young adults learning the hard way - update post #29

[TootsNYC]

Similar to the last post:

My son carries his sneakers and gym clothes in a separate bag.
Suddenly they disappeared. It's possible for stuff to get lost in our messy home, but we couldn't find them.

So we calmly discussed where they might have been lost (on the bus? he didn't think so; maybe at Dunkin' Donuts).

I expressed chagrin and concern but pointed out: Grownups lose stuff like that too.

Grownups fall in and have to wear damp underwear.

The lessons we teach ourselves can be very powerful. But if you (the parent) pressure or scold, you can really undermine that.

I do like the "smart people learn from OTHERS' mistakes" point. I try very much to make the point, "it's not because I'm your mom; it's because I've lived for several more years than you."

[CakeEater]

Before I wore glasses full time, I lost them (as well as other things) by leaving them behind when I got up to walk away from somehwere I had been sitting, but had always recovered my belongings. After the time I lost them and didn't recover them, I started (at age 19 or so) standing up and looking where I had been sitting instead of just walking away.

Made a world of difference, and I have rarely lost items since. My parents had often nagged me about being careful with my belongings, but until it really hit me that day, I didn't care enough to come up with a system for myself.

[Ginya]

I've always had a mind of my own but I've always weighed my parents advice. In my younger adolescence I was much worse but thankfully by the time I was ready to go to college I had developed a fancy for dress clothes so that was never an issue.

However I do remember one particular disagreement I had with my parents when I was about 12-13 about the appropriateness of flip-flops as dress shoes.  I do believe I eventually changed my shoes for that event, but about ten years later I was shopping with my mother for a dress coat. It was a warm fall day so I was wearing flip-flops, while trying a coat on I told her I couldn't take myself seriously in them and she gloated in her victory. Sometimes time and experience are the only things that will change our perspective.

My mother said of me that she was happy that I questioned everything because it meant she had raised an intelligent and inquisitive mind that wouldn't blindly do as I was told. So I imagine it is frustrating to deal with a rebellious child, there can be an upside to all that stubbornness.

[Piratelvr1121]

Last June, after having attended church for a few months, I decided it was time for my boys to be getting some spiritual upbringing. I used to take them to church when they were toddlers but because it was so difficult to keep them quiet and still and there was no nursery at the church we used to attend, DH and I just stopped attending. 

Well the boys whined, they complained, they begged, did not want to go to church.  I told them "Tough noogies, you're going."  After the first time, as we were leaving, middle son said "That was an HOUR? It only felt like 20 minutes!"

Then mid summer we switched churches and again I heard "Why do we have to change churches? Why do we even have to go, it's booooooring! I know we're going to hate it, church is so boooooooooring!" (the previous church lost it's shine after a while) Well the church we attend now has a children's chapel where they leave at the beginning of the service and return before communion and other days, like today, they are given a part to play in the service, like being asked to do a reading, carrying the offering trays, etc. 

As we were leaving the church after the first time I hear "Mom, when do we go to church again?"
"Next Sunday."
"We have to wait a whole week?" 

[Adelaide]

My brother learned everything the hard way because he was so resistant to advice. He was one of those kids who thought that advice=judgment. I remember once my parents suggested that he move his truck (with the broken window) in the garage so that it wouldn't get wet. He insisted that it "wasn't going to rain" and the next morning he woke up to a wet passenger seat.

On the other hand, my parents were horrible with discipline. From as early as I can remember they expected us to "want" to do things like put our dirty dishes in the dishwasher instead of on the counter. They'd get angry with us once, kick up a huge fuss, and then let weeks go by without comment. If they thought of it again, they'd become indignant about it at some arbitrary point in time, and would then say "There's something wrong with you! Why don't you want to put your dirty dishes up?" If I'd have had a more developed sense of humor I would have just stared at them and said "Because I'm ten."

I think this sort of exchange lends itself to creating stubborn teenagers. (I'm not suggesting that parents are at fault for the angry cocktail of hormones or the stubbornness of teens, but in my case, my parents' half-hearted "parenting" style didn't give them any credibility in the eyes of myself or my brother. He learned early on that he could get away with murder with only the occasional lecture.)

[Katana_Geldar]

Why is it that kids know exactly how to push you? It astounds me sometimes how they know how to play adults against each other. And most of the time it's in a non-malicious way.

They can also have a strong sense of injustice when they see something or someone is being unfairly dealt with by an adult at just refuses to listen.

Sorry, that was a bit off topic. But I guess I kind of learned from my parents the hard way of being even handed.

[snappylt]

Several years ago, when our nieces were in junior high or thereabouts, we met up with them at a park that had a lovely creek going through it.  The creek had an improved wading area (steps leading to it, cobblestone bottom) that was about ankle deep, and where the wading area ended there was a "swimming hole" that was about three feet deep.  I recommended that the nieces stay off of the rocks near the swimming hole, because they were damp and algae-covered, and therefore slippery.  One of them said, "What happens if we go there anyway?"  I shrugged and said, "You don't have swimsuits or changes of clothes with you, so you're the one who has to walk around in wet underwear for the rest of the day."

As I'm sure you can predict, they all went and played on the slippery rocks.  The one who asked the question did in fact fall in, and was breathlessly waiting to be yelled at.  Nobody said a word.

About two hours later, she quietly said to me, "You're right.  I regret that."

OP here.  (My own bolding in the quote.)

I learned that strategy from my wife, the strategy of not pointing out the obvious when it is too late to do anything about it.  My own natural tendency, unless I'm thinking carefully, would be to say something like "I told you so."  My wife taught me that if I do that, my kids focus on being annoyed with me.  But if I don't point out the obvious, then they focus more on the problem and what they can learn from it.

[MaryMy]

When my oldest became a teen I set the tone for all future dress issues. They could dress how they wanted for school, following school guidelines. We are a family of jokers and teasers, so I let my sons know if I ever saw their backsides because of saggy jeans I could tease and sing about them having pimples on their backsides. Number one rule in dressing for my kids was they had to have one outfit in their wardrobe they could go out for dinner with me. No saggy pants, no t-shirts, no nasty sneakers. Denim was fine as long as they fit properly. I gladly bought the clothes for family nights out. Clothes I didn't like they had to buy themselves, that meant working a job. I never fought with them about dress, just set the example.

All 3 had the proper clothes to go for dinner with me all through their teen years. All 3 came to me about clothes for job interviews. The boys did have to borrow a few shirts from their dad at times.

The other thing we taught them was the cost of going out and why it's important to dress for that occasion. This lead to dressing for interviews whether for jobs or school. My husband worked to pay the bills, save for the future and vacations. I worked for fun money. I'd tell my kids how many hours I had to work for this night out at dinner. All this translated to job/school interviews. Dress for what you want in the future, the job you want to end up with.

We set the example and set the expectation. Thankfully our kids decided to join us in the fun nights out to eat. So guess  my point is I would have not said a word if my child wanted a 30 inch mohawk, I would have had many fun card nights with them. But, no, I'm not going to take you to a dinner at a restaurant with that wild hair. I worked to many hours for that dinner and you <child you> have to respect that.

My oldest son was working for a fastfood place. He was asked to go for management, if he cut his waist length hair. His hair was clean and held back and he wore a net. But the condition for the job was a buzz cut. He turned down the position and instead went into the army?! yeah confusing.

[Piratelvr1121]

Why is it that kids know exactly how to push you? It astounds me sometimes how they know how to play adults against each other. And most of the time it's in a non-malicious way.

They can also have a strong sense of injustice when they see something or someone is being unfairly dealt with by an adult at just refuses to listen.

Sorry, that was a bit off topic. But I guess I kind of learned from my parents the hard way of being even handed.

I knew a little girl who was frighteningly good at, as a friend says, playing both ends against the middle.  Her mother and grandmother did not get along and more than once I got drawn into her schemes to make good on the poor communication and relationship issues.

At the time I had two boys in elementary school and she told her grandmother that since her mother wouldn't take her to the back to school/meet the teacher night, I said that I would take the girl.  I didn't know I had said this until the grandmother asked me if I was sure that I didn't mind doing this.

I told the grandmother "I never said I would do that.  I have two boys in two different grades, I have to figure out how to meet two different teachers within a small time frame and get all the info needed." Grandmother agreed with me that it wouldn't work at all for me to add in meeting her granddaughter's teacher and got the girl to admit that her mother had never said anything about not taking her. 

(Course the girl was in the same class as our oldest but still...principle of the thing)

[Slartibartfast]

My oldest son was working for a fastfood place. He was asked to go for management, if he cut his waist length hair. His hair was clean and held back and he wore a net. But the condition for the job was a buzz cut. He turned down the position and instead went into the army?! yeah confusing.

A high school classmate of mine joined the army because he was "sick of people telling him what to do."

[GSNW]

I've gotta say, this is a great thread!

When I was a freshman in college, I got a super-exciting letter from Discover.  They wanted to give me a credit card!  My parents, who are probably the best money managers I know, strongly warned against it. I had a card of theirs for emergencies so my own card was not necessary (plus, they knew I was an avid spender).  But they were obviously too dumb to know what they were talking about, and I took the $1,000 credit card gladly.  I remember thinking at the time that they were trying to prevent me from having the means to go out of town with my then-boyfriend, who they really disliked.  I'd show them!

Yeah, maxed that thing out in no time and had nothing to show for it.  When they started calling my dorm room looking for payment and I realized my job at the student rec wasn't going to make much of a dent, I was pretty freaked out.  My mom was nice enough to help me re-work my budget so I could make a few months of pathetically small payments before strongly suggesting that I work my rear off over the summer and pay it off.  I listened that time around!


A friend of mine from HS inherited $500,000 when his grandmother died (this was my sophomore year of college).  I don't know many 19-year-olds that have any business with $500k, and anyway, he wasn't supposed to get the entire sum right away - but his mom gave it all to him anyway.  He bought a house which he proceeded to trash by renting rooms to his friends for next to nothing and throwing huge parties (admittedly, they were some great parties).  He bought enough clothes for the entire campus.  He bought stacks of CDs.  He bought a car which he also trashed.  By the time he graduated, all he had left was the house, which he sold for substantially less than he paid for it.  Very sad.

[Katana_Geldar]

I guess this why people put the caveat in their will for sums that large to be paid when the receiver is 25.

Pissing away 500,000...

[Adelaide]

I guess this why people put the caveat in their will for sums that large to be paid when the receiver is 25.

Pissing away 500,000...

Definitely true. Two of my cousins blew through an appalling amount each on meth and cars. I'm a fan of making the trustee live off of the interest until a certain age, like 25 or 30, before they get the principle. (If they ever do.)

[Yvaine]

My oldest son was working for a fastfood place. He was asked to go for management, if he cut his waist length hair. His hair was clean and held back and he wore a net. But the condition for the job was a buzz cut. He turned down the position and instead went into the army?! yeah confusing.

It makes a bit of sideways sense to me--as in, if he's going to submit to such a strict hair requirement, it'll at least be for a cause rather than just because of some megalomaniacal fast food manager's whim (because requiring a buzz cut for fast food is not normal--sometimes short hair is required but not specifically that). He probably thought "Wow, they're as strict as the army!" and then realized that the army pays better.

[siamesecat2965]

I guess this why people put the caveat in their will for sums that large to be paid when the receiver is 25.

Pissing away 500,000...

Definitely true. Two of my cousins blew through an appalling amount each on meth and cars. I'm a fan of making the trustee live off of the interest until a certain age, like 25 or 30, before they get the principle. (If they ever do.)

Oh I agree 100%! I d@ted a guy who had cousins who inherited millions when they turned 18 - their family had a well known regional chain of dept. stores.  At the time we were together, almost 20 years ago, all three cousins were I believe in their 30's, and none had any direction in life. They had just p*ssed away a great deal of their money. If I recall, a relative stepped in and somehow gained control, maybe a parent? and they then were given an allowance to live on, which I think was what they did. But none of them ever really had a job, or went anywhere in life.  It's kind of sad actually.

I know I say if I ever win the lottery, I'd be so much smarter with it now, than I would have at 18.