Author Topic: young adults learning the hard way - update post #29  (Read 31585 times)

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seriously?

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Re: young adults learning the hard way
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2013, 11:51:58 AM »
It's REALLY REALLY hard to watch (and let) your child make a mistake. But I agree with the other posters that it is a life lesson that will certainly  make an impact.  My DS is 22, and I struggled with that for a long time... it's part of raising an independent responsible person!

Virg

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Re: young adults learning the hard way
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2013, 12:59:40 PM »
WillyNilly wrote:

"Actually a lot of appliances do waste electricity simply by being left plugged in, even if they don't have displays. Its usually not significant in an individual household, but its not non-existent."

This is true, Redneck Gravy, but at the same time your example is also true.  A device doesn't have to have a display or other visible power draw to consume power when it's off (many TVs don't have any indication that they're in standby mode, for example), because most of the devices that draw "vampire power" either use a standby current to maintain a ready state or a transformer of some kind (it's both in the case of a big screen TV).  However, a space heater is unlikely to use either of those things so you're most likely right about that example.  Check out the links that WillyNilly provided, but the two tempering comments I'll make are that the Straight Dope link gives a telling number (which is that the average cost for a given household is around ten dollars a year) and that some of the suggestions don't make a lot of sense.  One article suggests unplugging lamps, and I can't think of any lamp except the old touch-on lamps from the 1980s that draw standby power, so it would serve everyone to read the articles with a critical eye.

As a side note, driving with the headlights on at all times won't waste battery power because the battery doesn't run the car while the engine is running, the alternator does.  But (don't tell her!) it will very slightly reduce your gas mileage.  I do it because the safety factor offsets the energy loss, but it does have an effect.

For the jersey, I'd be tempted to let her win that one.  When her coach or a teammate (or maybe a crush) tells her she stinks, she'll never forget to put it in the wash again.  I think that's just about a perfect example of letting her learn the lesson the hard way.

Virg

Lynn2000

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Re: young adults learning the hard way
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2013, 02:37:11 PM »
Some people just have to learn through trial-and-error, I've found--thinking mostly of college students I work with (who I guess could be considered young adults) but also somewhat older people, 30+. To avoid seeming all "do it because I told you to," and also because I would not claim I am right 100% of the time, I often just mention a doubt and suggest they Google something. For example if one of our interns said "Sunday best" was jeans and a t-shirt, I might say, "Well, I've always thought of it as dressier, like slacks and a button-down shirt, maybe a tie even. Maybe you should Google it and see what people say about dressing for interviews." Of course the risk is that they will see a "wrong" answer right at the beginning and go along with their original idea. At that point if it basically just affects them I tend to let it go. And I can see how, if this is your actual child, you might not want to let Google always do the parenting. ;)

But I think these days it's the equivalent to getting advice from someone other than YOU, which may be more convincing. I had a co-worker that I was assigned to help with a project (as in, shepherd her through it) and she seemed resistant to taking advice from me. Actually her attitude wasn't resistant at all, but whenever I checked her work again she wouldn't have done a lot of the things I suggested, and she wouldn't have a good reason for it. I didn't want to be a dictator about things so instead of saying, "This fact is wrong, fix it," I would be like, "Well, I always thought it was something else, maybe you should look it up." And then if she claimed to find a source that supported her, I could look at it and point out where she'd misread, or something like that. It seemed to be a lot more palatable, or maybe memorable, than me just saying, "You're wrong. Here's the right answer."
~Lynn2000

AmethystAnne

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Re: young adults learning the hard way
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2013, 03:40:34 PM »
<snip>
As a person who hired 45 college students a year for an AmeriCorps program, I took notice as to how students dressed for interviews. I had one man who wore flip flops, shorts and an old tee to an interview. That said a lot to me. He didn't care about getting the job. Maybe he did, but he certainly didn't care about how he looked to me. If he didn't care about the interview what would lead me to think he'd care about doing the job well? I didn't hire him. He contacted me as to why. I was honest and he shot me back an response saying all kinds of nasty things about me judgmental attitude. Look, when I have 150 applicants for 45 slots, I can choose to be picky and I look at the nonverbal as well as the resume.


I think you dodged a bullet by not hiring this guy. Can you imagine the attitude his supervisors would get on a daily basis?

*inviteseller

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Re: young adults learning the hard way
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2013, 03:57:50 PM »
Oh, my 17 yr old DD will not listen to a word I say.  So, I have been sitting back and letting her take her lumps, then trying not to dance a little when she asks why I didn't tell her what would happen.   ::)

Midnight Kitty

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Re: young adults learning the hard way
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2013, 04:14:41 PM »
She's not a "young" adult, but there is a clerk in my office that is "advice immune."  She will not listen to advice, or directions.  She will challenge anyone who tells her how to do anything.  She will argue, even if she has no experience doing the task, she thinks she knows a better way to do it than anyone else who ever did the task.  She has fouled up mass mailings, then called in sick and 3 of us had to drop our work to fix the problem.  She fouled up the database - completely FUBAR.  Need to start over again.

I think she's trying to commit professional darwinism but her supervisor is too lazy to write her up for misconduct. >:(
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.  The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."

Marcus Aurelius

nalapuppy

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Re: young adults learning the hard way
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2013, 04:24:59 PM »
As a parent of a high school senior, I cannot imagine sitting quietly and letting my son make such a mistake.  This is his future he is trying for.  My son is a typical "know-it-all" teenager too, but part of being a parent is too teach them things, to help avoid big mistakes (if possible).

If my son was planning on wearing inappropriate attire, and arguing over the definition, I would simply say that he needs to look up the meaning.  A scholarship interview is too important to sit back and let him learn from a mistake.  Now if it was something like a dinner, wedding, etc then I would not say anything.  That would just be embarrassing, not possibly impact his future.

I'm not judging the OP, just saying my point of view.  We all parent in different ways. 

Marguette

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Re: young adults learning the hard way
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2013, 04:57:49 PM »
As a person who hired 45 college students a year for an AmeriCorps program, I took notice as to how students dressed for interviews. I had one man who wore flip flops, shorts and an old tee to an interview. That said a lot to me. He didn't care about getting the job. Maybe he did, but he certainly didn't care about how he looked to me. If he didn't care about the interview what would lead me to think he'd care about doing the job well? I didn't hire him. He contacted me as to why. I was honest and he shot me back an response saying all kinds of nasty things about me judgmental attitude.

 He said “judgmental attitude” as though it was something bad; ::) that he didn’t realize that making a hiring decision is all about judging.

TootsNYC

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Re: young adults learning the hard way
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2013, 05:40:36 PM »
My oldest is advice resistant and love to give unsolicited advice, so a double whammy.  I often have to say it in a vague way to dd like you did in the OP.  And many a times she will tell me afterwards but huh maybe I was right after all.  I tell her it isn't a matter of being right, just have been through it and then I change the subject.


Now my youngest dd is the opposite, she listens well and won't speak up unless she knows the answer for sure.  And has pissed off her older sister saying, "Didn't mom tell you..." lol  I have to tell my youngest to please back off her sister even though I know she means well.  And youngest always tells me, "But you are MOM!  You know everything!  Why is she being so stubborn?"  I only hope youngest doesn't outgrow that!

I too make the point to my kids that I'm telling them stuff because I've simply lived longer and learned more stuff.

Usually I tell them that I've messed it up myself when I was younger and that I hope they'll learn from my screwup--it'll make me feel better about having messed up.

For your youngest, that might be something to explain--that being "right just because you're MOM" is actually sort of insulting to your oldest. And that the reason you're right is NOT because you're mom but because you've simply lived more years and paid attention. And yes, have made a few of those mistakes yourself.
   It would help your youngest to recognize the distinction that you yourself have made.

Redneck Gravy

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Re: young adults learning the hard way
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2013, 06:01:51 PM »
My oldest DD just had a fit about Valentine's Day this year.  She has two children 3 & 9 months and could not get a babysitter and wanted me to keep the kids for her.  I had plans I was not willing to change. 

She said something along the lines of still being young and wanting to enjoy V-Day.  And my basic reply was, "I know exactly how hard it is to make V Day plans with two kids at home.  As I told you before you brought these two joys into the world - being a mom is all about sacrifice.  Now I have sacrificed my V-Day for the last 15 years to be around for you and your sister - it's my turn.  Welcome to motherhood."  I didn't mean it to be snarky, it's just the facts.  I gave up my V-Day dates and many others when I couldn't get a sitter and that's just the way that went.  Now she has two kids and that's what happens when you're the mom and can't find a sitter on ANY date, you stay home, make other plans, etc. 

This is another example of warning a child what happens when you make choices (good or bad).  I love my grandbabies but I am not giving up my social life because DD chose to have two children, I told her LIFE CHANGES when you have kids - think before you decide to have them young. 

I know this is more of an extreme example - but sometimes kids just have to learn the hard way.   

Rusty

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Re: young adults learning the hard way
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2013, 06:09:02 PM »
My DD's partner is a lovely person but unfortunately thinks he is an expert in most fields.   At the moment he thinks he is a tradesman and can fix all manner of things in the old house they have bought and are planning to renovate.   This entails him borrowing our power tools and so far bringing them back in various states of disrepair or just plain stuffed. Of course it is never his fault, "the thing must be faulty, or "I only used it for a minute and it blew up".

We have offered to buy him a few of his own, but he doesn't seem to think its necessary.

At this point my DH has steam coming out his ears over his precious tools and has issued an edict (to me) "He's not taking any more tools"
 
DH is a softy and expects me to issue the edict.   
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 06:11:39 PM by Rusty »

twiggy

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Re: young adults learning the hard way
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2013, 06:31:39 PM »
 
Quote
When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years. 

I remember Dad casually mentioning this Mark Twain quote when I was 18 or 19. I rolled my eyes at him. 3 or 4 years later, I agreed with the sentiment.  ;) ::)
In the United States today, there is a pervasive tendency to treat children as adults, and adults as children.  The options of children are thus steadily expanded, while those of adults are progressively constricted.  The result is unruly children and childish adults.  ~Thomas Szasz

bloo

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Re: young adults learning the hard way
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2013, 06:38:25 PM »
Quote
When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years. 

I remember Dad casually mentioning this Mark Twain quote when I was 18 or 19. I rolled my eyes at him. 3 or 4 years later, I agreed with the sentiment.  ;) ::)

I remember when I was 17 and just-turned-18 I thought my parents were so dumb it was a miracle they were alive. Within two weeks of moving out at 18, my parents looked like a couple of Einsteins.

And I was hungry...

Sharnita

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Re: young adults learning the hard way
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2013, 06:39:49 PM »
As a secondary teacher who works with as many as 300 teen kids a year these posts are making me laugh and laugh...

snappylt

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Re: young adults learning the hard way
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2013, 11:13:44 PM »
wait -but did he get the scholarship?

OP here again. No, he did not.  I'll share more of the story below.

As a parent of a high school senior, I cannot imagine sitting quietly and letting my son make such a mistake.  This is his future he is trying for.  My son is a typical "know-it-all" teenager too, but part of being a parent is too teach them things, to help avoid big mistakes (if possible).

If my son was planning on wearing inappropriate attire, and arguing over the definition, I would simply say that he needs to look up the meaning.  A scholarship interview is too important to sit back and let him learn from a mistake.  Now if it was something like a dinner, wedding, etc then I would not say anything.  That would just be embarrassing, not possibly impact his future.

I'm not judging the OP, just saying my point of view.  We all parent in different ways.

OP again  here. Nalapuppy, believe me, I think I know where you are coming from.  I was raised in the style I think you are mentioning.  Also, I myself was NOT advice-resistant as a teenager.  FWIW, I was the kind of teenager who worried too much and usually tried to please authority figures.  (I'll bet you'd have liked me if I had been your child!)

My own children are NOT like their father (me).  They are very independent thinkers and doers and don't seem to want approval nearly as much as I did.

The one son I wrote about here, particularly, makes his own decisions and digs his heels in quite thoroughly.  He gets very angry if his mother or I try to guide him differently than he wants to go.

He will, sometimes, listen to other adults who are not his parents, though.  So, a time or two when he seemed to be making some decisions my wife and I were really worried about, we were able to steer him in to visit with another adult whom he likes and respects.  The other adult told him the same things we told him, but he was willing to actually listen to the other adult and agreed to modify his decision.

(Please, I am not intending to get snarky here!) You mentioned that you wouldn't allow your HS senior son to make this mistake.  Let me just ask you, if your 17½ year old son was bigger and stronger than you and he stubbornly dug his heels in and insisted upon dressing his own way, exactly how would you force him to comply with you?  (I hope your son is not like I am describing - I hope he is more willing to accept reasonable guidance from you!)

I'll grant you, I didn't try that hard.  I have learned to pick my battles with this young man because he is very strong-willed.  In this case I gently suggested that he should pick dressier clothes, and when he insisted he was right, I stopped pushing.

In this case I already had some serious doubts that my son was likely to win this scholarship program.  While his test scores were very very high, and he had glowing recommendations from professionals in that field of study, his actual school grade average was maybe a tad below average.  This is a scholarship program that attracts many more applicants than spaces available, so my educated guess was that when they took a look at his actual grades, he would be eliminated because of his grades.

I never mentioned any hint of my doubts to my son, by the way.  I only made positive, encouraging comments (and silently hoped I was wrong about his chances).

Now - if he had had great grades to go along with his test scores and recommendations - if I had thought he had a better chance to be among the very few who actually get into that scholarship program.. I wonder if I'd have risked an explosion from him to try to insist that he wear dressier clothes.  Maybe I'd have pushed a little harder - although with this son, I doubt he'd have listened any better if I had pushed harder.

Did I worry about my decision to not make a big deal about his clothing?  Yes, because of my own personality, my initial tendency is to feel guilty.  So when he rejected my gentle advice the night before, I felt badly for him, because I was 99½% sure that I was right - and I was. 

I'll never know if it was his grades or the way he dressed at the interviews - or a combination of the two that led to him not receiving this scholarship program.  But I do think he himself said he learned a lesson that day, and this particular young man, I've found, seems to need to learn lessons independently like this, because he doesn't want to listen to his mother and me.