Uncomfortable hospitality (updated throughout/most recent page 8)

[gramma dishes]

...   Halfway through the event we were approached by hubby's sister. She had a remaining balance to pay to the hall by the end of the night. She didn't have it and was in a panic. Hubby wrote a cheque to the hall on our line of credit to avoid any scenes during the party. I was absolutely against it but understood why he felt he had to do it.  We never saw a dime of that money back and knew we never would.  ...

Ahhh ... so that family has decided that it can be totally irresponsible with money and no worries!!  The Bank of Tiggnduff will take care of everything!

It's sad that you set a precedent with the other fiasco, but I think you and your husband need to make VERY clear that you are not going to subsidize any parties that you don't plan yourself.  Let FIL go ahead and charge this extravaganza against his credit cards (if he can) and maybe if he has to suffer the consequences he'll learn not to do it again.  But I'm pretty sure he's assuming that 'someone' will bail him out if things get too overboard.  Gee ... I wonder who he might have in mind to do that?

[bah12]

...   Halfway through the event we were approached by hubby's sister. She had a remaining balance to pay to the hall by the end of the night. She didn't have it and was in a panic. Hubby wrote a cheque to the hall on our line of credit to avoid any scenes during the party. I was absolutely against it but understood why he felt he had to do it.  We never saw a dime of that money back and knew we never would.  ...

Ahhh ... so that family has decided that it can be totally irresponsible with money and no worries!!  The Bank of Tiggnduff will take care of everything!

It's sad that you set a precedent with the other fiasco, but I think you and your husband need to make VERY clear that you are not going to subsidize any parties that you don't plan yourself.  Let FIL go ahead and charge this extravaganza against his credit cards (if he can) and maybe if he has to suffer the consequences he'll learn not to do it again.  But I'm pretty sure he's assuming that 'someone' will bail him out if things get too overboard.  Gee ... I wonder who he might have in mind to do that?

Is that really fair?  The past example the OP gave was a behavior of the SIL/BIL, not the FIL.  Why would we assume that the FIL is going to pull the same stunt?

[gramma dishes]

That's a very good point and maybe you're right.  Perhaps I did jump the gun.

But based on other information she gave us, I got the distinct impression that FIL has always been .. well, let's say "unaware" when it comes to handling money and MIL got stuck ultimately trying to adjust the finances.  With both of them retired now, that may be a lot tougher for her or even the two of them together to pull off.

Even if we assume up front that it is not his intention to have to ask for financial help it may come to that anyway if the credit card companies start rejecting further charges and the plans are already set in concrete.  Or if the credit charges do go through, but then they can't make the monthly payments (and of course the added interest charges for the remainder due).

[tiggnduff]

I'm 98% percent positive that FIL will not expect us to bail him out. He will pay for it all I'm pretty sure and hubby and I have discussed this. We will not be paying any more than what we spend and we will give MIL the funds a few days after the event.

It's going to be interesting when the bill is handed out at the end of the night.   

[LeveeWoman]

I'd leave my checkbook, debit card, credit cards and cash at home that night.

[Danika]

If I were in your shoes and I did attend, I would make sure to leave my checkbook, cash and credit cards at home the night of the event. Then, if SIL or FIL approached me and said they needed more money to cover the bill, I'd say I didn't have any.

I agree with the PP. I wouldn't have supported DH in giving extra money to the last event.

I know I said above that if I were in your shoes, I'd cover my own expenses. But now with this new info I think that SIL and FIL might actually be trying to get you guys to pony up more money. In good conscience, I don't think I could go along with knowing about this party. In your shoes, I would discourage DH from attending and I would be absent as well. I would take MIL and FIL out to dinner some other time to celebrate, and treat them to a modest meal at a nice, not cheap but not expensive place. I wouldn't want to be involved in this at all.

ETA: just saw LeveeWoman's post after I posted. Wasn't trying to steal her idea. I just agree. 

[jpcher]

I'm 98% percent positive that FIL will not expect us to bail him out. He will pay for it all I'm pretty sure and hubby and I have discussed this. We will not be paying any more than what we spend and we will give MIL the funds a few days after the event.

It's going to be interesting when the bill is handed out at the end of the night.   

Thank you for your previous update -- The In-Laws had a huge hoopla on their 40th anniversary.

Now FIL wants to do another huge hoopla only five years later? Then I totally agree that the onus is on FIL and you shouldn't worry a whit about how it's paid for.

I still wouldn't talk to your MIL about this. If there's an argument between them after the fact? Then let them work it out by themselves. Their finances are their business.

Instead of giving MIL the funds a few days later, I think that you should include a check as a gift, with your card, at the time of the party. Just like you would at a wedding reception.

Sending a check later and saying something like "I know you couldn't really afford this, but here is our contribution to the party" is rude in my book.

Give them a monetary gift that you're comfortable with, along with a heart-felt card and congratulatory note, then turn your head at any other conversations concerning the cost of a party that someone else (your FIL) is hosting.

[kudeebee]

Your dh has talked to fil and fil has told him what he plans to do.  So, the two of you need to step back and let fil plan his event as he wants it.  He is an adult and will need to be responsible for his actions/spending of money.  It might make things tight for mil and fil for awhile, but they will survive.

Do not offer any money, even after the fact, to pay for your meals. Let fil handle it.  I am surprised that you two bailed out sil at the event she planned.  You should have let her suffer the consequences of her plans; the business would have worked out something with her. They would not have created a scene but would have dealt with her after the event was over, not in front of the guests.  Maybe she would have learned a lesson about planning what you can afford.  Instead she learned you two will bail her out.

I agree with other posters to leave credit cards, debit cards, checkbook at home and only have a modest (under $100) amount of cash with you.  It is not up to you to bail others out.  Let them take care of themselves.

Also, I agree with not talking to mil about this.  It is not your business to do so and ruin fil's surprise.

[tiggnduff]

I'm 98% percent positive that FIL will not expect us to bail him out. He will pay for it all I'm pretty sure and hubby and I have discussed this. We will not be paying any more than what we spend and we will give MIL the funds a few days after the event.

It's going to be interesting when the bill is handed out at the end of the night.   

Thank you for your previous update -- The In-Laws had a huge hoopla on their 40th anniversary.

Now FIL wants to do another huge hoopla only five years later? Then I totally agree that the onus is on FIL and you shouldn't worry a whit about how it's paid for.

I still wouldn't talk to your MIL about this. If there's an argument between them after the fact? Then let them work it out by themselves. Their finances are their business.

Instead of giving MIL the funds a few days later, I think that you should include a check as a gift, with your card, at the time of the party. Just like you would at a wedding reception.

Sending a check later and saying something like "I know you couldn't really afford this, but here is our contribution to the party" is rude in my book.

Give them a monetary gift that you're comfortable with, along with a heart-felt card and congratulatory note, then turn your head at any other conversations concerning the cost of a party that someone else (your FIL) is hosting.

I really like this idea! I think that is the route we are going to go. Thank you.

Re: ponying up at the earlier event. I did not agree at all and in fact it was quite the disagreement between hubby and I that in fact basically ruined our evening that night and took us a few days to sort out.

We are just going to go with the flow on this one and try and it go. It's really none of our business in the end. If there is any drama after the fact we plan on staying as far far away from it.

[gramma dishes]

...   We are just going to go with the flow on this one and try and it go. It's really none of our business in the end. If there is any drama after the fact we plan on staying as far far away from it.

Sounds like you and your husband have discussed it thoroughly and have come to a logical and sane agreement.  Hope it all goes well and drama free.

[LeveeWoman]

If I were in your shoes and I did attend, I would make sure to leave my checkbook, cash and credit cards at home the night of the event. Then, if SIL or FIL approached me and said they needed more money to cover the bill, I'd say I didn't have any.

I agree with the PP. I wouldn't have supported DH in giving extra money to the last event.

I know I said above that if I were in your shoes, I'd cover my own expenses. But now with this new info I think that SIL and FIL might actually be trying to get you guys to pony up more money. In good conscience, I don't think I could go along with knowing about this party. In your shoes, I would discourage DH from attending and I would be absent as well. I would take MIL and FIL out to dinner some other time to celebrate, and treat them to a modest meal at a nice, not cheap but not expensive place. I wouldn't want to be involved in this at all.

ETA: just saw LeveeWoman's post after I posted. Wasn't trying to steal her idea. I just agree. 

G.M.T.A!

[Scuba_Dog]

Not sure if this will work or not but the next time your husband speaks to his father about this, suggest to him that he try to swing the vocabulary toward actual numbers and away from words like "line of credit" and "open menu".

I say this because those are 'romanticized' words and they make it easy for the brain to ignore what they really mean.

If you and your husband have a rough idea of what you think this could cost (and figure on the high end because it usually turns out that way) I would start using that number when speaking to FIL.

Talk numbers.  "FIL-Dad, do you realize that this could end up costing upwards of four thousand dollars?" Sometimes hearing the numbers out loud has a way of bringing people back into reality.

Might work - might not - but I'd try that approach.

[Iris]

I'm afraid I'm still going against the flow a bit here. If someone was going to spend $4000 of MY money I'd want to know. I don't think that FIL's right to surprise his wife outweighs MIL's right to not have a whole heap of her money spent without her consent or even knowledge.

Failing that FIL should be told very bluntly "I don't think MIL will like this. This is a lot of money. Do you have a plan to pay this off or will you leave it to her? Leave it to her? That's not really a present then is it?"  He's going to have to come down from the clouds anyway. Why not do it before he is taken down by a worried and possibly angry wife?

[Lynn2000]

I'm afraid I'm still going against the flow a bit here. If someone was going to spend $4000 of MY money I'd want to know. I don't think that FIL's right to surprise his wife outweighs MIL's right to not have a whole heap of her money spent without her consent or even knowledge.

Failing that FIL should be told very bluntly "I don't think MIL will like this. This is a lot of money. Do you have a plan to pay this off or will you leave it to her? Leave it to her? That's not really a present then is it?"  He's going to have to come down from the clouds anyway. Why not do it before he is taken down by a worried and possibly angry wife?

If this were my particular parents, that's what I would do, actually. I would see it as a situation where our relationship trumps etiquette rules. But I hesitate to give that advice to anyone else, because it really depends on the relationship between the two people.

Maybe DH and his father have that kind of relationship, maybe they don't. Sounds like the OP definitely doesn't have that kind of relationship with her FIL. Given that DH gave all that money to his sister at the last anniversary, is there a chance that in talking to his father further, he might be convinced to pay for a large portion of the evening, without the OP agreeing? That would be bad. I don't think it would be rude to just wash my hands of it at this point, try to spend modestly for my portion of the meal, give a monetary gift instead of a thing gift, and then... brace for impact.

[gramma dishes]

I'm afraid I'm still going against the flow a bit here. If someone was going to spend $4000 of MY money I'd want to know. I don't think that FIL's right to surprise his wife outweighs MIL's right to not have a whole heap of her money spent without her consent or even knowledge.

Failing that FIL should be told very bluntly "I don't think MIL will like this. This is a lot of money. Do you have a plan to pay this off or will you leave it to her? Leave it to her? That's not really a present then is it?"  He's going to have to come down from the clouds anyway. Why not do it before he is taken down by a worried and possibly angry wife?

Honestly, this is how I feel too.  It isn't clear whether or not FIL may have a separate account of just "his" money from which he intends to pay for this.  If so, I think it's his business and everyone else should probably stay out of it. 

But if she has been the primary contributor to their mutual/joint funds, then I too am very uncomfortable that this whole thing is being planned without her knowledge, much less her consent.