Author Topic: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?  (Read 12150 times)

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Spring Water on Sundays

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #60 on: March 08, 2013, 01:31:18 PM »
Once they had information (such as the dogs training, its history of remaining in the yard, how the invisible fence works, etc) they should have discussed with the dog owners if a compromise could be come to - such as please don't leave the dog unattended in the yard when the school bus comes, or during a certain time frame when they run, or whatever their biggest issue was.

I'm afraid I can't agree with you at all. Unless the dog had already had a break out, there is no reason for the owners to compromise with you at all. Their dog is contained in its own yard. I'm sorry you suffer from such strong fears, but that is not for dog owners to address. It is your issue.


I also disagree. If your kids' bus comes at the same time that my dogs are having their morning exercise time outside (which is scheduled when it is because my DH and I wake up at a specific time and leave for work at a specific time), I'd have to tell you "I'm sorry, that won't be possible."

Perhaps neither one of you is reading where I said "compromise".  Perhaps they can't agree to the initial requests of the new neighbors but they can counter with some sort of alternate suggestion on their own. "Compromise" doesn't mean roll over and do what your asked or told to do, it means exchange back and forth suggestions until you come up with a solution which works out for both parties.

Being neighborly for the sake of being neighborly has extreme value.  You have to live near your neighbors for years and might someday want to call on them for a favor (maybe they have a generator when your power goes out, maybe a tree falls on your house or you have a fire and need some assistance, maybe you go on vacation and want someone to keep an eye out for you, maybe they have a hobby that is legal but somehow impacts your life and you want to ask them to curtail it in some way), being open to conversation and compromise makes future interactions more possible and pleasant.

If I approached a neighbor with an invisible fence and asked for a compromise and they worked with me and then later somehow the dog got out, I'd call them, because we'd have rapport.  If I approached a neighbor about a compromise and they rebuffed me totally and said they would do absolutely nothing to change or help me out and their dog got out I'd call animal control to have the dog taken in. Right there is a good reason to work with your neighbors.


They aren't going to remove the dog just because you don't like their invisible fence.  And it requires more steps that just on your say so as well. 

I'm not saying they should.  but maybe they have specific times they let the dog out, well they can communicate that.  A new neighbor might not realize there is a basic schedule.  If the dog owners communicate the schedule the new neighbors can perhaps modify their behavior, etc.

This isn't really different then something like a neighbor playing loud but within legal limits music in their backyard all summer long.  Sure they might be allowed to do it, and the other neighbors might not mind for whatever reason, but its still a legitimate concerns of some neighbors. 

Its always best to approach the situation calmly and in hopes of a compromise first, instead of aggressively off the bat.

If the new neighbors had approached the dog owners calmly and politely, and were still rebuffed and then went around the neighborhood calmly and politely with their petition, this whole thread wouldn't even exist. The new neighbors have the right to be concerned about the dog. The concerns might not ever come to happen, but its not wrong to have them and to address them. Its merely the way the new neighbors are going about it that is the problem.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. If a neighbor, especially a brand-new neighbor, came to my door asking me to sign a petition demanding that their neighbor's dog be tied up or kept inside at certain times, when the dog was already inside an invisible fence with no issues (i.e., the dog didn't have any history of escaping or acting aggressively), then it wouldn't matter to me how politely they'd approached the neighbor beforehand. I would still think they were being Special Snowflakes of the highest order, harassing the existing dog-owning neighbor, and (rudely) trying to draw everyone else in the neighborhood into their bizarre vendetta.

Sorry, WillyNilly, but if living next to a dog restrained by an invisible fence is something you can't stomach, I think it's your obligation to find a living situation where you won't have to deal with it or to find ways to work around it (for instance, finding out the dog's typical schedule so you can avoid it). Some neighbors might be kind and work with you, but they've already done their due diligence in restraining their dog. Asking them to compromise is reasonable (although IMO still pretty nervy in this case). Petitioning the neighbors when they decline to compromise is not reasonable. Moving in next to a household that already has a dog with an invisible fence (like the neighbors in the OP) and then expecting the dog owners to change is simply absurd. If they can't live next to a dog with an invisible fence, the time to find out if there were dogs next door and how they were contained was before they signed the lease.

Yeah, I forgot to add that point. Anyone who moved into my neighborhood and went door-to-door with a petition to force another neighbor into altering behavior that is completely reasonable and legal would be pretty effectively shunned - no matter how politely they approached the "offending" neighbor before petitioning. I would definitely post about it here ;)

Twik

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #61 on: March 08, 2013, 03:01:55 PM »
I would never, ever, even for a moment knowingly consider buying a house within 5 blocks of a home with an invisible fence. I would be beside myself with anxiety if I bought one unknowingly. Why?  Because I have a huge fear of dogs and because I've known three people with invisible fences and all three have had "break outs" at some point...

To be fair, dogs often break out of totally visible fences. Even tethered animals can escape (our Boston terrier was particularly good at a little neck roll that immediately got her out of her collar). She was also good at digging holes surprisingly deep surprisingly quickly.
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Eden

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #62 on: March 08, 2013, 04:06:50 PM »
Once they had information (such as the dogs training, its history of remaining in the yard, how the invisible fence works, etc) they should have discussed with the dog owners if a compromise could be come to - such as please don't leave the dog unattended in the yard when the school bus comes, or during a certain time frame when they run, or whatever their biggest issue was.

I'm afraid I can't agree with you at all. Unless the dog had already had a break out, there is no reason for the owners to compromise with you at all. Their dog is contained in its own yard. I'm sorry you suffer from such strong fears, but that is not for dog owners to address. It is your issue.


I also disagree. If your kids' bus comes at the same time that my dogs are having their morning exercise time outside (which is scheduled when it is because my DH and I wake up at a specific time and leave for work at a specific time), I'd have to tell you "I'm sorry, that won't be possible."

Perhaps neither one of you is reading where I said "compromise".  Perhaps they can't agree to the initial requests of the new neighbors but they can counter with some sort of alternate suggestion on their own. "Compromise" doesn't mean roll over and do what your asked or told to do, it means exchange back and forth suggestions until you come up with a solution which works out for both parties.

Being neighborly for the sake of being neighborly has extreme value.  You have to live near your neighbors for years and might someday want to call on them for a favor (maybe they have a generator when your power goes out, maybe a tree falls on your house or you have a fire and need some assistance, maybe you go on vacation and want someone to keep an eye out for you, maybe they have a hobby that is legal but somehow impacts your life and you want to ask them to curtail it in some way), being open to conversation and compromise makes future interactions more possible and pleasant.

If I approached a neighbor with an invisible fence and asked for a compromise and they worked with me and then later somehow the dog got out, I'd call them, because we'd have rapport.  If I approached a neighbor about a compromise and they rebuffed me totally and said they would do absolutely nothing to change or help me out and their dog got out I'd call animal control to have the dog taken in. Right there is a good reason to work with your neighbors.


They aren't going to remove the dog just because you don't like their invisible fence.  And it requires more steps that just on your say so as well. 

I'm not saying they should.  but maybe they have specific times they let the dog out, well they can communicate that.  A new neighbor might not realize there is a basic schedule.  If the dog owners communicate the schedule the new neighbors can perhaps modify their behavior, etc.

This isn't really different then something like a neighbor playing loud but within legal limits music in their backyard all summer long.  Sure they might be allowed to do it, and the other neighbors might not mind for whatever reason, but its still a legitimate concerns of some neighbors. 

Its always best to approach the situation calmly and in hopes of a compromise first, instead of aggressively off the bat.

If the new neighbors had approached the dog owners calmly and politely, and were still rebuffed and then went around the neighborhood calmly and politely with their petition, this whole thread wouldn't even exist. The new neighbors have the right to be concerned about the dog. The concerns might not ever come to happen, but its not wrong to have them and to address them. Its merely the way the new neighbors are going about it that is the problem.

If a neighbor asked me my dog's schedule I'd have to tell them "when they tell me they need to go." I would find the question odd, but not rude. Any request for me to modify when my dogs are out, would be very rude, in my opinion. It's not the same as loud music as that can be heard outside of the yard. This dog is in the yard doing nothing disruptive.

I do agree that being neighborly goes a long way, but honestly I think a request to modify what happens in my yard that does not affect anyone else is already a very unneighborly request. I think neighbors should live and let live unless something a neighbor is doing directly negatively affects them.

Sharnita

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #63 on: March 08, 2013, 04:11:32 PM »
If neighbor A requests that neighbor B keep their dog inside at a certain time, does that then open the door for neighbor B to counter with a request that neighbor A get therapy to deal with their fear of dogs?  That would normally seem like crossing the line but once the subject is approached and consessions asked what can be asked in return?

Isisnin

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #64 on: March 08, 2013, 05:11:47 PM »
I would never, ever, even for a moment knowingly consider buying a house within 5 blocks of a home with an invisible fence. I would be beside myself with anxiety if I bought one unknowingly. Why?  Because I have a huge fear of dogs and because I've known three people with invisible fences and all three have had "break outs" at some point...

To be fair, dogs often break out of totally visible fences. Even tethered animals can escape (our Boston terrier was particularly good at a little neck roll that immediately got her out of her collar). She was also good at digging holes surprisingly deep surprisingly quickly.

Very true.  After I got a dog, I was putting green wire fencing up to close an opening between my fence and my neighbors.  Another neighbor approached me and said I needed to put in "real" fencing as the green wire fencing wouldn't keep my dog in.  I said it was extra strong wire fencing and my dog wouldn't get out.  Neighbor insisted on "real fencing".  I still said no.

Neighbor kept at me for over a year.  I kept smiling and bean dipping. 8 1/2 yrs later, the green wire is still there and Rover never got out.

Neighbor and I get along fine.  She still likes to tell me what to do sometimes, but is far less insistent.  Politely standing my ground with her the 1st time, probably led to her understanding that my property is my property.

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #65 on: March 08, 2013, 06:58:05 PM »
Their yard, they have taken all precautions to keep the dog/neighborhood safe, so they do not have to tether.  In Pennsylvania, laws are being passed against tethering.  I would be watching though because these people do not sound stable and I would be worried they would hurt the dog.  Just because someone moves in that doesn't like dogs, the whole neighborhood does not have to change for them.  My neighbors and I all have dogs, none of them are tethered in our yards and usually we are out with them, but sometimes they might be outside for a few minutes by themselves and there is never a problem.  The only time they all go in is when the mailman comes because we have a new one and the dogs do go up to him, but only because the old one carried biscuits for the dogs and now they see mailman and think treat!

Calistoga

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #66 on: March 09, 2013, 11:43:26 AM »
If the dog were actually doing something obnoxious as opposed to staying in her own yard minding her own business, I'd be understanding. Our dog is awful about going in to the neighbors yards because of the layouts of the property- no fences and we all share a big stand of trees- so she's tied up when we aren't around to keep her out of trouble. But tying a dog up isn't par-for-the-course, it's what you do if your dog is ill behaved.

Maybe it's worth going over and talking to these people to find out WHY they think it's rude.

snowdragon

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #67 on: March 09, 2013, 12:52:23 PM »
Once they had information (such as the dogs training, its history of remaining in the yard, how the invisible fence works, etc) they should have discussed with the dog owners if a compromise could be come to - such as please don't leave the dog unattended in the yard when the school bus comes, or during a certain time frame when they run, or whatever their biggest issue was.

I'm afraid I can't agree with you at all. Unless the dog had already had a break out, there is no reason for the owners to compromise with you at all. Their dog is contained in its own yard. I'm sorry you suffer from such strong fears, but that is not for dog owners to address. It is your issue.


I also disagree. If your kids' bus comes at the same time that my dogs are having their morning exercise time outside (which is scheduled when it is because my DH and I wake up at a specific time and leave for work at a specific time), I'd have to tell you "I'm sorry, that won't be possible."

I also disagree. a fence is a large expense to take on because the neighbor has a problem with what I do in my yard it's their issue to deal with - not mine to either limit what my pet 9 and therefor I ) can do on my own property because someone doesn't like it. If someone came over and told me to fence in the yard or to chain up a dog who had never done anything to anyone, I'd refuse to engage the crazy and start worrying about what they might do.

At this point everyone in sight line of the two houses is watching out for Trixie. Trixie's family has been told about the petition, not by me, I know they have because Trixie's dad asked me about it.

I don't think anyone is up for asking these folks why they want Trixie chained up, but given the new neighbors behavior towards the rest of our properties, I'd say they feel that their kids should not have to worry about Trixie when they trespass. The new family has been here less than two weeks and the kids have been "Playing" in almost everyone's yard.  Everyone's except Trixie's, that is. The father has said he "didn't move here from the city for my kids to be restricted."
Also they are homeschooled, so there is no bus schedule to adhere to.

Trixie was a  full grown dog when she moved here - several years ago.  She's over 10 right now and very docile.

WilyNily, The new family didn't buy, they rented and moved in less than two weeks ago.  The landlord is already aware of some of the issues.


 

LeveeWoman

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #68 on: March 09, 2013, 12:59:07 PM »
Once they had information (such as the dogs training, its history of remaining in the yard, how the invisible fence works, etc) they should have discussed with the dog owners if a compromise could be come to - such as please don't leave the dog unattended in the yard when the school bus comes, or during a certain time frame when they run, or whatever their biggest issue was.

I'm afraid I can't agree with you at all. Unless the dog had already had a break out, there is no reason for the owners to compromise with you at all. Their dog is contained in its own yard. I'm sorry you suffer from such strong fears, but that is not for dog owners to address. It is your issue.


I also disagree. If your kids' bus comes at the same time that my dogs are having their morning exercise time outside (which is scheduled when it is because my DH and I wake up at a specific time and leave for work at a specific time), I'd have to tell you "I'm sorry, that won't be possible."

I also disagree. a fence is a large expense to take on because the neighbor has a problem with what I do in my yard it's their issue to deal with - not mine to either limit what my pet 9 and therefor I ) can do on my own property because someone doesn't like it. If someone came over and told me to fence in the yard or to chain up a dog who had never done anything to anyone, I'd refuse to engage the crazy and start worrying about what they might do.

At this point everyone in sight line of the two houses is watching out for Trixie. Trixie's family has been told about the petition, not by me, I know they have because Trixie's dad asked me about it.

I don't think anyone is up for asking these folks why they want Trixie chained up, but given the new neighbors behavior towards the rest of our properties, I'd say they feel that their kids should not have to worry about Trixie when they trespass. The new family has been here less than two weeks and the kids have been "Playing" in almost everyone's yard.  Everyone's except Trixie's, that is. The father has said he "didn't move here from the city for my kids to be restricted."
Also they are homeschooled, so there is no bus schedule to adhere to.

Trixie was a  full grown dog when she moved here - several years ago.  She's over 10 right now and very docile.

WilyNily, The new family didn't buy, they rented and moved in less than two weeks ago.  The landlord is already aware of some of the issues.

This is not about a dog. This is about people with absolutely no clue about boundaries.

Calistoga

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #69 on: March 09, 2013, 01:04:11 PM »
Quote
The father has said he "didn't move here from the city for my kids to be restricted."

So he moved to the suburbs because he thought it would allow his children to wander aimlessly around the neighborhood?

Trixies owners should let him know that they didn't move there for their dog to be restricted.

snowdragon

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #70 on: March 09, 2013, 01:07:47 PM »
Once they had information (such as the dogs training, its history of remaining in the yard, how the invisible fence works, etc) they should have discussed with the dog owners if a compromise could be come to - such as please don't leave the dog unattended in the yard when the school bus comes, or during a certain time frame when they run, or whatever their biggest issue was.

I'm afraid I can't agree with you at all. Unless the dog had already had a break out, there is no reason for the owners to compromise with you at all. Their dog is contained in its own yard. I'm sorry you suffer from such strong fears, but that is not for dog owners to address. It is your issue.


I also disagree. If your kids' bus comes at the same time that my dogs are having their morning exercise time outside (which is scheduled when it is because my DH and I wake up at a specific time and leave for work at a specific time), I'd have to tell you "I'm sorry, that won't be possible."

I also disagree. a fence is a large expense to take on because the neighbor has a problem with what I do in my yard it's their issue to deal with - not mine to either limit what my pet 9 and therefor I ) can do on my own property because someone doesn't like it. If someone came over and told me to fence in the yard or to chain up a dog who had never done anything to anyone, I'd refuse to engage the crazy and start worrying about what they might do.

At this point everyone in sight line of the two houses is watching out for Trixie. Trixie's family has been told about the petition, not by me, I know they have because Trixie's dad asked me about it.

I don't think anyone is up for asking these folks why they want Trixie chained up, but given the new neighbors behavior towards the rest of our properties, I'd say they feel that their kids should not have to worry about Trixie when they trespass. The new family has been here less than two weeks and the kids have been "Playing" in almost everyone's yard.  Everyone's except Trixie's, that is. The father has said he "didn't move here from the city for my kids to be restricted."
Also they are homeschooled, so there is no bus schedule to adhere to.

Trixie was a  full grown dog when she moved here - several years ago.  She's over 10 right now and very docile.

WilyNily, The new family didn't buy, they rented and moved in less than two weeks ago.  The landlord is already aware of some of the issues.

This is not about a dog. This is about people with absolutely no clue about boundaries.

Yeah, I am beginning to think so too, at first I thought they were like this because they are new to the neighborhood and not sure of the culture. But the bolded conversation happened earlier today - and it really made me feel like we are in for it with this family. :(

Calistoga

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #71 on: March 09, 2013, 01:10:23 PM »
I'm curious, do you know where the family moved from? I can't think of anywhere in the U.S where you'd be expected to let kids run around in your yard, but there are countries where neighborhoods are much more open and yards aren't really personal space.

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #72 on: March 09, 2013, 01:16:17 PM »
Yeah, the fact that these kids are going in and out of whatever yard they want puts a completely different face on things.

My back yard, where I allow my dogs out, is completely fenced.  Both to keep my dogs in and other people out...no one but Anthony and I (and guests we invite) has any right or reason to be on our property.  My front yard, however, is open, and unfortunately that seems to make people think I WANT them to come into my front yard.  People have let their dogs mess on my lawn and not cleaned it up.  Last summer I recall even posting here about a kid living up the street who used my lawn to turn her bike around.  People have come right up my front lawn to my side gate to see my dogs.  I'm thinking that as much as I don't want the expense and trouble of it, I may have to have a fence put around my front yard as well, because no matter what I say to people (Please don't let your dog mess on my lawn, or at least clean up after it, please don't roll your bike up onto my lawn, it's leaving tracks on the grass, etc) people still seem to think that because there is no physical barrier there, it's their god-given right to come on to my property.  My neighbours (the ones who tore down the fence without telling me, some of you might remember that saga) have even gone so far as to tell me I have to get rid of my dogs because they don't like dogs.  They've even threatened to call Bylaw/animal control on me.  I tell them to go ahead; I'm not breaking any laws.  All my pets (including both indoor cats) are licensed and registered with the city and I'm within acceptable numbers (numbers within city limits are limited to 3 dogs and 6 cats.  I have 3 dogs and 2 cats).  I think I frustrate them because I won't be intimidated.

It sounds like the issue here has gone far beyond invisible fences or the presence of dogs.  I hate to say it, but brace yourself, Snowdragon.  If the parents of these kids are so entitled that they think their children should be able to play in any and every yard in the neighbourhood, trouble with this family may be just beginning.
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Roe

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #73 on: March 09, 2013, 02:26:29 PM »
If the children play in your yard and they end up getting hurt, well, this seems like the type of family that will blame the homeowner. 

rose red

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Re: Off Leash in your own yard ...rude?
« Reply #74 on: March 09, 2013, 02:46:01 PM »
Well, this has taken an unexpected turn.  I would start researching ways to keep them off your property right now.  Normally, I wouldn't care if people cross my lawn or anything like that, but this family sound like trouble.