Author Topic: How to say, "I refuse to work with her" politely.  (Read 8183 times)

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cross_patch

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Re: How to say, "I refuse to work with her" politely.
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2013, 06:31:25 AM »
I'm confused, too. When I was in graduate school, we always provided copies of our presentation materials (slides, research papers, etc) or at the very least a link so the material can be downloaded. As long as classmates properly cited the research, it didn't really matter.

  And I have never had to before this class. It's not something I am comfortable with. I've had three other folks mention it to me as being "odd" so it may just be the culture of your college was different.  But, We have to submit them electronically at the end of the semester,during the time scheduled for our exam, so she's asking for them before we even turn them in properly. And she is asking for complete projects.   

I'm confused; by "use it with her class" is she talking about being a teacher in the future? Is this the same woman in the special snowflakes thread/the mom who wanted everyone to help her with schoolwork?

  Not the same woman, different class. She's already a teacher, but wants everyone's work as a resource, so she would get 14 people's work and the lesson plan's to go with it.

I am both pursuing a masters and work in academia, and this is in no way odd in my experience - what would be odd is for a student to refuse to provide copies of their work to all students. As long as it is cited properly, I really see no issue. Generally it is considered a positive thing to have your work thought of so highly that someone would like to use your work in another setting.

Zizi-K

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Re: How to say, "I refuse to work with her" politely.
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2013, 01:27:16 PM »
I'm confused, too. When I was in graduate school, we always provided copies of our presentation materials (slides, research papers, etc) or at the very least a link so the material can be downloaded. As long as classmates properly cited the research, it didn't really matter.

  And I have never had to before this class. It's not something I am comfortable with. I've had three other folks mention it to me as being "odd" so it may just be the culture of your college was different.  But, We have to submit them electronically at the end of the semester,during the time scheduled for our exam, so she's asking for them before we even turn them in properly. And she is asking for complete projects.   

I'm confused; by "use it with her class" is she talking about being a teacher in the future? Is this the same woman in the special snowflakes thread/the mom who wanted everyone to help her with schoolwork?

  Not the same woman, different class. She's already a teacher, but wants everyone's work as a resource, so she would get 14 people's work and the lesson plan's to go with it.

I am both pursuing a masters and work in academia, and this is in no way odd in my experience - what would be odd is for a student to refuse to provide copies of their work to all students. As long as it is cited properly, I really see no issue. Generally it is considered a positive thing to have your work thought of so highly that someone would like to use your work in another setting.

Perhaps the differences are disciplinary, but I'm confused as to how the work would be "used" in another setting. I teach in a professional degree setting, and my students have to write papers and give presentations, and it would be highly irregular of them to re-use that work (of their own, not to mention of another student's) in another class.

BeagleMommy

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Re: How to say, "I refuse to work with her" politely.
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2013, 01:51:58 PM »
Usually, in lesson plan sharing it is well known that lesson plans/materials will be shared.  What I got from the OP was that this student was alone in demanding she be given everyone's materials.  OP, is this the case?  If that's the case, just because she demands doesn't mean she gets.

The "I paid for this class" statement is meant to be guilt inducing.  I hear this from students all the time when classes aren't going the way they think they should be going.  Yes, you paid for the course.  So did everyone else.  It never works with the administration.

OP, when/if she demands copies of your materials you can always use "I'm sorry that just won't be possible".

Moray

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Re: How to say, "I refuse to work with her" politely.
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2013, 01:56:09 PM »
I'm confused, too. When I was in graduate school, we always provided copies of our presentation materials (slides, research papers, etc) or at the very least a link so the material can be downloaded. As long as classmates properly cited the research, it didn't really matter.

  And I have never had to before this class. It's not something I am comfortable with. I've had three other folks mention it to me as being "odd" so it may just be the culture of your college was different.  But, We have to submit them electronically at the end of the semester,during the time scheduled for our exam, so she's asking for them before we even turn them in properly. And she is asking for complete projects.   

I'm confused; by "use it with her class" is she talking about being a teacher in the future? Is this the same woman in the special snowflakes thread/the mom who wanted everyone to help her with schoolwork?

  Not the same woman, different class. She's already a teacher, but wants everyone's work as a resource, so she would get 14 people's work and the lesson plan's to go with it.

I am both pursuing a masters and work in academia, and this is in no way odd in my experience - what would be odd is for a student to refuse to provide copies of their work to all students. As long as it is cited properly, I really see no issue. Generally it is considered a positive thing to have your work thought of so highly that someone would like to use your work in another setting.

Perhaps the differences are disciplinary, but I'm confused as to how the work would be "used" in another setting. I teach in a professional degree setting, and my students have to write papers and give presentations, and it would be highly irregular of them to re-use that work (of their own, not to mention of another student's) in another class.

The student in question isn't re-using it in another class she's taking, but using them as teaching materials in classes she teaches. Presumably with appropriate credit given.
Utah

goddessofpeep

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Re: How to say, "I refuse to work with her" politely.
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2013, 04:50:31 PM »
I recently read an article about a teacher who got fired for selling her lesson plans online.  She was making enough money at it that the school thought they should be getting the proceeds from it, despite the fact that she was making up her lesson plans exclusively at home.  Apparently there is a huge market for lesson plans online, and a teacher who is good at creating them can make almost as much or more selling his/her lesson plans as she/he is paid by the school for teaching.  It's not uncommon for teachers in the know to supplement their incomes by selling their lesson plans.

Lesson plans are apparently very valuable, and I think the OP is justified in feeling a bit used.  I had no idea there was a market for lesson plans, but there is and it's thriving.  The lady in question may be 100% honest and just using the lesson plans in her classrooms and giving full credit, but I personally wouldn't want something *I* for hours on to be freely distributed to everyone and their brother, particularly something that could be sold by a less than honest person.  I don't think it's unreasonable for the person who put in the time and did the work to say how their work gets used, and who has access to it.

Here's an article about a teacher who created a site for selling lesson plans, and has made quite a pretty penny doing it:
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/02/14184513-georgia-teacher-rakes-in-1-million-by-selling-lesson-plans-to-teachers?lite


Zizi-K

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Re: How to say, "I refuse to work with her" politely.
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2013, 05:08:20 PM »
I'm confused, too. When I was in graduate school, we always provided copies of our presentation materials (slides, research papers, etc) or at the very least a link so the material can be downloaded. As long as classmates properly cited the research, it didn't really matter.

  And I have never had to before this class. It's not something I am comfortable with. I've had three other folks mention it to me as being "odd" so it may just be the culture of your college was different.  But, We have to submit them electronically at the end of the semester,during the time scheduled for our exam, so she's asking for them before we even turn them in properly. And she is asking for complete projects.   

I'm confused; by "use it with her class" is she talking about being a teacher in the future? Is this the same woman in the special snowflakes thread/the mom who wanted everyone to help her with schoolwork?

  Not the same woman, different class. She's already a teacher, but wants everyone's work as a resource, so she would get 14 people's work and the lesson plan's to go with it.

I am both pursuing a masters and work in academia, and this is in no way odd in my experience - what would be odd is for a student to refuse to provide copies of their work to all students. As long as it is cited properly, I really see no issue. Generally it is considered a positive thing to have your work thought of so highly that someone would like to use your work in another setting.

Perhaps the differences are disciplinary, but I'm confused as to how the work would be "used" in another setting. I teach in a professional degree setting, and my students have to write papers and give presentations, and it would be highly irregular of them to re-use that work (of their own, not to mention of another student's) in another class.

The student in question isn't re-using it in another class she's taking, but using them as teaching materials in classes she teaches. Presumably with appropriate credit given.

Hmmm, that's interesting. In academia, one professor might share their syllabus with another, but it's not as if anyone is about to hand over lectures, powerpoint presentations, and other work intensive things like that. When I read the OP, for some reason I thought these were craftier projects, but now I see that they might be making worksheets or presentations.

Since everyone is presenting their work to the rest of the class, the gimme-student IS benefiting: she can recreate items or use certain ideas as much as she likes. Unless it was make explicit at the beginning of the class that these materials would be shared, giving students an opportunity to drop the class, then I still think the OP is perfectly within her rights not to want to give this material away. If they are all teachers, taking a class on producing lesson plans and the materials that go with them, then these are indeed valuable. It doesn't matter that it was produced in a class setting. Could this woman demand materials from a fellow teacher at her school? I think not.

The more difficult stand would be to insist on not working with her. I would go ahead and work with this person, just making sure that the work was being done evenly, and I would just accept that she would have access to a collaboratively-produced project. It sounds like the groups change all the time, so it's one week of working with someone. Not the end of the world.

Lynn2000

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Re: How to say, "I refuse to work with her" politely.
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2013, 05:25:00 PM »
I think OP should go to the dean and clarify the school's guidelines on if students are required to share copies of their projects.

If I were the OP, I might speak with the professor before hand and tell her prefers to not work with her.  But if the professor goes ahead and partners them up, I don't see a way to refuse without making the professor mad. The other student is not doing anything the professor sees as wrong.

I think this is where I stand. The various clarifications about how common lesson-plan-sharing is have helped me a lot. Still, I think it's reasonable that the OP doesn't want to share. The first thing I would do is to check the course materials and see if, by sticking with the course, the OP has implicitly agreed to share materials with the other students--like if there's a disclaimer to this effect somewhere. If yes, then I don't think the OP has much recourse.

If no, the next thing I would do is talk to the professor and request that my materials not be shared with this person (or anyone), and that I not be assigned to work with her. Maybe, I would have to work with her on this one project and thus share materials about it with her anyway; but, if the professor refused to keep my other work private, I would next check the rules for the department and college, and move up to the next level of administration if they were being violated.

Basically, in pure etiquette terms I think the OP is fine to tell this woman no and to ask the professor not to share her work, either; but first I think the OP needs to make sure that she hasn't already "agreed" to share, just by taking the class or attending this college.
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AnnaJ

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Re: How to say, "I refuse to work with her" politely.
« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2013, 06:07:47 PM »
I'm confused, too. When I was in graduate school, we always provided copies of our presentation materials (slides, research papers, etc) or at the very least a link so the material can be downloaded. As long as classmates properly cited the research, it didn't really matter.

  And I have never had to before this class. It's not something I am comfortable with. I've had three other folks mention it to me as being "odd" so it may just be the culture of your college was different.  But, We have to submit them electronically at the end of the semester,during the time scheduled for our exam, so she's asking for them before we even turn them in properly. And she is asking for complete projects.   

I'm confused; by "use it with her class" is she talking about being a teacher in the future? Is this the same woman in the special snowflakes thread/the mom who wanted everyone to help her with schoolwork?

  Not the same woman, different class. She's already a teacher, but wants everyone's work as a resource, so she would get 14 people's work and the lesson plan's to go with it.

I am both pursuing a masters and work in academia, and this is in no way odd in my experience - what would be odd is for a student to refuse to provide copies of their work to all students. As long as it is cited properly, I really see no issue. Generally it is considered a positive thing to have your work thought of so highly that someone would like to use your work in another setting.

Perhaps the differences are disciplinary, but I'm confused as to how the work would be "used" in another setting. I teach in a professional degree setting, and my students have to write papers and give presentations, and it would be highly irregular of them to re-use that work (of their own, not to mention of another student's) in another class.

The student in question isn't re-using it in another class she's taking, but using them as teaching materials in classes she teaches. Presumably with appropriate credit given.

Hmmm, that's interesting. In academia, one professor might share their syllabus with another, but it's not as if anyone is about to hand over lectures, powerpoint presentations, and other work intensive things like that. When I read the OP, for some reason I thought these were craftier projects, but now I see that they might be making worksheets or presentations.

Since everyone is presenting their work to the rest of the class, the gimme-student IS benefiting: she can recreate items or use certain ideas as much as she likes. Unless it was make explicit at the beginning of the class that these materials would be shared, giving students an opportunity to drop the class, then I still think the OP is perfectly within her rights not to want to give this material away. If they are all teachers, taking a class on producing lesson plans and the materials that go with them, then these are indeed valuable. It doesn't matter that it was produced in a class setting. Could this woman demand materials from a fellow teacher at her school? I think not.

The more difficult stand would be to insist on not working with her. I would go ahead and work with this person, just making sure that the work was being done evenly, and I would just accept that she would have access to a collaboratively-produced project. It sounds like the groups change all the time, so it's one week of working with someone. Not the end of the world.

Maybe it depends on the discipline - my colleagues and I are always sharing PowerPoints, LMS content, syllabi, info about sources; this is at a college level, and similar sharing happened in grad school so I'm surprised to hear people say it's unusual.  I'm currently taking some classes related to online teaching and we are all expected to share our work - so, pretty normal to me.

 

Softly Spoken

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Re: How to say, "I refuse to work with her" politely.
« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2013, 06:27:16 PM »
The impression I got from the wording of the original post was that the classmate in question

1) was the only one asking everyone else for copies of their work. If she is the only one doing it and it isn't just a natural exchange between every member of the class or member of the group, then how can it be part of class or school policy?

2) was demanding the copies in an entitled way. That would not be acceptable even if giving copies of work to each other were standard practice. If you want something you ask nicely for it. Period. A favor, even one that is "coerced"/standard procedure, is still a benefit via another person and should be appreciated. That this classmate acts as if other people's work is her deity given right is irksome beyond belief. Not acknowledging that making copies (if the assignment is large enough) in addition to the assigned work may be difficult and inconvenient to some puts this person in SS territory.

3) was demanding copies period. Unless expressly stated in the program/syllabus etc., the only material a student is entitled to when they take a course is whatever the teacher gives them. Your fellow students can be valuable resources, but they are not to be abused and you should reciprocate. As mentioned before, the most annoying thing to me is the fact that this student wants to take but has no desire to give. She is not anxious to give her own hard work to others, or encourage everyone to share everything with each other - she only cares about herself and she is showing it by asking for what she wants in a very selfish way. PPs have talked about "share/don't share" customs of a given class but I don't see this as sharing: only taking.

I POD previous suggestions to take up this matter with you teacher and escalate if necessary. Even if what she is doing is technically acceptable, she is going about it in the wrong way and her rude demands should not be tolerated.
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snowdragon

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Re: How to say, "I refuse to work with her" politely.
« Reply #39 on: March 13, 2013, 07:41:48 PM »
She will use these in her classes that she teaches- although I am not sure how she could give credit to the person who created the lesson in a classroom setting. 

The exception to the above is my PowerPoint for the chapter of the book,  I had to present. She wants to have a copy of my presentation with all the hyperlinks, graphics and sounds - and copy and past the text for her chapter into it. She stated this in so many words.

This is not policy for this class. I have read the syllabus and course materials several times, nothing is mentioned.

It is not a class of just teachers, but about 60/30/10  museum studies folks/teachers getting their Masters/and others. Since not everyone is a teacher, even if this "sharing" did occur less than a third of the class would benefit in anyway. The rest would be receiving nothing of value to them, and giving a LOT of work and value to the teachers.

It is not "just" the lesson plans she wants, but all materials to go with it.  PowerPoints, worksheets, recordings, for the kid who did a mapping project with GIS she wanted the downloaded files to plug into the maps, ect.

She is the only one asking and only for herself. The even the rest of the teachers-masters-candidates- are appalled at her.

In order to give her all the materials that went with my last project I would need to provide her with 2 dvd's worth of materials or one dvd and about 30 sheets of printouts.  This is expensive, even just for one person to get all the projects.

She has not offered to repay anyone for these expenses or even to give anyone her work.

She does not limit these "requests" to lesson plans or PowerPoints but any material that is produced for this class. Project Proposals, Grant Proposals, research papers, ect. Anything, if it was made for the class - she feels she has a right to it.

 There are at least 4 other people who do not want to work with her - I know this because we all sit at the same table together and we're all tired of her demands.  None of us are making any move towards making the copies she wants.  I know this because she makes some sort of comment about it each class meeting. "Did you bring...?" or "did you remember to copy...?" type comments.  The answers are always along the lines of "No" or "That's not going to happen"


AnnaJ

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Re: How to say, "I refuse to work with her" politely.
« Reply #40 on: March 13, 2013, 08:46:01 PM »
Given the last update, I can see why you and the other students have a problem with her - expecting other students to spend money to provide copies is only reasonable if everyone agreed on it at the beginning of class. 

If she paid for the copying I wouldn't have an issue with it myself, but it sounds like she's crossed some boundaries in class and shouldn't be surprised if other students are not willing to let her have copies.

cross_patch

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Re: How to say, "I refuse to work with her" politely.
« Reply #41 on: March 13, 2013, 09:24:11 PM »
I'm confused, too. When I was in graduate school, we always provided copies of our presentation materials (slides, research papers, etc) or at the very least a link so the material can be downloaded. As long as classmates properly cited the research, it didn't really matter.

  And I have never had to before this class. It's not something I am comfortable with. I've had three other folks mention it to me as being "odd" so it may just be the culture of your college was different.  But, We have to submit them electronically at the end of the semester,during the time scheduled for our exam, so she's asking for them before we even turn them in properly. And she is asking for complete projects.   

I'm confused; by "use it with her class" is she talking about being a teacher in the future? Is this the same woman in the special snowflakes thread/the mom who wanted everyone to help her with schoolwork?

  Not the same woman, different class. She's already a teacher, but wants everyone's work as a resource, so she would get 14 people's work and the lesson plan's to go with it.

I am both pursuing a masters and work in academia, and this is in no way odd in my experience - what would be odd is for a student to refuse to provide copies of their work to all students. As long as it is cited properly, I really see no issue. Generally it is considered a positive thing to have your work thought of so highly that someone would like to use your work in another setting.

Perhaps the differences are disciplinary, but I'm confused as to how the work would be "used" in another setting. I teach in a professional degree setting, and my students have to write papers and give presentations, and it would be highly irregular of them to re-use that work (of their own, not to mention of another student's) in another class.

The student in question isn't re-using it in another class she's taking, but using them as teaching materials in classes she teaches. Presumably with appropriate credit given.

Hmmm, that's interesting. In academia, one professor might share their syllabus with another, but it's not as if anyone is about to hand over lectures, powerpoint presentations, and other work intensive things like that. When I read the OP, for some reason I thought these were craftier projects, but now I see that they might be making worksheets or presentations.

Since everyone is presenting their work to the rest of the class, the gimme-student IS benefiting: she can recreate items or use certain ideas as much as she likes. Unless it was make explicit at the beginning of the class that these materials would be shared, giving students an opportunity to drop the class, then I still think the OP is perfectly within her rights not to want to give this material away. If they are all teachers, taking a class on producing lesson plans and the materials that go with them, then these are indeed valuable. It doesn't matter that it was produced in a class setting. Could this woman demand materials from a fellow teacher at her school? I think not.

The more difficult stand would be to insist on not working with her. I would go ahead and work with this person, just making sure that the work was being done evenly, and I would just accept that she would have access to a collaboratively-produced project. It sounds like the groups change all the time, so it's one week of working with someone. Not the end of the world.

Maybe it depends on the discipline - my colleagues and I are always sharing PowerPoints, LMS content, syllabi, info about sources; this is at a college level, and similar sharing happened in grad school so I'm surprised to hear people say it's unusual.  I'm currently taking some classes related to online teaching and we are all expected to share our work - so, pretty normal to me.

Me too- this is exactly how it plays out in my environment.

violinp

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Re: How to say, "I refuse to work with her" politely.
« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2013, 01:44:47 AM »
She will use these in her classes that she teaches- although I am not sure how she could give credit to the person who created the lesson in a classroom setting. 

The exception to the above is my PowerPoint for the chapter of the book,  I had to present. She wants to have a copy of my presentation with all the hyperlinks, graphics and sounds - and copy and past the text for her chapter into it. She stated this in so many words.

This is not policy for this class. I have read the syllabus and course materials several times, nothing is mentioned.

It is not a class of just teachers, but about 60/30/10  museum studies folks/teachers getting their Masters/and others. Since not everyone is a teacher, even if this "sharing" did occur less than a third of the class would benefit in anyway. The rest would be receiving nothing of value to them, and giving a LOT of work and value to the teachers.

It is not "just" the lesson plans she wants, but all materials to go with it.  PowerPoints, worksheets, recordings, for the kid who did a mapping project with GIS she wanted the downloaded files to plug into the maps, ect.

She is the only one asking and only for herself. The even the rest of the teachers-masters-candidates- are appalled at her.

In order to give her all the materials that went with my last project I would need to provide her with 2 dvd's worth of materials or one dvd and about 30 sheets of printouts.  This is expensive, even just for one person to get all the projects.

She has not offered to repay anyone for these expenses or even to give anyone her work.

She does not limit these "requests" to lesson plans or PowerPoints but any material that is produced for this class. Project Proposals, Grant Proposals, research papers, ect. Anything, if it was made for the class - she feels she has a right to it.

 There are at least 4 other people who do not want to work with her - I know this because we all sit at the same table together and we're all tired of her demands.  None of us are making any move towards making the copies she wants.  I know this because she makes some sort of comment about it each class meeting. "Did you bring...?" or "did you remember to copy...?" type comments.  The answers are always along the lines of "No" or "That's not going to happen"

Great googly moogly.  :o She sounds like a nightmare.
"It takes a great deal of courage to stand up to your enemies, but even more to stand up to your friends" - Harry Potter


Amara

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Re: How to say, "I refuse to work with her" politely.
« Reply #43 on: March 14, 2013, 01:49:21 AM »
I still say to go to the dean. Both she and the professor way out of line.

Lorelei_Evil

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Re: How to say, "I refuse to work with her" politely.
« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2013, 08:27:37 AM »
POD.  She seems to be treating this like she's entitled to your work product merely because she paid tuition for the course.    Go to the dean.