young adults learning the hard way - update post #29

[Jones]

My parents weren't exactly dysfunctional, but I had the "you were wrong" realization very quickly once I hit 17, and still today I keep learning things that I learned incorrectly the first time. I was kept very naive, and they made a lot of religious-based decisions that I wholeheartedly disagree with now.

[Redneck Gravy]

My parents weren't exactly dysfunctional, but I had the "you were wrong" realization very quickly once I hit 17, and still today I keep learning things that I learned incorrectly the first time. I was kept very naive, and they made a lot of religious-based decisions that I wholeheartedly disagree with now.

I was raised by my grandparents and they were plenty dysfunctional.  My parents were so beyond dysfunctional that I was taken away from them and my grandparents were awarded custody...scary isn't it?

I am stunned that my brothers and I turned out this close to normal - and quite frankly we aren't!  Years of therapy have made me the nut I am today...and believe me when I tell you that I am the most normal of the bunch.  I have a sister that is in a mental institution because she suffers from paranoid schizophrenia and it is so severe that after the last episode the judge committed her with no chance of re-release.   

There is not enough room in eHell to share with you the mental issues our family has had (and some I just don't want others to know).  My biodad was murdered and my biomom was killed in an auto accident when I was a young adult.  90% of my good friends don't even know that, they just "don't" know whatever became of my parents they only know I was raised by my grandparents.  My own children don't know what happened in my childhood - just bits and pieces. 

 

[LadyDyani]

Maybe it's a byproduct of a more or less dysfunctional upbringing, but did anyone else have the opposite realization when they became adults (i.e. that their parents were WRONG about an awful lot of things)?

This.  Of course, I also realized that my 22 year old step mother may have been a little bit stressed when marrying a 33 year old man who already had three kids under five living with him, and moving in with her infant daughter wasn't going to make her life easier. Doesn't make it excusable, but maybe a bit more understandable.

[Mammavan3]

nuit93 wrote:

"They aren't required to, but if they make a good deal of money and refuse to help their kid out with college in any way it can drastically affect their ability to get financial aid."

This issue works in both directions, though.  In the OP's situation, his son was hurting his chances in the interview by refusing to take clothing advice.  If that refusal resulted in a situation where the kid needed to borrow more and had a hard time because mom and dad have a lot of money, then frankly that's his fault and I see it as a good lesson to learn.

blarg314 wrote:

"The problem with the university issue is that the consequences can vastly outweigh the behavior.   Blowing a scholarship interview can lead to less money for university. The parents then saying "Sorry, if you don't care enough to try, we're not chipping in the extra" does sound like a logical consequence.  But the ability to get student loans is generally linked to parental income. So if the parents make a good income, but aren't paying for university, it can push the teen from being able to attend university, to not being able to, and that has long term repercussions for career and financial security."

See above.  There are a number of mistakes that one can make that have long consequences, and on the scale of such things having to skip going to college for a year or two or five still falls pretty far down the list.  Sure, it'll have a significant impact on the teen, but finding out that s/he's not going to be able to afford college in the fall is a lesson that won't be forgotten the next time the interviews come around.  I just don't see having to work for a year before college as such a horrifying consequence that it's to be avoided even at the expense of not letting a nascent adult learn to deal with real life.

Virg

The employment situation in the U.S. is still quite bleak. I don't know of too many HS graduates who can land a job that would pay enough to save the minimum of $60-80,000 it costs to attend college in the U.S. today, let alone working for a year and being able to do so.

[jaxsue]

There's nothing wrong with paying for a kid's college education, but there is not a parental failure if kids pay for their own. In my case, I was expected to get at least a BA, and on my own dime.

Me too.  I knew at a very young age that college would be totally on my own, but I MUST have it (but that's another whole long story).  I also did not qualify for any grants or scholarships.   It took me 16 years of hard work, 3 jobs at a time, and a breakdown, but I got that blasted Bachelor's degree, and paid for it all.  And it was SO worth it, too.

Along the way I also had to learn everything else about being an independent adult.  We were taught NOTHING at home.  Not how to budget, not how to dress, not how to eat properly, not how to get or maintain a healthy relationship.  We were well-cared-for kids, but taught nothing whatsoever about being independent adults out in the world.  It was a hard struggle, and probably will never be over, but I did it.  Got the degree, got the good stable job.

The people I respect most are people like yourself. You were not given much to work with, and you've succeeded anyway.

[PastryGoddess]

The employment situation in the U.S. is still quite bleak. I don't know of too many HS graduates who can land a job that would pay enough to save the minimum of $60-80,000 it costs to attend college in the U.S. today, let alone working for a year and being able to do so.

People do go to college while earning minimum wage.  It's not easy, but doable.  It means you may not be able to take a full load of classes, but you can do part time to save money

Loans, grants, and scholarships are available to people who need them and are willing to do the work to get them.  My parents were not able to afford to pay to send me to college and they made that clear to me when I started high school. I knew that I would have to keep my grade up and get as many scholarships as possible to cut down on the cost of school.  I certainly didn't save up $40,000 before I went off to culinary school, but I did work throughout college years and got several scholarships as well. 

[Lynn2000]

On the subject of paying for your own schooling, my friend Adam had to do that--he learned a lot of things the hard way, not because he was resistant to advice, but because his parents were not very considerate. He was basically chucked out of the house after high school graduation, with little warning, and told he had to pay for college on his own. He got a full-time job at a package delivery place and went to the community college part-time for years--always taking one or two classes every semester. It probably took him ten years to get his BS but he did it. And he always held down a full-time job, got promotions at work because he was so responsible, etc..

Of course if he had gone to college full-time for four years, gotten a BS, then started at work, he would've started at a higher salary and not hit a salary cap due to lacking a degree--one of those things where people who had been working at the company less time were making more money just because they came in with a degree. But that depends on each company's policy.

Although quirky on the surface, he's always been very responsible compared to other people I knew at that age. I think it must have just been inside him somewhere, because it doesn't seem like he was taught much by his parents.

[Midnight Kitty]

The employment situation in the U.S. is still quite bleak. I don't know of too many HS graduates who can land a job that would pay enough to save the minimum of $60-80,000 it costs to attend college in the U.S. today, let alone working for a year and being able to do so.

Does a college degree buy one a much higher starting salary than HS?  I don't have children, so I don't need to worry about putting anyone else through college ... but I have many friends who are parents of HS/college age children.  We have discussed whether buying their child a house would be a better investment.  Then they could afford to live on a "service industry" salary since they wouldn't have a mortgage or rent payment.

IMHO - colleges are pricing themselves out of the market.  People are starting to question whether it is worth nearly $100,000 to get a better starting position.

My degree is a BS in engineering.  The "tech" degrees tend to have a better return on investment since all of my positions required that degree and, 28 years later, the salary starts getting good.  My parents divorced after I graduated from HS and before I started college.  *My* college fund disappeared in the divorce settlement.  I went to community college during the day while working swing shift, then went to community college evenings while I worked day shift, and still had to work part time while attending university full time.  At that, I had student loans that took me 10 years to pay off.  I don't think I would have done it for a degree in the humanities.

[PastryGoddess]

The employment situation in the U.S. is still quite bleak. I don't know of too many HS graduates who can land a job that would pay enough to save the minimum of $60-80,000 it costs to attend college in the U.S. today, let alone working for a year and being able to do so.

Does a college degree buy one a much higher starting salary than HS?  I don't have children, so I don't need to worry about putting anyone else through college ... but I have many friends who are parents of HS/college age children.  We have discussed whether buying their child a house would be a better investment.  Then they could afford to live on a "service industry" salary since they wouldn't have a mortgage or rent payment.

IMHO - colleges are pricing themselves out of the market.  People are starting to question whether it is worth nearly $100,000 to get a better starting position.

My degree is a BS in engineering.  The "tech" degrees tend to have a better return on investment since all of my positions required that degree and, 28 years later, the salary starts getting good.  My parents divorced after I graduated from HS and before I started college.  *My* college fund disappeared in the divorce settlement.  I went to community college during the day while working swing shift, then went to community college evenings while I worked day shift, and still had to work part time while attending university full time.  At that, I had student loans that took me 10 years to pay off.  I don't think I would have done it for a degree in the humanities.

At this point, the degree gets your resume a look.  I've seen so many postings that say you must have a college degree and won't consider anyone without one.  I got an A.A. in Hospitality Mgmt first and then a B.S. in Business Administration.  That degree has been super helpful as people seem to take it more seriously than a B.A. in Business.  I have no idea why though *shrug*

[Lynn2000]

It really varies so much by field, how much the degree matters. And within that, even the company. But, IME, having a degree gets you above the first "line" or "hurdle," like PastryGoddess mentioned. Also, as I mentioned with my friend Adam, his company policy said that people with a degree start at higher pay, and can max out at higher pay, than someone without a degree, even if that someone has been working there longer. I don't think this is an unusual policy.

A lot depends on the individual still, though. I mean, you can have a four-year degree and be a total jerk with no work ethic who can't hold down a job for more than a month, you know? And I also know several people, especially in computer programming, who never got a college degree but hold down great jobs, because their field/company values skill and experience over schooling, and they are responsible, hard-working employees.

Personally, I value full-time college starting right after high school, and that would be my default. But, if it was looking like I really couldn't afford that (for myself or my child), I would look deeper into my (their) career interests, and see what that specific field was like--if it was a good return on the investment to take out loans, go part-time, etc.. I'm in the sciences and a lot of college kids get summer internships that connect them to companies, who then snap them up as soon as they graduate and will even pay for further schooling. The internships often only take kids who are currently enrolled in college and then hire them only when they have the degree, so if you aren't in school (usually full-time) you miss out on that. I think you just have to do some serious research first about which strategy would be best for you/your kid.

[TootsNYC]

Can we skip the college discussion (both the value of the degree, and the concept of whether parents pay for it), and focus on other sorts of lessons--etiquette ones, especially, since this is an etiquette site--that we've seen young adults learn the hard way?

[Midnight Kitty]

Can we skip the college discussion (both the value of the degree, and the concept of whether parents pay for it), and focus on other sorts of lessons--etiquette ones, especially, since this is an etiquette site--that we've seen young adults learn the hard way?

Oops! Sorry.  I didn't mean to derail the thread.

[PastryGoddess]

Can we skip the college discussion (both the value of the degree, and the concept of whether parents pay for it), and focus on other sorts of lessons--etiquette ones, especially, since this is an etiquette site--that we've seen young adults learn the hard way?

Me either...sorry all   

[ladyknight1]

Child will be living in an apt next year. Oy vey. Not only is she a slob, but I don't know how she is going to manage having to pay things like utilities etc. She also loses and breaks things. And I'm guessing neither she nor mom will think it necessary to have rental insurance. I'm not even going there.

Snipped down a bit

If the daughter is a student, her apartment might be covered under her mother's homeowners insurance. The mom would need to check with her company. But renter's insurance is dirt cheap on it's own, I agree it's worth it.

Many apartment complexes require proof of renter's insurance before the lease is finalized.

[andi]

It's funny this thread came up just after we had our 2nd conference with Boo's teacher. He's 8, but having some issues with "listening and obeying" so we wanted to let his teacher know we were aware, working at home and open to suggestions.   During our conversation we talked about how some kids just seemed to be hardwired to learning things the hard way - but once they did the lessons usually stuck. It's hard to watch though.