Author Topic: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?  (Read 12149 times)

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WillyNilly

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #45 on: March 07, 2013, 09:43:21 PM »
I would never, ever, even for a moment knowingly consider buying a house within 5 blocks of a home with an invisible fence. I would be beside myself with anxiety if I bought one unknowingly. Why?  Because I have a huge fear of dogs and because I've known three people with invisible fences and all three have had "break outs" at some point... and the dog is then afraid to re-enter their own yard because it means crossing the fence again. As a jogger I have been chased, bitten and jumped on by unleashed dogs more times then I can count.

So I understand the new neighbors stance.

But they are going about it all wrong. Starting aggressively and keeping aggressive is no way to get what they want. They should have calmly approached the dog owners, asked about the dog, explained their concerns and gotten information before anything. Once they had information (such as the dogs training, its history of remaining in the yard, how the invisible fence works, etc) they should have discussed with the dog owners if a compromise could be come to - such as please don't leave the dog unattended in the yard when the school bus comes, or during a certain time frame when they run, or whatever their biggest issue was.

bopper

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #46 on: March 08, 2013, 09:19:18 AM »
I would:

1) Make sure there is an "invisible fence" sign in my yard so it is clear that the invisible fence is there.
2) I would call the non-emergency police telephone number and say "I wanted to get some clarification about something regarding my dog.  We have an invisible fence installed and some times leave our dog outside.  Our dog does not run up to the border of the fence and generally goes about her business with out barking at people.  We have some new neighbors that moved into the apartment next door and have asked us multiple times when we are outside to tie our dog up and also have come over with a "petition". It is starting to border on harassment, but  I wanted to make sure that it was okay for us to be using an invisible fence?"

You are then putting the police on notice that these people may be giving you hard time.

Then to the people:

"I checked with the police and they said that it was okay for us to use an invisible fence and said they will drive by from time to time to make sure our dog is not causing any problems."

You are putting them on notice that the police are aware of this situation so they better not escalate and also that what you are doing is perfectly fine. But you are looking like you took their issue seriously.


EnoughAlready22

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #47 on: March 08, 2013, 09:27:17 AM »
Would a sign with a spare coller saying "invisible fence, test it at your own risk" be too much?  Yes I'm joking, but it gets the point across.  And yes, the new neighbors are extremely rude.

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #48 on: March 08, 2013, 10:25:36 AM »
Once they had information (such as the dogs training, its history of remaining in the yard, how the invisible fence works, etc) they should have discussed with the dog owners if a compromise could be come to - such as please don't leave the dog unattended in the yard when the school bus comes, or during a certain time frame when they run, or whatever their biggest issue was.

I'm afraid I can't agree with you at all. Unless the dog had already had a break out, there is no reason for the owners to compromise with you at all. Their dog is contained in its own yard. I'm sorry you suffer from such strong fears, but that is not for dog owners to address. It is your issue.

OP, I think it's fine to let them know about the petition and that you don't agree with it. Were I in your shoes I might likely have given the new neighbors an earful about their entitlement and unreasonable expectations of what can and cannot happen on someone else's property that does not in any way affect those outside of the property.

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #49 on: March 08, 2013, 11:01:20 AM »
Once they had information (such as the dogs training, its history of remaining in the yard, how the invisible fence works, etc) they should have discussed with the dog owners if a compromise could be come to - such as please don't leave the dog unattended in the yard when the school bus comes, or during a certain time frame when they run, or whatever their biggest issue was.

I'm afraid I can't agree with you at all. Unless the dog had already had a break out, there is no reason for the owners to compromise with you at all. Their dog is contained in its own yard. I'm sorry you suffer from such strong fears, but that is not for dog owners to address. It is your issue.


I also disagree. If your kids' bus comes at the same time that my dogs are having their morning exercise time outside (which is scheduled when it is because my DH and I wake up at a specific time and leave for work at a specific time), I'd have to tell you "I'm sorry, that won't be possible."

Isisnin

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #50 on: March 08, 2013, 11:40:42 AM »
Agree with prior posters.  The dog owners are not rude.  With the exception if explaining the electric fence to the new neighbors, the dog owners do not need to JADE.

It wouldn't surprise me if the new neighbors called their local Animal Control and Animal Control suggested the petition.  That's what they do in my town when there is a neighbor dispute.  When there's a complaining neighbor and no laws being broken, they recommend a petition.  That's how Animal Control separates the snowflakes from those with legitimate complaints.

These new neighbors have the potential to be special snowflakes about other things too.  "don't barbeque, the smoke bothers us." "don't garden early in the morning, it wakes us up" (that was a problem in my neighborhood).  "don't sit and talk on your deck after 8 pm.  The kids are in bed then and your voices wake them up".  the list is endless.


Zilla

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #51 on: March 08, 2013, 11:44:18 AM »
OP= Around here they have a sign that says, "Invisible Fence".  Does your neighbor have one?  If not, I would walk over and tell him or her about the petition and suggest they put up a large sign. 

WillyNilly

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #52 on: March 08, 2013, 11:52:01 AM »
Once they had information (such as the dogs training, its history of remaining in the yard, how the invisible fence works, etc) they should have discussed with the dog owners if a compromise could be come to - such as please don't leave the dog unattended in the yard when the school bus comes, or during a certain time frame when they run, or whatever their biggest issue was.

I'm afraid I can't agree with you at all. Unless the dog had already had a break out, there is no reason for the owners to compromise with you at all. Their dog is contained in its own yard. I'm sorry you suffer from such strong fears, but that is not for dog owners to address. It is your issue.


I also disagree. If your kids' bus comes at the same time that my dogs are having their morning exercise time outside (which is scheduled when it is because my DH and I wake up at a specific time and leave for work at a specific time), I'd have to tell you "I'm sorry, that won't be possible."

Perhaps neither one of you is reading where I said "compromise".  Perhaps they can't agree to the initial requests of the new neighbors but they can counter with some sort of alternate suggestion on their own. "Compromise" doesn't mean roll over and do what your asked or told to do, it means exchange back and forth suggestions until you come up with a solution which works out for both parties.

Being neighborly for the sake of being neighborly has extreme value.  You have to live near your neighbors for years and might someday want to call on them for a favor (maybe they have a generator when your power goes out, maybe a tree falls on your house or you have a fire and need some assistance, maybe you go on vacation and want someone to keep an eye out for you, maybe they have a hobby that is legal but somehow impacts your life and you want to ask them to curtail it in some way), being open to conversation and compromise makes future interactions more possible and pleasant.

If I approached a neighbor with an invisible fence and asked for a compromise and they worked with me and then later somehow the dog got out, I'd call them, because we'd have rapport.  If I approached a neighbor about a compromise and they rebuffed me totally and said they would do absolutely nothing to change or help me out and their dog got out I'd call animal control to have the dog taken in. Right there is a good reason to work with your neighbors.

Zilla

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #53 on: March 08, 2013, 11:57:38 AM »
Once they had information (such as the dogs training, its history of remaining in the yard, how the invisible fence works, etc) they should have discussed with the dog owners if a compromise could be come to - such as please don't leave the dog unattended in the yard when the school bus comes, or during a certain time frame when they run, or whatever their biggest issue was.

I'm afraid I can't agree with you at all. Unless the dog had already had a break out, there is no reason for the owners to compromise with you at all. Their dog is contained in its own yard. I'm sorry you suffer from such strong fears, but that is not for dog owners to address. It is your issue.


I also disagree. If your kids' bus comes at the same time that my dogs are having their morning exercise time outside (which is scheduled when it is because my DH and I wake up at a specific time and leave for work at a specific time), I'd have to tell you "I'm sorry, that won't be possible."

Perhaps neither one of you is reading where I said "compromise".  Perhaps they can't agree to the initial requests of the new neighbors but they can counter with some sort of alternate suggestion on their own. "Compromise" doesn't mean roll over and do what your asked or told to do, it means exchange back and forth suggestions until you come up with a solution which works out for both parties.

Being neighborly for the sake of being neighborly has extreme value.  You have to live near your neighbors for years and might someday want to call on them for a favor (maybe they have a generator when your power goes out, maybe a tree falls on your house or you have a fire and need some assistance, maybe you go on vacation and want someone to keep an eye out for you, maybe they have a hobby that is legal but somehow impacts your life and you want to ask them to curtail it in some way), being open to conversation and compromise makes future interactions more possible and pleasant.

If I approached a neighbor with an invisible fence and asked for a compromise and they worked with me and then later somehow the dog got out, I'd call them, because we'd have rapport.  If I approached a neighbor about a compromise and they rebuffed me totally and said they would do absolutely nothing to change or help me out and their dog got out I'd call animal control to have the dog taken in. Right there is a good reason to work with your neighbors.


They aren't going to remove the dog just because you don't like their invisible fence.  And it requires more steps that just on your say so as well. 

Spring Water on Sundays

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #54 on: March 08, 2013, 12:06:56 PM »
Once they had information (such as the dogs training, its history of remaining in the yard, how the invisible fence works, etc) they should have discussed with the dog owners if a compromise could be come to - such as please don't leave the dog unattended in the yard when the school bus comes, or during a certain time frame when they run, or whatever their biggest issue was.

I'm afraid I can't agree with you at all. Unless the dog had already had a break out, there is no reason for the owners to compromise with you at all. Their dog is contained in its own yard. I'm sorry you suffer from such strong fears, but that is not for dog owners to address. It is your issue.


I also disagree. If your kids' bus comes at the same time that my dogs are having their morning exercise time outside (which is scheduled when it is because my DH and I wake up at a specific time and leave for work at a specific time), I'd have to tell you "I'm sorry, that won't be possible."

Perhaps neither one of you is reading where I said "compromise".  Perhaps they can't agree to the initial requests of the new neighbors but they can counter with some sort of alternate suggestion on their own. "Compromise" doesn't mean roll over and do what your asked or told to do, it means exchange back and forth suggestions until you come up with a solution which works out for both parties.

Being neighborly for the sake of being neighborly has extreme value.  You have to live near your neighbors for years and might someday want to call on them for a favor (maybe they have a generator when your power goes out, maybe a tree falls on your house or you have a fire and need some assistance, maybe you go on vacation and want someone to keep an eye out for you, maybe they have a hobby that is legal but somehow impacts your life and you want to ask them to curtail it in some way), being open to conversation and compromise makes future interactions more possible and pleasant.

If I approached a neighbor with an invisible fence and asked for a compromise and they worked with me and then later somehow the dog got out, I'd call them, because we'd have rapport.  If I approached a neighbor about a compromise and they rebuffed me totally and said they would do absolutely nothing to change or help me out and their dog got out I'd call animal control to have the dog taken in. Right there is a good reason to work with your neighbors.

I understand about the importance of compromise and I do value the good relationships I have with my neighbors. Unfortunately, sometimes compromise just isn't possible. Hypothetically, I could work with you on not having my dogs inside when you go for your evening run (assuming you were on a set schedule so I wasn't having to watch out my door for you), but in the case of my dogs being outside when the bus comes, I honestly don't see a solution that would be satisfactory to you (ETA: unless I misunderstood and there is some other action I could take that doesn't involve keeping my dogs inside at that time) but that won't leave me feeling resentful and inconvenienced. My dogs are going to be outside in the morning before I leave for work.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 12:17:15 PM by Spring Water on Sundays »

WillyNilly

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #55 on: March 08, 2013, 12:19:49 PM »
Once they had information (such as the dogs training, its history of remaining in the yard, how the invisible fence works, etc) they should have discussed with the dog owners if a compromise could be come to - such as please don't leave the dog unattended in the yard when the school bus comes, or during a certain time frame when they run, or whatever their biggest issue was.

I'm afraid I can't agree with you at all. Unless the dog had already had a break out, there is no reason for the owners to compromise with you at all. Their dog is contained in its own yard. I'm sorry you suffer from such strong fears, but that is not for dog owners to address. It is your issue.


I also disagree. If your kids' bus comes at the same time that my dogs are having their morning exercise time outside (which is scheduled when it is because my DH and I wake up at a specific time and leave for work at a specific time), I'd have to tell you "I'm sorry, that won't be possible."

Perhaps neither one of you is reading where I said "compromise".  Perhaps they can't agree to the initial requests of the new neighbors but they can counter with some sort of alternate suggestion on their own. "Compromise" doesn't mean roll over and do what your asked or told to do, it means exchange back and forth suggestions until you come up with a solution which works out for both parties.

Being neighborly for the sake of being neighborly has extreme value.  You have to live near your neighbors for years and might someday want to call on them for a favor (maybe they have a generator when your power goes out, maybe a tree falls on your house or you have a fire and need some assistance, maybe you go on vacation and want someone to keep an eye out for you, maybe they have a hobby that is legal but somehow impacts your life and you want to ask them to curtail it in some way), being open to conversation and compromise makes future interactions more possible and pleasant.

If I approached a neighbor with an invisible fence and asked for a compromise and they worked with me and then later somehow the dog got out, I'd call them, because we'd have rapport.  If I approached a neighbor about a compromise and they rebuffed me totally and said they would do absolutely nothing to change or help me out and their dog got out I'd call animal control to have the dog taken in. Right there is a good reason to work with your neighbors.


They aren't going to remove the dog just because you don't like their invisible fence.  And it requires more steps that just on your say so as well. 

I'm not saying they should.  but maybe they have specific times they let the dog out, well they can communicate that.  A new neighbor might not realize there is a basic schedule.  If the dog owners communicate the schedule the new neighbors can perhaps modify their behavior, etc.

This isn't really different then something like a neighbor playing loud but within legal limits music in their backyard all summer long.  Sure they might be allowed to do it, and the other neighbors might not mind for whatever reason, but its still a legitimate concerns of some neighbors. 

Its always best to approach the situation calmly and in hopes of a compromise first, instead of aggressively off the bat.

If the new neighbors had approached the dog owners calmly and politely, and were still rebuffed and then went around the neighborhood calmly and politely with their petition, this whole thread wouldn't even exist. The new neighbors have the right to be concerned about the dog. The concerns might not ever come to happen, but its not wrong to have them and to address them. Its merely the way the new neighbors are going about it that is the problem.

Spring Water on Sundays

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #56 on: March 08, 2013, 12:27:36 PM »
Once they had information (such as the dogs training, its history of remaining in the yard, how the invisible fence works, etc) they should have discussed with the dog owners if a compromise could be come to - such as please don't leave the dog unattended in the yard when the school bus comes, or during a certain time frame when they run, or whatever their biggest issue was.

I'm afraid I can't agree with you at all. Unless the dog had already had a break out, there is no reason for the owners to compromise with you at all. Their dog is contained in its own yard. I'm sorry you suffer from such strong fears, but that is not for dog owners to address. It is your issue.


I also disagree. If your kids' bus comes at the same time that my dogs are having their morning exercise time outside (which is scheduled when it is because my DH and I wake up at a specific time and leave for work at a specific time), I'd have to tell you "I'm sorry, that won't be possible."

Perhaps neither one of you is reading where I said "compromise".  Perhaps they can't agree to the initial requests of the new neighbors but they can counter with some sort of alternate suggestion on their own. "Compromise" doesn't mean roll over and do what your asked or told to do, it means exchange back and forth suggestions until you come up with a solution which works out for both parties.

Being neighborly for the sake of being neighborly has extreme value.  You have to live near your neighbors for years and might someday want to call on them for a favor (maybe they have a generator when your power goes out, maybe a tree falls on your house or you have a fire and need some assistance, maybe you go on vacation and want someone to keep an eye out for you, maybe they have a hobby that is legal but somehow impacts your life and you want to ask them to curtail it in some way), being open to conversation and compromise makes future interactions more possible and pleasant.

If I approached a neighbor with an invisible fence and asked for a compromise and they worked with me and then later somehow the dog got out, I'd call them, because we'd have rapport.  If I approached a neighbor about a compromise and they rebuffed me totally and said they would do absolutely nothing to change or help me out and their dog got out I'd call animal control to have the dog taken in. Right there is a good reason to work with your neighbors.


They aren't going to remove the dog just because you don't like their invisible fence.  And it requires more steps that just on your say so as well. 

I'm not saying they should.  but maybe they have specific times they let the dog out, well they can communicate that.  A new neighbor might not realize there is a basic schedule.  If the dog owners communicate the schedule the new neighbors can perhaps modify their behavior, etc.

This isn't really different then something like a neighbor playing loud but within legal limits music in their backyard all summer long.  Sure they might be allowed to do it, and the other neighbors might not mind for whatever reason, but its still a legitimate concerns of some neighbors. 

Its always best to approach the situation calmly and in hopes of a compromise first, instead of aggressively off the bat.

If the new neighbors had approached the dog owners calmly and politely, and were still rebuffed and then went around the neighborhood calmly and politely with their petition, this whole thread wouldn't even exist. The new neighbors have the right to be concerned about the dog. The concerns might not ever come to happen, but its not wrong to have them and to address them. Its merely the way the new neighbors are going about it that is the problem.

Ah, okay. I understand what you're saying now. Yes, of course I would be polite, and explain that my dogs are outside at that time because blah blah blah reasons, but the end result would still be that my dogs are outside at that time.

bansidhe

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #57 on: March 08, 2013, 12:43:04 PM »
Its always best to approach the situation calmly and in hopes of a compromise first, instead of aggressively off the bat.

I agree with this 100%. Alas, it appears to be a bit late in the game in this case, since the neighbors have already approached the situation aggressively. It's probably time for mediation. Some homeowners associations offer this service, if there is an HOA involved, and so do some animal control organizations.
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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #58 on: March 08, 2013, 01:05:38 PM »
Once they had information (such as the dogs training, its history of remaining in the yard, how the invisible fence works, etc) they should have discussed with the dog owners if a compromise could be come to - such as please don't leave the dog unattended in the yard when the school bus comes, or during a certain time frame when they run, or whatever their biggest issue was.

I'm afraid I can't agree with you at all. Unless the dog had already had a break out, there is no reason for the owners to compromise with you at all. Their dog is contained in its own yard. I'm sorry you suffer from such strong fears, but that is not for dog owners to address. It is your issue.


I also disagree. If your kids' bus comes at the same time that my dogs are having their morning exercise time outside (which is scheduled when it is because my DH and I wake up at a specific time and leave for work at a specific time), I'd have to tell you "I'm sorry, that won't be possible."

Perhaps neither one of you is reading where I said "compromise".  Perhaps they can't agree to the initial requests of the new neighbors but they can counter with some sort of alternate suggestion on their own. "Compromise" doesn't mean roll over and do what your asked or told to do, it means exchange back and forth suggestions until you come up with a solution which works out for both parties.

Being neighborly for the sake of being neighborly has extreme value.  You have to live near your neighbors for years and might someday want to call on them for a favor (maybe they have a generator when your power goes out, maybe a tree falls on your house or you have a fire and need some assistance, maybe you go on vacation and want someone to keep an eye out for you, maybe they have a hobby that is legal but somehow impacts your life and you want to ask them to curtail it in some way), being open to conversation and compromise makes future interactions more possible and pleasant.

If I approached a neighbor with an invisible fence and asked for a compromise and they worked with me and then later somehow the dog got out, I'd call them, because we'd have rapport.  If I approached a neighbor about a compromise and they rebuffed me totally and said they would do absolutely nothing to change or help me out and their dog got out I'd call animal control to have the dog taken in. Right there is a good reason to work with your neighbors.


They aren't going to remove the dog just because you don't like their invisible fence.  And it requires more steps that just on your say so as well. 

I'm not saying they should.  but maybe they have specific times they let the dog out, well they can communicate that.  A new neighbor might not realize there is a basic schedule.  If the dog owners communicate the schedule the new neighbors can perhaps modify their behavior, etc.

This isn't really different then something like a neighbor playing loud but within legal limits music in their backyard all summer long.  Sure they might be allowed to do it, and the other neighbors might not mind for whatever reason, but its still a legitimate concerns of some neighbors. 

Its always best to approach the situation calmly and in hopes of a compromise first, instead of aggressively off the bat.

If the new neighbors had approached the dog owners calmly and politely, and were still rebuffed and then went around the neighborhood calmly and politely with their petition, this whole thread wouldn't even exist. The new neighbors have the right to be concerned about the dog. The concerns might not ever come to happen, but its not wrong to have them and to address them. Its merely the way the new neighbors are going about it that is the problem.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. If a neighbor, especially a brand-new neighbor, came to my door asking me to sign a petition demanding that their neighbor's dog be tied up or kept inside at certain times, when the dog was already inside an invisible fence with no issues (i.e., the dog didn't have any history of escaping or acting aggressively), then it wouldn't matter to me how politely they'd approached the neighbor beforehand. I would still think they were being Special Snowflakes of the highest order, harassing the existing dog-owning neighbor, and (rudely) trying to draw everyone else in the neighborhood into their bizarre vendetta.

Sorry, WillyNilly, but if living next to a dog restrained by an invisible fence is something you can't stomach, I think it's your obligation to find a living situation where you won't have to deal with it or to find ways to work around it (for instance, finding out the dog's typical schedule so you can avoid it). Some neighbors might be kind and work with you, but they've already done their due diligence in restraining their dog. Asking them to compromise is reasonable (although IMO still pretty nervy in this case). Petitioning the neighbors when they decline to compromise is not reasonable. Moving in next to a household that already has a dog with an invisible fence (like the neighbors in the OP) and then expecting the dog owners to change is simply absurd. If they can't live next to a dog with an invisible fence, the time to find out if there were dogs next door and how they were contained was before they signed the lease.

TootsNYC

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #59 on: March 08, 2013, 01:19:19 PM »
actually, "compromise" is the wrong word.

WillyNilly would be asking them to "accommodate" her, not to compromise with her.
In a compromise, both people give up something in order to get something they want.

The dog's owners want nothing from the neighbors.