"You're being rude" - Etiquette hypocrisy & misunderstandings

[Layla Miller]

And finally, this story still cracks me up.  I was at Borders one night after work.  There was a man there, arguing with someone on his phone.  He was getting louder and louder and also getting pretty creative with language.  Eventually he realized everyone was noticing him.  He put his phone down and snapped, "This is a PRIVATE CONVERSATION!  Mind your own business!"

Honey, nothing about that conversation was private...

Well, obviously everyone within a fifty-yard radius was supposed to cover their ears and yell "LA LA LA!" at the top of their lungs.   

[EllenS]

Some people are afraid of big dogs, which is why I always got my parents golden lab to sit when kids wanted to pat him. I told them he'd have to say hello by sniffing them, but he would accept their pats much better sitting. He was gentle, but boisterous and will jump when excited.

My Mastiff is of the opinion that everybody in the world is adores him and wants to pet him. The problem is that, at 135lbs (and still growing...he was 120 just two months ago) there are a lot of people who are afraid of him.  As such, I have trained him to sit down and "ask" if he can approach a stranger.  I have encountered more than once person who are put off by my dog sitting down and looking at me when the stranger is trying to approach us.  Yes, I do understand that lots of people love my dog, but I feel this way is safest for all of us, and most importantly, those people who are afraid of very large dogs.

From my very limited knowledge, mostly based on shows like "Dog Whisperer", my understanding is that dogs jumping on people for affection is actually a form of dominance behavior - dogs show affection to each other this way, but only to those lower in the pack.  Low-status dogs do not jump on the alpha dog.  From what I gather, well trained dogs who are respectful of people are actually far less likely to become overexcited or aggressive, and are therefore much safer.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

[mmswm]

I'm honestly not sure about the link between "low status" dogs and jumping, but I will agree with the assertion that well-trained dogs are safer for everybody.  Let's take my dog, for example.  He's huge and very friendly, unless he thinks you're a threat to my kids (but that's another story).

Situation A: 135lb dog comes bounding up to you, trying to jump on you to get attention.

Situation B:  135lb dog sitting down, with a little bit excited tail-wagging and butt-wiggling, looking at his owner.  Owner looks at you and asks if the dog can approach for ear scritches.  If you say yes, dog walks gently over to you, sits down at your feet and looks up.

Obviously situation B is best for everybody.  Dominance or not, the calm, well-behaved and well-trained dog is safest for everybody in the area.


ETA:  Since I'm an owner of a "giant" breed that's known for being very protective, I take training very seriously.  Brazilian Mastiffs are actually banned as dangerous dogs in some countries, and need special licences in others, so I take my responsibility very, very seriously and have gone well beyond basic obedience in his training.  Yet I still have people claim that I'm rude when it comes to his public interactions and keeping him from just being able to go up and greet people without permission.

[dawnfire]

And finally, this story still cracks me up.  I was at Borders one night after work.  There was a man there, arguing with someone on his phone.  He was getting louder and louder and also getting pretty creative with language.  Eventually he realized everyone was noticing him.  He put his phone down and snapped, "This is a PRIVATE CONVERSATION!  Mind your own business!"

Honey, nothing about that conversation was private...

Well, obviously everyone within a fifty-yard radius was supposed to cover their ears and yell "LA LA LA!" at the top of their lungs.   

nah that would interrupt his conversation   

[weeblewobble]

My birth unit (doesn't deserve to be called a mother) used to hold me back at family events so I would be the last person to get food. With buffet-style service being the norm, by the time I would get in line the best dishes had been picked over. Her explanation was that the guest of honor always goes first, and of course the older people always go before the younger people. Fine, I accepted that. I was very excited when my uncle hosted my high school graduation party for me, and I realized that I would be first through the line. My birth unit dug her fingernails into my arm and said "not so fast, it's rude for the host to go first, you know." She made me sit in a chair watching the buffet line while everyone else helped themselves. The beautiful fruit trifle that I desperately wanted to try disappeared in front of my eyes, along with piece after piece of the graduation cake that I had designed. Seems as though these bullies make up the rules as they go along. The joke was on her though. My new family (college friends) and I threw our own graduation party for college graduation, and I finally got cake and everything else!

Absolutely.  Particularly bullying parents.  They keeping moving the goal - the goal being the kind of approval and love the child dreams of getting from their parents - around so just when the child thinks they're getting close WHAM! suddenly the target moves. They couldn't let the child REACH the goal, afterall.  That would be spoiling the child.  And it's not THEIR fault that the child never reached the goal!  Clearly, the child wasn't trying hard enough!

It's like Cinderella.  The stepmother tells her, "Oh sure, you can go to the ball.... after you complete this eighty-three foot long list of chores I've concocted.  Oh, you didn't complete the list of chores?  Oh, you lazy girl.  Well, it's not my fault you didn't try hard enough.  Afterall, I was generous to allow you to attend the ball!"

It's rough with bio-birth units, as you put it, because those people are supposed to be the ones who offer endless, unconditional love.  And for them to withhold that, is just cruel and insidious and says so much more about what is wrong with THEM and not what is wrong with the child.

[baglady]

(like customers always seem to think that the magic back room will provide their heart's desire if they bug the saleswoman long enough).

It's been two or three years, but I still remember the woman who stood at my group's fundraising food sale complaining that we didn't have anything she liked/could eat. As if complaining would make some food she liked magically appear. Thing is, our little volunteer food operation was just one of many sources of sustenance at the event she was attending. In a tourist town with restaurants, delis and other food places up the wazoo.

[Piratelvr1121]

I used to be nervous around large dogs, especially German Shepherds.  I knew about 3 at the time, one was my aunts and part of a K-9 unit (she's a cop) so we weren't even really allowed near him and anytime he could see us from his large kennel in her backyard he'd bark-loudly.  The other two belonged to a friend's parents and while they were playful, they were big and a bit aggressive in their play so they made me nervous. 

Also friends of ours had a Malamute that was extremely boistrous and aggressive in his play, and he'd scare my older two boys when they were younger and smaller. The dog even knocked down Pirateboy2 when he was about 4 and scared him to death.   He was crying, Dh and I were trying to settle him down and the guy was saying "He was just PLAYING!!!!!! Sheesh!! He wasn't trying to hurt him!" said to his wife who told him to put him in his crate, which she ended up doing. 

We're still friends with her, but not him and eventually they re-homed the dog, which in all truth was probably a lot better for the dog. 

[mmswm]

I used to be nervous around large dogs, especially German Shepherds.  I knew about 3 at the time, one was my aunts and part of a K-9 unit (she's a cop) so we weren't even really allowed near him and anytime he could see us from his large kennel in her backyard he'd bark-loudly.  The other two belonged to a friend's parents and while they were playful, they were big and a bit aggressive in their play so they made me nervous. 

Also friends of ours had a Malamute that was extremely boistrous and aggressive in his play, and he'd scare my older two boys when they were younger and smaller. The dog even knocked down Pirateboy2 when he was about 4 and scared him to death.   He was crying, Dh and I were trying to settle him down and the guy was saying "He was just PLAYING!!!!!! Sheesh!! He wasn't trying to hurt him!" said to his wife who told him to put him in his crate, which she ended up doing. 

We're still friends with her, but not him and eventually they re-homed the dog, which in all truth was probably a lot better for the dog.

This is exactly what I intend to avoid with Baxter's training.  He knows not to jump and lunge at anybody.  Thankfully, one of his breed traits is to be even more protective of little people, but I still train him to sit and wait for permission to approach, and then to approach gently.

[KB]

I have been told on occasion that I am rude and "ruining the party " because I don't drink alcohol. I don't tell others not to, I don't explain at length why I don't (alcohol has a supremely nasty *to me* aftertaste,  that's why) ; I just grab a coke or a water and don't mention that I'm not drinking.

But no someone finds out and lectures me. Seriously.

I get this, too, and it steams me up a bit. What really got me, though, was how I would get shocked faces from people at work when I mentioned on one occasion that I don't drink. (They often do on Fridays after work and I said no when they tried to push me to have a beer with them. Note that I sat and chatted, I just didn't drink.) One guy just would not give up on the fact that I didn't drink, and kept going on about it while I bean-dipped continually, until I finally said my goodbyes and left.

A week later, the guy who had been nagging me came up with an article from a guy who 'survived' Febfast.

This, for the uninitiated, is a challenge whereby people don't drink alcohol for a whole 28 days and donate the money they have as a result to charity. You can also have people sponsor you and add that money to your total. Come March 1, there were heaps of articles in the paper about how amazing people felt having been without alcohol for all that time, how they were sleeping better and had saved so much money and lost weight, etc.

This guy in the office was saying how amazing the people were who were doing this, it was so great for them, he was thinking about trying going without for a week to see how he felt, etc, even though it was just IMPOSSIBLE for people to go without drinking forever.

I couldn't help myself (not ehell approved, I know!) and pointed out the obvious - that it was quite possible for people not to drink.

He looked at me and said, "Yeah, but you're weird."

 

[iridaceae]

Drinking is so ingrained in the US culture that *choosing* not to drink seems to be almost literally incomprehensible to a large chunk of the population.

[athersgeo]

Drinking is so ingrained in the US culture that *choosing* not to drink seems to be almost literally incomprehensible to a large chunk of the population.

My father was once interviewed by a journalist working for one of the mainstream British tabloids. They met up in a bar at lunch time and, because my father had to get back to work afterwards, dad only ordered a tomato juice rather than anything harder. The interview was done and he thought nothing more about it.......until the next day when someone showed him the article which contained the immortal line "Athersgeo's Father, teetotal, had this to say about [some hot political topic of the day]"

[Shalamar]

I read an article on Cracked by a recovering alcoholic (John Cheese) about how awkward it is to be offered a beer by a neighbor.    Saying "I don't drink" is tough enough; saying "I don't drink because I'm a recovering alcoholic" is much tougher.  (He didn't owe anyone an explanation, of course, but he kept getting "Aw, c'mon, just one beer!" until he couldn't stand it.)

[hermanne]

The priest at the church I went to as a kid was a recovering alcoholic. The "wine" he used during mass was really grape juice.

/threadjack

[KB]

Drinking is so ingrained in the US culture that *choosing* not to drink seems to be almost literally incomprehensible to a large chunk of the population.

Oh, it's completely the same in Australia. In fact, most surveys and studies suggest that it's worse.

[Asharah]

My birth unit (doesn't deserve to be called a mother) used to hold me back at family events so I would be the last person to get food. With buffet-style service being the norm, by the time I would get in line the best dishes had been picked over. Her explanation was that the guest of honor always goes first, and of course the older people always go before the younger people. Fine, I accepted that. I was very excited when my uncle hosted my high school graduation party for me, and I realized that I would be first through the line. My birth unit dug her fingernails into my arm and said "not so fast, it's rude for the host to go first, you know." She made me sit in a chair watching the buffet line while everyone else helped themselves. The beautiful fruit trifle that I desperately wanted to try disappeared in front of my eyes, along with piece after piece of the graduation cake that I had designed. Seems as though these bullies make up the rules as they go along. The joke was on her though. My new family (college friends) and I threw our own graduation party for college graduation, and I finally got cake and everything else!

Absolutely.  Particularly bullying parents.  They keeping moving the goal - the goal being the kind of approval and love the child dreams of getting from their parents - around so just when the child thinks they're getting close WHAM! suddenly the target moves. They couldn't let the child REACH the goal, afterall.  That would be spoiling the child.  And it's not THEIR fault that the child never reached the goal!  Clearly, the child wasn't trying hard enough!

It's like Cinderella.  The stepmother tells her, "Oh sure, you can go to the ball.... after you complete this eighty-three foot long list of chores I've concocted.  Oh, you didn't complete the list of chores?  Oh, you lazy girl.  Well, it's not my fault you didn't try hard enough.  Afterall, I was generous to allow you to attend the ball!"

It's rough with bio-birth units, as you put it, because those people are supposed to be the ones who offer endless, unconditional love.  And for them to withhold that, is just cruel and insidious and says so much more about what is wrong with THEM and not what is wrong with the child.

Well, for the record, when we have a family event where the food is set up as a buffet, the parents usually feed the small children first, just so we can have them sitting and eating instead of running around. After that it's first come, first serve. Although my family knows better than to take all of everything on the first round, before everyone gets through the line.
Octavia, your birth unit was several things I can't repeat on this board, and I sincerely hope you don't have to share a buffet meal with her ever again. And your family sounds like a bunch of pigs with no consideration for those behind them in the line.