seems to me).  I really feel that some are pushing their own opinion on what choices they'd make if they were in the same financial position as they think LilacGirl is in.  And that's not fair.

Maybe its not fair but it is a pretty normal reaction.  And those that agree with FIL's opinion probably really do see his behavior as that of a concerned parent.

FWIW, I agree with the FIL's opinion.  I still think he's rude.  Going to someone's house and calling them crazy for making a decision that I don't like (Concerned or otherwise) is rude.  He's not financially responsible for her family, he's not raising the kids, nothing.   If he can't figure out how to express his concern in a "concerned" manner, without insulting the OP and telling her what to do, then he does need to keep quiet about it.  PErsonally, I think that he can tell her what his concerns are in a way that isn't insulting, intrusive, and won't put the OP on edge.  He just didn't do that.

And sorry, I don't agree that it's a normal reaction.  I don't agree with a lot of what my family and friends do.  I might even think they are crazy sometimes.  But me feeling that way doesn't give me the right to express it so bluntly.

FWIW, I meant that (IMO) it is a normal reaction for posters to consider what they would be doing in the OP's situation and for that to color how they view the FIL's reaction and input. 

EllenS

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Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
« Reply #92 on: March 01, 2013, 01:23:37 PM »
I'm just baffled by all the people here saying oh yeah, you have to go when the kids are super young or the magic won't be there for them.  I can tell you I did not go to Disneyland (still haven't made it to DisneyWorld yet) until I was in my early teens and it was super magical and I loved every second of it.  Still feel that way every time I go.

There is a different kind of magic. I'll be 31 when I go for the first time and I expect it to be magical, but my three year old will beleive his favourite characters have coem to life. I will be a very different kind of magic.

Ah, OK. I was told before even going at 6 that it was people in costumes--I guess I didn't even realize some kids might believe it for real, but it makes sense, along the lines of Santa and the Easter Bunny.

If we were taking our kids, we would have to harp over and over about the people in costumes - giant animals, etc make my little one scream, she's terrified.  The older one would also be completely freaked out about the idea of characters from movies "coming to life" and crossing over into the real world.  Creepy.

We have trouble even going to Chick-fil-a because of the giant cow.  Now the little one asks if the "man in a cow suit" is there, and will hide, but at least she doesn't have a screaming meltdown anymore.

**edited to get my statement out of the quote box
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 05:11:10 PM by EllenS »
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artk2002

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Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
« Reply #93 on: March 01, 2013, 02:17:28 PM »
I'm just baffled by all the people here saying oh yeah, you have to go when the kids are super young or the magic won't be there for them.  I can tell you I did not go to Disneyland (still haven't made it to DisneyWorld yet) until I was in my early teens and it was super magical and I loved every second of it.  Still feel that way every time I go.

Yeah I was starting to feel a bit foolish too - I first went at 12 and loved every second of it, maybe some posters think I was a stunted kid or something huh? 
My stepmom first went in her 50's and had such an amazing time she and my dad have been back 3 times more... but I guess there must have been no magic for her either though since she was over 6  ::)

Folks, if you want to go, go.  But don't fool yourself that its only special for super little kids, Disney is world famous for, and prides itself for being amazing fun for all ages.

A little O/T but some history might be useful in understanding why the Disney parks aren't just for little kids. He set out to build a park that he would want to visit as an adult. The parks are successful because they appeal to a broad range of people.

Here's a quote from the man himself:
Quote
It started with my taking my two kids around to the zoos and parks. While they were on the merry-go-round riding 40 times or something, I'd be sitting there trying to figure out what you could do that would be more imaginative. Then when I built the new studio in Burbank, I got the idea for a three-dimensional thing that people could actually come and visit. I felt that there should be something built where the parents and the children could have fun together.

I've been to the parks with adults who have never gone before -- cynical engineers, no less -- and seen the wonder in their eyes just like a 6yo's. I'm looking forward to going with my son in law and granddaughters; he's moderately anti-Disney, but I think he's in for a real surprise.

Mrs.k2002 and I have annual passes for Disneyland. Sometimes we'll go with our teenaged sons and sometimes just ourselves. Being 55 instead of 5.5 doesn't take away from the experience. I say that as someone who has been going since he was 3yo.

Back on topic: A parent should be concerned when their adult child is making a questionable decision. There are limits to what they can do about that concern though. One way is to express it, but that has to be done in a way that respects the child's adulthood and autonomy. "How will this affect your plans for buying a house?" raises the issue, and addresses what should be the parent's real concern: Did the adult child consider enough factors in making this decision? What we can't do as parents is impose our particular idea of what something is worth.  For many people, house over Disney is a no-brainer. For others, it's the opposite. Neither is really wrong. It's important that the decision maker consider the value of both before deciding.

Could a Disney-over-house decision be the symptom of real irresponsibility? It certainly can, but that's not in any way a given. Treating it that way at first is an insult to the kids and an insult to the parent (if they had raised the kids right, they wouldn't be irresponsible.) The FIL in the OP sounds like he's going right to the "you're being irresponsible" assumption.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow lines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain

bah12

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Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
« Reply #94 on: March 01, 2013, 02:34:39 PM »
Concern is not rude. Unwanted and critical comments, however, are.

I just cannot agree with this. It seems to me to be saying "No one should tell me anything I don't want to hear."

It's not that you can't be told what you don't want to hear, but it still shouldn't be done rudely.  First, we are talking about a vacation or a house downpayment.  For some us, it's obvious which one we'd choose, but that doesn't make choosing the other wrong, crazy, or silly.  The FIL has every right to be concerned and express concern.  But he's being overly critical and intrusive in the process.  That is rude.  There are polite ways to show concern.  Calling her plan crazy and silly is not it.  And I would think that if you (general) love someone enough to be concerned about whether or not they save money for a house or take their kids to Disney, then I would also assume that you love them enough to try to approach them in a loving and kind manner...one in which you may actually get some results.  This seems like being critical for the sake of criticizing.  And not likely to get the OP to consider his POV.

As for the whole discussion/commentary about when kids should go to Disney, what is and isn't considered extravagant, etc.  It doesn't matter.  At all.  The OP and her husband have made a decision.  They are going to Disney.  She didn't come here asking any of us to tell her if we think it is or isn't a good idea.  She asked for advice on how to respond to someone who's making her business, theirs.  Responding with your own opinions about how sound her plan is, is doing exactly what the FIL is doing.  It's not our business.  Her kids will still have a place to sleep and food to eat.  They are not homeless and starving because of one vacation, so why should any of us care if chooses a vacation over a downpayment?  Why does it matter that she wants to take her 6 year old this year?  Who cares if the 6 year old can enjoy the park when she's 56 too?  None of that means that the OP can't take her now.  Why can't the kids have a childhood memory of going to Disney with parents?  Becuase it's not a choice you (generic) would make?

Some have pointed out that he called the plan "crazy" and "silly." However, he also called her "crazy." And, it sounds from LilacGirl's first post that he came over to her house to do so. ("He came over and pretty much tried to convince me to wait.")

Good point.  And it makes me even more surprised how many posters are continuing to justify FIL's behavior and chalk it up to being a concerned parent (at least that's how it seems to me).  I really feel that some are pushing their own opinion on what choices they'd make if they were in the same financial position as they think LilacGirl is in.  And that's not fair.

Maybe its not fair but it is a pretty normal reaction.  And those that agree with FIL's opinion probably really do see his behavior as that of a concerned parent.

FWIW, I agree with the FIL's opinion.  I still think he's rude.  Going to someone's house and calling them crazy for making a decision that I don't like (Concerned or otherwise) is rude.  He's not financially responsible for her family, he's not raising the kids, nothing.   If he can't figure out how to express his concern in a "concerned" manner, without insulting the OP and telling her what to do, then he does need to keep quiet about it.  PErsonally, I think that he can tell her what his concerns are in a way that isn't insulting, intrusive, and won't put the OP on edge.  He just didn't do that.

And sorry, I don't agree that it's a normal reaction.  I don't agree with a lot of what my family and friends do.  I might even think they are crazy sometimes.  But me feeling that way doesn't give me the right to express it so bluntly.

No, it doesn't give you the right to express it so bluntly. But the fact that it's expressed bluntly shouldn't give someone internal justification for ignoring the content of what was said either.

My father is a brusque and socially clumsy man who is sometimes even a bit of a thoughtless jerk. However, he loves me very much and only wants the best for me, and he's pretty darn smart about a lot of things. Occasionally throughout my life he has been concerned about some life decision of mine, and he has invariably expressed that concern brusquely and clumsily and sometimes even a bit thoughtlessly jerkily. While some of those times he's been way off the mark, and needed to back off because he didn't understand what he was talking about, many more of them have been times where his assessment and advice was spot on correct, and I just didn't want to hear it....yet.

He doesn't "have a right" to be so brusque and clumsy with me, but trying to change that behavior is a long term struggle in our relationship. He should be working on it more. However, regardless of how brusque and clumsy he is about it, I would be a *fool* to dismiss every single one of his concerns simply because he expresses himself badly. If my dad really thinks I'm about to do something disastrous, I'd rather him express it badly than keep his mouth shut and watch me hurt myself.

If someone rudely tells you that you're about to drive your car into a brick wall, you should probably listen.

First, the only internal justification anyone needs not to listen to advice is that the decision they are making is theirs.  The decision being foolish or not, does not make a rude statment suddenly not rude.

Also, we are not talking about a health and safety issue here.  The OP is not doing the equivalent of driving her family into a brick wall.  She is choosing to go to Disney.  That is it.  That decision does not come at the sacrifice of the well being of her children or anyone else in her family.  We don't even know for sure that it comes at the expense of a downpayment for a house...but even if it did, that isn't something that is so out there that the FIL or anyone on this board needs to make a mission to stop her from doing.

I personally would have (and did) choose saving for home ownership over going to Disney World.  But that was my choice.  It's no better or no worse that the decision that the OP has made.  And there are a million other factors in deciding to buy a house vs. renting one.  She may be saving for a house now, but that doesn't automatically mean that now is really the right time for her to buy one.  And it's none of our business anyway.  Just because I would have chosen differently, doesn't give me the right to call her crazy.  Even if my advice, aside from any of the colorful commentary I decide to insert it, is sound.  But, yeah, the OP has every right to justify not listening to me....regardless of what the consequences of her decision are.  That's the thing about it being her decision. 

I really think that some are blowing this way out of proportion in an attempt to justify the FIL's behavior.  What he did was rude.  Being concerned, her having financial hardships, and the ages in which everyone has enjoyed their trip to Disney is completely irrelevant.  The OP made a choice.  It is not illegal, immoral, rude, unsafe, or otherwise inconvenient for anyone.  Therefore any argument that the FIL can be rude and blunt in his delivery of his "concern" is justified, just doesn't apply. 

ettiquit

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Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
« Reply #95 on: March 01, 2013, 02:58:35 PM »
It is perfectly ok for someone you are close with to politely express concerns about choices you make.  The OP's FIL was not at all polite.

Also, I'm saving up to be able to afford to sell our house (at a loss, boo!) and simultaneously savings for the 3 family vacations I have planned for the year. 

It really doesn't have to be one or the other - especially if you're good with money.

LilacGirl1983

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Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
« Reply #96 on: March 01, 2013, 03:29:25 PM »
It is perfectly ok for someone you are close with to politely express concerns about choices you make.  The OP's FIL was not at all polite.

Also, I'm saving up to be able to afford to sell our house (at a loss, boo!) and simultaneously savings for the 3 family vacations I have planned for the year. 

It really doesn't have to be one or the other - especially if you're good with money.

This is it..We currently own a house. I guess I didn't see the relevance..but I guess it is..we are saving up for a bigger house and if we tried to move our house would be sold at loss..so we are saving up for both a bigger house and the disney vacation. We don't see any need for haste to move out but FIL thinks we need to move asap..His main thing was the age of the 1 year old and needing a bigger house. I know it was out of concern but still seemed like an attack. So thats why I was asking how to deflect any further comments about it. I know he will bring it up again.

SPuck

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Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
« Reply #97 on: March 01, 2013, 03:39:42 PM »
So thats why I was asking how to deflect any further comments about it. I know he will bring it up again.

"This subject is no longer up for discussion." Followed by bean dipping, and if he continues. "Since you don't seem to want to drop this subject we will be leaving now." And follow through.

Personally I think it is rude to comment on anyone else's financial situation unless they ask for an opinion or if there is money involved between the two parties. Neither is true in this situation so the FIL is being rude.

ettiquit

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Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
« Reply #98 on: March 01, 2013, 04:25:03 PM »
It is perfectly ok for someone you are close with to politely express concerns about choices you make.  The OP's FIL was not at all polite.

Also, I'm saving up to be able to afford to sell our house (at a loss, boo!) and simultaneously savings for the 3 family vacations I have planned for the year. 

It really doesn't have to be one or the other - especially if you're good with money.

This is it..We currently own a house. I guess I didn't see the relevance..but I guess it is..we are saving up for a bigger house and if we tried to move our house would be sold at loss..so we are saving up for both a bigger house and the disney vacation. We don't see any need for haste to move out but FIL thinks we need to move asap..His main thing was the age of the 1 year old and needing a bigger house. I know it was out of concern but still seemed like an attack. So thats why I was asking how to deflect any further comments about it. I know he will bring it up again.

We're definitely in the same boat as far as our goals go.  :)

Bean-dipping might be your best bet.

FIL: You are a lunatic for thinking that Disney is more important than a bigger house
LilacGirl1983: Have I shown you my recipe for kitten pie?

Sharnita

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Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
« Reply #99 on: March 01, 2013, 05:05:03 PM »
I must be in an evil mood because the thought popped into my head this afternoon that you have taken out a $1million life insurance policy on him so you expect to be in the bigger house by Christmas.

Must not actually say rude or mean things aloud but you can entertain yourself with an inner monologue.

Cami

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Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
« Reply #100 on: March 01, 2013, 05:14:13 PM »
It is perfectly ok for someone you are close with to politely express concerns about choices you make.  The OP's FIL was not at all polite.

Also, I'm saving up to be able to afford to sell our house (at a loss, boo!) and simultaneously savings for the 3 family vacations I have planned for the year. 

It really doesn't have to be one or the other - especially if you're good with money.
  It really does have to be one or the other if your income is not sufficient to support both. Many people can not support both. No matter how good you are with money, insufficient funds cannot generate more funds like Tribbles.

LeveeWoman

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Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
« Reply #101 on: March 01, 2013, 05:24:05 PM »
FWIW, I was responding to the general statement that "Concern is not rude. Unwanted and critical comments, however, are." Not the FIL's exact comments.

One can be critical and speak hard truths and not be rude, especially coming from a concerned family member. One could say, "I think this trip is an awful idea for reasons W, X, Y and Z," while those reasons might not necessarily be nice to hear, I don't think they would be rude.

Lilacgirl was not involved in a conversation with him in which she sought out  is opinion. She did not even start a conversation about it. He came over to her house in order to tell her that she is "crazy" and that this idea is crazy/silly.

Coupled with other things she's told us about him and/or his wife, he has a habit of forcing his opinion on her.

If he weren't her husband's father, would it be considered rude for him to show up at someone's house in order to criticize something which will not affect him?

Roe

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Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
« Reply #102 on: March 01, 2013, 05:29:31 PM »
It is perfectly ok for someone you are close with to politely express concerns about choices you make.  The OP's FIL was not at all polite.

Also, I'm saving up to be able to afford to sell our house (at a loss, boo!) and simultaneously savings for the 3 family vacations I have planned for the year. 

It really doesn't have to be one or the other - especially if you're good with money.
  It really does have to be one or the other if your income is not sufficient to support both. Many people can not support both. No matter how good you are with money, insufficient funds cannot generate more funds like Tribbles.

This isn't really up for anyone to decide, other than OP and her DH.  I don't get why people think it's their place to "understand" where the FIL was coming from or to say anything about OP's finances. She didn't come here asking for financial advice.

problemattic

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Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
« Reply #103 on: March 01, 2013, 08:10:15 PM »
My two cents...the important thing is that the child enjoy the experience; not that they remember it later.  Should we keep them at home until they are old enough to "make memories?"  I recall my little ones giggling hysterically, pointing excitedly, and thoroughly having a great time before they could talk.  Go have fun!

JenJay

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Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
« Reply #104 on: March 01, 2013, 08:59:34 PM »
My two cents...the important thing is that the child enjoy the experience; not that they remember it later.  Should we keep them at home until they are old enough to "make memories?"  I recall my little ones giggling hysterically, pointing excitedly, and thoroughly having a great time before they could talk.  Go have fun!

Very well said!

LilacGirl, when FIL brings it up again I'd say "You've mad your point. Our finances are under control and we're going to Disney. It's not up for debate."