young adults learning the hard way - update post #29

[nuit93]

Lynn2000 wrote:

"I think the original story is interesting because, if the scholarship had been obtained, it would have impacted not just the teenager but also his parents--I'm assuming it was a decent amount of money which otherwise his parents had to pay."

The bolded part jumps out at me.  Maybe it's just me, but I never saw any law passed that required a parent to foot the bill for a child's college education.  Sure, it happens all the time, but if my child blew a college scholarship through his own bad decisions, especially after going against or ignoring my advice, I'd have to think long and hard before ponying up the funds to offset it rather than put it right back in his lap to deal with.  Part of learning one's own lessons is dealing with the consequences of those decisions, and so the obvious consequence is that he has to figure out where to come up with the money that the scholarship would otherwise have provided.  If that means he's got to deal with heavier debt to get through school, then that's a life lesson learned and the next time such an opportunity arises I'd bet he'll put in more effort.

I can understand the idea that getting into a good school is extremely important, but at the same time my take on the whole thing is simple.  If my child doesn't put the effort into getting into Harvard including the understanding that outside advice will help his chances, then he probably doesn't belong at Harvard, and the vast majority of people in the world live a full life without a Harvard degree so it's not a life-or-death decision.

Virg

They aren't required to, but if they make a good deal of money and refuse to help their kid out with college in any way it can drastically affect their ability to get financial aid.

[nuit93]

Maybe it's a byproduct of a more or less dysfunctional upbringing, but did anyone else have the opposite realization when they became adults (i.e. that their parents were WRONG about an awful lot of things)?

[afbluebelle]

Maybe it's a byproduct of a more or less dysfunctional upbringing, but did anyone else have the opposite realization when they became adults (i.e. that their parents were WRONG about an awful lot of things)?

I don't know if it is a byproduct of dysfunction, but it is pretty darn satisfying knowing that your were right!

[violinp]

Maybe it's a byproduct of a more or less dysfunctional upbringing, but did anyone else have the opposite realization when they became adults (i.e. that their parents were WRONG about an awful lot of things)?

I don't necessarily have that reaction, but I do have a better understanding of my parents and their parents, now that I'm an adult and have finally been told about most everything that's happened in my parents' lives. I see how their thinking patterns have shaped mine, and why I have such a guilt complex, especially where family is concerned. My parents had childhoods that make mine look like Norman Rockwell illustrated it, and I've had to go to counseling for depression stemming from more than a decade of bullying.

Mostly, I just feel grateful that my parents were able to get past their incredibly abusive childhoods to raise Cabbage and me in such a way that we look to their marriage and their parenting as admirable goals. I try to let them know as often as possible how much I appreciate and love them, because I know they won't be around forever. 

[Yvaine]

Maybe it's a byproduct of a more or less dysfunctional upbringing, but did anyone else have the opposite realization when they became adults (i.e. that their parents were WRONG about an awful lot of things)?

Yup. There's been a lot of unlearning of messed-up beliefs about life, not to mention all the little random factoids that (it turns out) my dad just made up and taught us in total seriousness. Seems like every few months I find out something he said was utter tosh.

[GSNW]

Regarding paying for a college education, it's certainly not an obligation but it is a wonderful gift for parents to give their children if they are able. 

My parents paid for my BA, my books, and my health/vehicle insurance throughout college, and my dorm room while I wanted to live on campus.  I had to maintain acceptable grades to keep this arrangement up, and when I moved into an apartment, that was on my own dime.  I want to say I appreciated it at the time, but I REALLY appreciate it now, while I am in the final months of my master's degree -- which DH and I are paying for ourselves, while still paying off the loan from HIS graduate degree.  It makes me that much more thankful to my parents for what they were able to do for me!

[blarg314]

The bed-made-lie concept works best when the consequences match the behaviour. The problem with the university issue is that the consequences can vastly outweigh the behavior.

Blowing a scholarship interview can lead to less money for university. The parents then saying "Sorry, if you don't care enough to try, we're not chipping in the extra" does sound like a logical consequence.  But the ability to get student loans is generally linked to parental income. So if the parents make a good income, but aren't paying for university, it can push the teen from being able to attend university, to not being able to, and that has long term repercussions for career and financial security.

For a kid who wasn't mature enough to make good decisions, and too pig-headed to listen to reasonable advice, I'd be tempted to hold off on the financial support for education until they were mature or experienced enough not to waste it. Let them learn through hard experience on their own income and labour, which can make the lesson stick a lot faster than if they're doing it on the parental tab.

[Piratelvr1121]

Maybe it's a byproduct of a more or less dysfunctional upbringing, but did anyone else have the opposite realization when they became adults (i.e. that their parents were WRONG about an awful lot of things)?

Yup.  While on one hand there are some things that do make sense, and I can understand some of the frustration they had with me in school, I find I learn from them how not to handle it. 

My father was of the opinion that you are not financially dependent until you owe money to NO ONE.  Have a mortgage? Paying off a loan? You're not financially independent.    I have never met anyone else who was of that opinion as most people mean it as managing your finances independently.

And my mother was convinced there was something psychologically wrong with me and would armchair diagnose me with things that just made me laugh.  "You have OCD! Aspergers! Bipolar! ADHD!"  Anytime I did something she thought was "odd" she'd say "See? See? That behavior proves it!"    I did get diagnosed as ADD but a psychiatrist told me it was such a minor case that I didn't really need meds. 

Okay I love Pirates of the Caribbean and think nothing of wearing mismatched socks, and forget what I went upstairs for, but I can think of a lot worse things.

[bopper]

Maybe it's a byproduct of a more or less dysfunctional upbringing, but did anyone else have the opposite realization when they became adults (i.e. that their parents were WRONG about an awful lot of things)?

I don't necessarily have that reaction, but I do have a better understanding of my parents and their parents, now that I'm an adult and have finally been told about most everything that's happened in my parents' lives. I see how their thinking patterns have shaped mine, and why I have such a guilt complex, especially where family is concerned. My parents had childhoods that make mine look like Norman Rockwell illustrated it, and I've had to go to counseling for depression stemming from more than a decade of bullying.

Mostly, I just feel grateful that my parents were able to get past their incredibly abusive childhoods to raise Cabbage and me in such a way that we look to their marriage and their parenting as admirable goals. I try to let them know as often as possible how much I appreciate and love them, because I know they won't be around forever. 

I feel like that about my Mom too...she wasn't perfect, but she did not let the dysfunction of her family be handed down to the next generation.

[GratefulMaria]

Maybe it's a byproduct of a more or less dysfunctional upbringing, but did anyone else have the opposite realization when they became adults (i.e. that their parents were WRONG about an awful lot of things)?

I don't necessarily have that reaction, but I do have a better understanding of my parents and their parents, now that I'm an adult and have finally been told about most everything that's happened in my parents' lives. I see how their thinking patterns have shaped mine, and why I have such a guilt complex, especially where family is concerned. My parents had childhoods that make mine look like Norman Rockwell illustrated it, and I've had to go to counseling for depression stemming from more than a decade of bullying.

Mostly, I just feel grateful that my parents were able to get past their incredibly abusive childhoods to raise Cabbage and me in such a way that we look to their marriage and their parenting as admirable goals. I try to let them know as often as possible how much I appreciate and love them, because I know they won't be around forever. 

I feel like that about my Mom too...she wasn't perfect, but she did not let the dysfunction of her family be handed down to the next generation.

This is both my family and DH's.  Both sets of parents were emotionally and (in my case) physically abusive, but what they tried to give us compared to where they came from is downright heroic.  We keep telling our sons that our family has established a consistent pattern of improving upon what we've been given.  It acknowledges the screw-ups but puts them, we hope, in perspective and with a sense of promise for their own future.

(Regarding the first quote, the main thing we've realized about both my parents and the ILs isn't that they were wrong, but that they were wrong in how they handled it when WE were.)

[Quiltin Nana]

The only time my sister and I put our feet down was when our brother got married in an evening ceremony at a fancy restaurant in Manhattan. We said we weren't going to spend the next 30 years listen to her gripe about the fact that she wasn't in any pictures, when the truth was she refused to dress appropriately then said she was too embarrassed to be in the pictures. We found a very attractive (and loose!) ankle length dress with comfortable but cute flats.

I just had to comment on this.  I used to be on a bowling league about 15 years ago.  One of the bowlers in the league B, had a daughter get married.  Now this daughter was about mid-30's and B had thought she never would get married.  When B showed us the wedding pictures, my mouth dropped, and I floundered for a second.  Along with the beautiful bride in a white wedding gown and the groom and FOB in suits, there was B wearing the same dark blue smock shirt and dark blue pants that she wore to bowling every single week.  Actually since I never saw her outside of bowling, I'm not sure that she ever wore anything different. 

[Kate]

I am still waiting for someone other than myself to advise my 22 yr old daughter, that  clothes one would wear to a night club are not appropriate for the workplace, especially where one is serving the public.. She must be a good employee, they overlook her choices in clothing, or else its just expected these days ..makes me cringe.
 I picked her up at her workplace yesterday...she was wearing high above the knee leather boots, lace stockings and black hot pants (short shorts). I barely restrained myself from asking if she had a new "night job" on the street.
So glad she no longer lives at home and I can be blissfully ignorant most of the time.

[Yvaine]

I am still waiting for someone other than myself to advise my 22 yr old daughter, that  clothes one would wear to a night club are not appropriate for the workplace, especially where one is serving the public.. She must be a good employee, they overlook her choices in clothing, or else its just expected these days ..makes me cringe.
 I picked her up at her workplace yesterday...she was wearing high above the knee leather boots, lace stockings and black hot pants (short shorts). I barely restrained myself from asking if she had a new "night job" on the street.
So glad she no longer lives at home and I can be blissfully ignorant most of the time.

I really think fashion magazines are a big cause of this. If they really reported on "regular" professional clothing, there would be little to write about on an ongoing basis, so they hype up things that sell magazines but don't work in the real workplace unless you're a character on TV. I've read a million "The new sexy in the workplace!" type articles that make it sound like various lingerie-related looks are accepted in workplaces and are what everyone is wearing in the world's fashion centers.

[Virg]

nuit93 wrote:

"They aren't required to, but if they make a good deal of money and refuse to help their kid out with college in any way it can drastically affect their ability to get financial aid."

This issue works in both directions, though.  In the OP's situation, his son was hurting his chances in the interview by refusing to take clothing advice.  If that refusal resulted in a situation where the kid needed to borrow more and had a hard time because mom and dad have a lot of money, then frankly that's his fault and I see it as a good lesson to learn.

blarg314 wrote:

"The problem with the university issue is that the consequences can vastly outweigh the behavior.   Blowing a scholarship interview can lead to less money for university. The parents then saying "Sorry, if you don't care enough to try, we're not chipping in the extra" does sound like a logical consequence.  But the ability to get student loans is generally linked to parental income. So if the parents make a good income, but aren't paying for university, it can push the teen from being able to attend university, to not being able to, and that has long term repercussions for career and financial security."

See above.  There are a number of mistakes that one can make that have long consequences, and on the scale of such things having to skip going to college for a year or two or five still falls pretty far down the list.  Sure, it'll have a significant impact on the teen, but finding out that s/he's not going to be able to afford college in the fall is a lesson that won't be forgotten the next time the interviews come around.  I just don't see having to work for a year before college as such a horrifying consequence that it's to be avoided even at the expense of not letting a nascent adult learn to deal with real life.

Virg

[Midnight Kitty]

I did not go to college right after high school.  There is an almost 7 year gap in my educational history.  During that time I attended the School of Hard Knocks, got hired and fired, married and divorced, and changed my direction at least annually.  By the time I settled down to attend college full time, I was one motivated student.