Is Blood really thicker than water?

[Sterling]

Maybe people should think about not talking badly about her mother in front of her since it is obvious it upsets her.

Fact is just because you think a person is horrible and you shouldn't have to stand by them doesn't mean that other family members have to comply to your choice.  Lots of people point out my nephew's negative traits and I have made it known that they can think all they want about him but they better not comment in front of me because I will always stand beside him.  Now these are typically just personality traits other people don't like.  He has never hurt anyone or broken any major laws (though he seems to collect speeding tickets for fun.)  But when people point out that he can be lazy I remind them that I love him and they need to talk about something else while I'm there.

[Auntie Mame]

  family will always be there for you so you should always be there for them.

This is simply not true for a lot of people.  My family has NOT always been there for me, in fact, they rarely are.  So I feel no obligation to go out of my way to do anything for them that I wouldn't do for others.

If I want to hang out with judgemental bullies who instead of seeing who I am hold me accountable for every single thing I've done my entire life and still pretend I am the exact same person I was at 16 years old instead of a mature adult.  I will hang out with my family.

I want to hang out with people who love and accept me for who I am and support me.  I will hang out with my friends.

[Judah]

This is really going to depend on the person. For me, family will always come first. Always.  That doesn't mean that I don't see my family members' faults, but we all have faults and no one loves me the way my family does. No one understands me the way my family does. No one has been there for me the way my family has. I have some friends who are like family, but those are rare.

[Piratelvr1121]

  family will always be there for you so you should always be there for them.

This is simply not true for a lot of people.  My family has NOT always been there for me, in fact, they rarely are.  So I feel no obligation to go out of my way to do anything for them that I wouldn't do for others.

If I want to hang out with judgemental bullies who instead of seeing who I am hold me accountable for every single thing I've done my entire life and still pretend I am the exact same person I was at 16 years old instead of a mature adult.  I will hang out with my family.

I want to hang out with people who love and accept me for who I am and support me.  I will hang out with my friends.

Pod.  Me too.  I've always been a believer that friends are the family we choose.  I was also lucky enough to marry into a wonderful family and was made to feel completely at home and welcomed by them.   Loving someone doesn't always mean blowing sunshine up their rear end but it also doesn't mean putting them down at every opportunity or trying to change them into someone you can love.

[Mal]

This is really going to depend on the person. For me, family will always come first. Always.  That doesn't mean that I don't see my family members' faults, but we all have faults and no one loves me the way my family does. No one understands me the way my family does. No one has been there for me the way my family has. I have some friends who are like family, but those are rare.

With my immediate family, I feel exactly the same way I'm glad there's this perspective here as well.

[Virg]

As a direct answer to your question, oceanus, the answer is no.  That is to say, how people interact with their family is based on their own experiences (good or bad), and so it's not universally true.  There are those who would consider family paramount, and there are those who wouldn't spit on family if they were on fire, and so any rule that implies that either view is always right or always wrong will be inaccurate.

As to how to deal with someone who insists that such a rule must be always right or always wrong, that too depends on the person and the relationship so no single answer works in all cases.  Whether bean-dipping someone or arguing/discussing is better is to be decided on a case by case basis.  You yourself presented to scenarios that IMHO could be handled differently.  In the first case, simple avoidance is rational because someone who wants you to stand behind a relative who did something heinous just because they're related to you isn't likely to be willing to have a rational discussion about it.  On the other hand, having lunch with a relative who responds to your comment with something that could trigger discussion might be a place where you'd want to continue (although you weren't rude to bean-dip her like you did if you didn't want to continue).

Virg

[miranova]

  family will always be there for you so you should always be there for them.

This is simply not true for a lot of people.  My family has NOT always been there for me, in fact, they rarely are.  So I feel no obligation to go out of my way to do anything for them that I wouldn't do for others.

If I want to hang out with judgemental bullies who instead of seeing who I am hold me accountable for every single thing I've done my entire life and still pretend I am the exact same person I was at 16 years old instead of a mature adult.  I will hang out with my family.

Wow I felt like I was reading something I wrote there.  One of my sister's favorite phrases is that she did everything right in life while I and our other sister made all the mistakes.  It still upsets her that I landed on my feet.  She landed on her feet as well, but apparently seems to think that I don't deserve anything that I have because of my screwups.  She also seems to think that everything bad that happened to her was in NO WAY related to any decisions she made.  Yes, her first husband left her, yes he doesn't pay child support which is awful, but she DID pick him against several objections that she didn't want to listen to.  He was lazy and unambitious the day they met, 5 years before they ever got married.  That choice in partner in and of itself could be seen as a "mistake" but she will never see it that way.  I don't sink to her level and have never actually mentioned that hey, maybe the total lack of any ambition whatsoever should have been a clue that he wouldn't support future children.  I don't want to point that out, because then I'd be just like her.  But when I get "what did you expect?" from her for every bad thing that's ever happened to me, it's hard not to retaliate..

On the other hand, my "mistakes" were more easy to judge, belittle, and criticize so anything I went through as a result was my fault anyway and I deserved it.  These mistakes are now over a decade ago when I was in my early 20's, and she still seems completely unwilling or unable to realize that GASP!  I've grown up.  I'm not the same person.  But I've been cast in her play of life in a certain role, and will never escape it, no matter what I actually do and who I actually am. 

[Winterlight]

This is really going to depend on the person. For me, family will always come first. Always.  That doesn't mean that I don't see my family members' faults, but we all have faults and no one loves me the way my family does. No one understands me the way my family does. No one has been there for me the way my family has. I have some friends who are like family, but those are rare.

Agreed.

[Tea Drinker]

With regard to Oceanus's original post, maybe this was the cousin's way of saying "I've changed my mind about that." She used to defend her relatives when she wouldn't defend someone else who did/said the same things, but as the OP says, that was a long time ago.

My own feeling is that relatives start with a bit of an advantage as far as affection and loyalty, but it's only a foundation: if people don't build on that, they aren't going to be close later, and they aren't going to be able to depend on each other that way. I know not everyone feels the way I do: that's probably true on every subject, though.

[oceanus]

With regard to Oceanus's original post, maybe this was the cousin's way of saying "I've changed my mind about that."

Very good point!  I hadn't considered that.  Maybe if I had explored the issue, she would have said that.  But........meh......still a potential 'hot button', so I decided to play it safe by bean dipping. 

[MOM21SON]

My own feeling is that relatives start with a bit of an advantage as far as affection and loyalty, but it's only a foundation: if people don't build on that, they aren't going to be close later, and they aren't going to be able to depend on each other that way. I know not everyone feels the way I do: that's probably true on every subject, though.

This was a great way to put my feelings.  Thank you. 

[Softly Spoken]

My own feeling is that relatives start with a bit of an advantage as far as affection and loyalty, but it's only a foundation: if people don't build on that, they aren't going to be close later, and they aren't going to be able to depend on each other that way. I know not everyone feels the way I do: that's probably true on every subject, though.

This was a great way to put my feelings.  Thank you.

Excellent way of describing it.

Basically I think blood can get "thicker" or "thinner" depending on how any given familial relationship progresses. My brothers and I are close and very loyal to each other. I am not as close to my father. I have extended family that are virtually strangers to me - I do not feel I owe them anything just because we happen have a last name or genetic material in common.

I was quite amused/exasperated to see my older brother E wade through the river in Egypt and come out the other side in regards to our brother H. I warned E from day one that H was taking advantage of him, but E would shrug and say "he's my brother." Now, he has reached his limit and beyond and says "He's my brother and I love him but he has to go." I am thrilled to hear E talking Bed/Made/Lie instead of coming up with reasons why he should be helping H. E was so concerned about being a loyal brother that he failed to realize how lousy H was being at it.

Blood is sometimes thicker...and it should flow both ways!

[Judah]

Maybe people should think about not talking badly about her mother in front of her since it is obvious it upsets her.

Fact is just because you think a person is horrible and you shouldn't have to stand by them doesn't mean that other family members have to comply to your choice.  Lots of people point out my nephew's negative traits and I have made it known that they can think all they want about him but they better not comment in front of me because I will always stand beside him.  Now these are typically just personality traits other people don't like.  He has never hurt anyone or broken any major laws (though he seems to collect speeding tickets for fun.)  But when people point out that he can be lazy I remind them that I love him and they need to talk about something else while I'm there.

Agreed. I'm not blind to my mother's faults, but I'm certainly not going to let her be criticized by anyone and I'm surprised anyone would think that would be okay.

[Twik]

Water density 1.0 mg/mL at standard STP.

Blood density 1.06 mg/mL at standard STP.

The saying is confirmed as accurate.

[afbluebelle]

Water density 1.0 mg/mL at standard STP.

Blood density 1.06 mg/mL at standard STP.

The saying is confirmed as accurate.

That isn't even counting in the clotting factor!