Author Topic: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE #87,#173**  (Read 36082 times)

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Eden

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Re: Prom Cling-on
« Reply #75 on: March 25, 2013, 03:39:44 PM »
I think going to the administration is over the top and misses a chance for the OP's daughter to learn how to handle a tough situation herself. My advice is the same as it would be if this were a group of adults and an acquaintance was trying to insert herself into a group event to which she was not invited. "AG, I think maybe there was a misunderstanding. We have a group that already made plans and we won't be adding anymore to the headcount." And then at the dance if AG won't leave her alone. "AG, I'm going to excuse myself. " (walk away without waiting for a response) And if she STILL won't leave her along. "Hey there AG, I know you don't mean to, but you're monopolizing all of my time. I'm going to excuse myself to go chat with some friends. Can you please give me a little space for awhile?" It's unpleasant but it's the only way. That and asking her friends to rescue her, "Oh, hey, AG. Sorry for the interruption. I need to grab OP's Daughter. Please excuse us."

CreteGirl

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Re: Prom Cling-on
« Reply #76 on: March 25, 2013, 03:48:35 PM »
I just wanted to say, "having a crush on someone" isn't necessarily sexual or even romantic. There is such a thing as a "friends crush," in my opinion.

So AG could have a crush on the OP's daughter and still be quite heterosexual.

I agree.

BeagleMommy

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Re: Prom Cling-on
« Reply #77 on: March 25, 2013, 04:29:09 PM »
AG's feelings are going to get hurt no matter how gently she is told.  Unfortunately, that happens sometimes.  OP, I think your DD should employ the "lather, rinse, repeat" tactic.  When she sees AG say "I'm sorry, but I've made plans with another group for prom and we can't accommodate another person".  If your DD sees AG at the prom she can be polite, but stand offish.  If AG tries to cling and follow DD around, alert one of the chaperones.

Jaelle

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Re: Prom Cling-on
« Reply #78 on: March 25, 2013, 06:08:07 PM »
I just finished reading the thread and had to sit and think for a while. It brings back a lot of memories that really are not good.

I was very shy in high school. I got better in college, but not a lot. I've done things somewhat like AG seems to have in mind.  :-[  I'm embarrassed about it now, but at the time, I was thinking I was doing what all the adults described when they told me to "Talk to people! Show an interest! They just think you like to be alone!"

So I tagged along with groups that probably didn't really want me, showed up at parties I hadn't been explicitly invited to and probably made a right nuisance of myself. And I was so proud that I was being brave!

OP, I think your DD needs to be blunt, but gentle. AG might be thinking the same thing I was all those years ago. And personally, I wouldn't want to go to a prom where the group I'd planned to hang with really didn't want me to do so (and I didn't have another group that would want me, either). I'd much rather stay home with a good book.

Understand that I'm not blaming your DD. (I'm a much different person now. Somewhere along the line, I even became downright outgoing! :D)  She should be able to enjoy herself. But AG just isn't getting it and it would, in a way, be a kindness for DD to be explicit.

(Now I'm wondering what advice I'd give others in my high school shoes. Obviously, the advice I was given was badly misinterpreted or just plain wrong. I might have to start a thread about this ...)
“She was already learning that if you ignore the rules people will, half the time, quietly rewrite them so that they don't apply to you.”
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rain

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Re: Prom Cling-on
« Reply #79 on: March 25, 2013, 08:48:12 PM »
OP - any updates?
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Dr. F.

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Re: Prom Cling-on
« Reply #80 on: March 25, 2013, 08:54:31 PM »
I just finished reading the thread and had to sit and think for a while. It brings back a lot of memories that really are not good.

I was very shy in high school. I got better in college, but not a lot. I've done things somewhat like AG seems to have in mind.  :-[  I'm embarrassed about it now, but at the time, I was thinking I was doing what all the adults described when they told me to "Talk to people! Show an interest! They just think you like to be alone!"

So I tagged along with groups that probably didn't really want me, showed up at parties I hadn't been explicitly invited to and probably made a right nuisance of myself. And I was so proud that I was being brave!

OP, I think your DD needs to be blunt, but gentle. AG might be thinking the same thing I was all those years ago. And personally, I wouldn't want to go to a prom where the group I'd planned to hang with really didn't want me to do so (and I didn't have another group that would want me, either). I'd much rather stay home with a good book.

Understand that I'm not blaming your DD. (I'm a much different person now. Somewhere along the line, I even became downright outgoing! :D)  She should be able to enjoy herself. But AG just isn't getting it and it would, in a way, be a kindness for DD to be explicit.

(Now I'm wondering what advice I'd give others in my high school shoes. Obviously, the advice I was given was badly misinterpreted or just plain wrong. I might have to start a thread about this ...)

Please do start said thread. I haven't commented, because of my discomfort of thinking about the times I may have been AG-ish. I don't think I was ever quite that bad, and I'm *certainly* not that person now, but....

I feel for the OP's dd and for AG, and I'm ending up conflicted, probably because of my past. I don't know how we can avoid such situations.

ETA: I've been on the dd's side of the situation since high school, so I have an interest on both sides of the equation, so to speak.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 08:57:29 PM by Dr. F. »

nuit93

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Re: Prom Cling-on
« Reply #81 on: March 25, 2013, 08:59:49 PM »
I just finished reading the thread and had to sit and think for a while. It brings back a lot of memories that really are not good.

I was very shy in high school. I got better in college, but not a lot. I've done things somewhat like AG seems to have in mind.  :-[  I'm embarrassed about it now, but at the time, I was thinking I was doing what all the adults described when they told me to "Talk to people! Show an interest! They just think you like to be alone!"

So I tagged along with groups that probably didn't really want me, showed up at parties I hadn't been explicitly invited to and probably made a right nuisance of myself. And I was so proud that I was being brave!

OP, I think your DD needs to be blunt, but gentle. AG might be thinking the same thing I was all those years ago. And personally, I wouldn't want to go to a prom where the group I'd planned to hang with really didn't want me to do so (and I didn't have another group that would want me, either). I'd much rather stay home with a good book.

Understand that I'm not blaming your DD. (I'm a much different person now. Somewhere along the line, I even became downright outgoing! :D)  She should be able to enjoy herself. But AG just isn't getting it and it would, in a way, be a kindness for DD to be explicit.

(Now I'm wondering what advice I'd give others in my high school shoes. Obviously, the advice I was given was badly misinterpreted or just plain wrong. I might have to start a thread about this ...)

I was that person in high school too, embarrassed to say.  Will be watching for that thread.

LifeOnPluto

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Re: Prom Cling-on
« Reply #82 on: March 25, 2013, 09:46:57 PM »
"I'm so sorry, AG, but we've already got our prom group established, and our plans are set.  But it sounds like you and AG1 and AG2 have a great start on a group, you guys should start making plans--you can do prom your own way that way!"

It's hard to be in either position.  There's kindness and cuts no matter what they do, but DD's feelings and experience are important, too.  It'll be a good experience in politely and subtly--but firmly--standing her ground, and for AG, it'll be an experience in making her own way, socially.

I believe AG1 and AG2 are actually part of Joraemi's DD's group, and AG actually has no one to go with.
Oops, I missed that.

If AG1 and AG2 *want* this girl to come, DD may not have much say.  If not, then the comment about "already established, plans are set" could still be useful.

I recall from the OP's update that the other members of the group don't really want AG joining them either.

I just finished reading the thread and had to sit and think for a while. It brings back a lot of memories that really are not good.

I was very shy in high school. I got better in college, but not a lot. I've done things somewhat like AG seems to have in mind.  :-[  I'm embarrassed about it now, but at the time, I was thinking I was doing what all the adults described when they told me to "Talk to people! Show an interest! They just think you like to be alone!"

So I tagged along with groups that probably didn't really want me, showed up at parties I hadn't been explicitly invited to and probably made a right nuisance of myself. And I was so proud that I was being brave!

OP, I think your DD needs to be blunt, but gentle. AG might be thinking the same thing I was all those years ago. And personally, I wouldn't want to go to a prom where the group I'd planned to hang with really didn't want me to do so (and I didn't have another group that would want me, either). I'd much rather stay home with a good book.

Understand that I'm not blaming your DD. (I'm a much different person now. Somewhere along the line, I even became downright outgoing! :D)  She should be able to enjoy herself. But AG just isn't getting it and it would, in a way, be a kindness for DD to be explicit.

(Now I'm wondering what advice I'd give others in my high school shoes. Obviously, the advice I was given was badly misinterpreted or just plain wrong. I might have to start a thread about this ...)

Great post! And yes, please start that thread. I can see how people who are shy / socially awkward might get confused. Often, when a person asks "How can I make friends?" the advice given is along the lines of "Be sociable and out-going. Join in. If you hear a nice group of people talking about going to see a movie, you should invite yourself along too!"

I also bolded what I think is an important sentence. It's horrible attending an event where no one wants to interact with you. If AG truly has no friends - or at least no one whose willing to talk with her at the prom - I honestly think she'd have a better time staying home.

CreteGirl

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Re: Prom Cling-on
« Reply #83 on: March 26, 2013, 02:19:28 PM »
Yep, I've done some AG things too.  And as an adult!  This thread has made me do some thinking about times I may not have gotten the hint. 

Lynn2000

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Re: Prom Cling-on
« Reply #84 on: March 26, 2013, 05:08:14 PM »
I think going to the administration is over the top and misses a chance for the OP's daughter to learn how to handle a tough situation herself. My advice is the same as it would be if this were a group of adults and an acquaintance was trying to insert herself into a group event to which she was not invited. "AG, I think maybe there was a misunderstanding. We have a group that already made plans and we won't be adding anymore to the headcount." And then at the dance if AG won't leave her alone. "AG, I'm going to excuse myself. " (walk away without waiting for a response) And if she STILL won't leave her along. "Hey there AG, I know you don't mean to, but you're monopolizing all of my time. I'm going to excuse myself to go chat with some friends. Can you please give me a little space for awhile?" It's unpleasant but it's the only way. That and asking her friends to rescue her, "Oh, hey, AG. Sorry for the interruption. I need to grab OP's Daughter. Please excuse us."

I think this summarizes my thoughts best. If AG seems to think she's included in official pre/post-prom plans, that needs to be corrected right away, before she tries to tag along to a private event. While at the actual prom, I don't think DD can expect to never interact with AG, as it's a "public" venue, but she can say things like, "Well, it was nice talking to you. I'm going over here now. Hope you have fun," followed by, "Actually I wanted to talk to Mary and Bob by myself. I'll see you around," followed by, "AG, I feel like you've been following me around a lot tonight. Could you please leave me alone for a while?"

And I think she should talk to the friends in her group about this, and make sure they're aware that they shouldn't invite AG to any of the festivities on their own. I mean, if they truly want to, that's a different issue; but assuming they don't, they should strategize about how not to get guilted or otherwise manipulated into inviting her. Like, everyone in the group knows that AG isn't invited, so if AG claims one of the others said it was okay, they will all know she's wrong. Probably more than one of the girls in DD's group feels sorry for AG; but if any of them cave, all of them, especially DD, will suffer for it. And maybe they would all find it both educational and somewhat entertaining to roleplay amongst themselves about politely deflecting people.

I was in sort of the "middle tier" in high school--not popular, but not a misfit either. Sometimes people hung around me and my friends, and seemed to feel like we were better friends than we actually were, simply because we weren't mean to them. Mostly it was okay with me because I personally didn't do much social stuff, so they didn't have an opportunity to cling to me. But I would always see them hanging around the edge of our group, or sitting at the end of the lunch table awkwardly. I don't recall people actually ignoring them if they spoke, but people definitely didn't try to draw them into the conversation, either; and often this made the point that they weren't actually friends with us. It would have been really uncomfortable if they had been more "outgoing" like AG is, and actively tried to insert themselves into things.
~Lynn2000

Jaelle

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Re: Prom Cling-on
« Reply #85 on: March 26, 2013, 08:30:59 PM »
For those who asked: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?board=11.0

OP, did your DD come to a decision?
“She was already learning that if you ignore the rules people will, half the time, quietly rewrite them so that they don't apply to you.”
― Terry Pratchett, Equal Rites

Bijou

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Re: Prom Cling-on
« Reply #86 on: March 26, 2013, 10:38:52 PM »
My heart is breaking for both of the girls. 
I've never knitted anything I could recognize when it was finished.  Actually, I've never finished anything, much to my family's relief.

joraemi

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Re: Prom Cling-on
« Reply #87 on: March 27, 2013, 08:56:53 AM »
***UPDATE***

Op here.

I've been sharing your feedback and comments with DD.  Just saying the words to AG seems to make DD sweat - she really doesn't want to hurt this girl's feelings. Last night we were discussing it again and I verified that as a unit, her group does not want AG to come with them.  I asked why then, is it falling to DD to be the one to tell her?  I pointed out that we are neighbors with AG, and that we need to keep neighborly relationships in mind.

SO - for the moment, she has decided that when the opportuniy arises (as it should because everyone is talking about prom now), she is going to feign ignorance:


AG: I'm getting so excited about prom!

DD: Me too!  What group are you going with?

AG:....I thought I was going with you?

DD: Oh my gosh, AG. I'm so sorry. We've had our group set for quite awhile and have planned activities with our number in mind, we can't really change that now. When you said the other day that you were haning out with me and AG1 and AG2 I thought you were joking! I'm so sorry or I would have said something right then.

If the opportunity doesn't present itself soon, DD is just going to strike up a convo beginning with the "So... what group are you going to prom with?" line.

What do you guys think?


*side note* I asked who AG spends her time with, surely she can't be completely devoid of friends - DD said that AG's normal group that she associates with are her (AG's) younger sister's friends. 




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joraemi

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #88 on: March 27, 2013, 09:08:50 AM »
Someone upthread asked about the homework situation...

What was happening was AG woudl text DD and say - I don't understand how to do #9 in math - can you send me a pic of your worksheet?  So DD would snap a pic of her worksheet and send it - because it would never occur to DD to cheat!  After about 3-4 times of this DD came to me and said, "Mom - I think I have an issue."  She explained to me what was going on and I said the next time she asks, just ask her what number she is having trouble with and you will explain it to her.  SO she did and AG's response was, "1, 4, 13, 16, 22, etc, etc".  You get the picture.  So DD actually spent the time explaining them all to her (knowing that AG really just wanted to copy them).  The requests started coming less and less frequently and I think she stopped altogether.

Then a couple of weeks ago they were sitting next to each other in the computer lab for Spanish class.  Ag kept saying, "What did you get for #3? How about #8?" etc.  Finally after about 3 of those DD looked her dead in the eye and said, "I don't remember. *I* had to  look it up in my notes.".  I think AG got the clue at that point as DD had most likely just done the answer in question, kwim?

DD was unfortunately paired with this girl for the entire first semester in Spanish for group work.  Ag did next to nothing and usually it was DD who took up the slack so their grades wouldn't suffer. Not entirely a big deal as DD is really good in that class.  It's the point.

I cna't remember if I answered the question about th elite - they aren't concerned about her horning in on the limo - they just aren't going to tell her where they are getting picked up, etc.  BUT - at Homecoming she didn't travel to the dance with them either but was waiting at the doors for DD to arrive so that she could accompany them in to the dance.

Afterprom is a HUGE event organized and managed by the school - so AG will most likely be there and DD will have to figure out how she is going to manage that.  I did remind DD about your suggestions to go to the chaperones at the dance if AG needs some redirection to find someone else to spend time with.  Fortunately, my DH is going to be one of the chaperones at afterprom (He is on the entertainment committee - he is so excited he almost can't stand it!), so she will have her dad there for back up if necessary.




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gen xer

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Re: Prom Cling-on
« Reply #89 on: March 27, 2013, 09:17:43 AM »
I've been reading this and wavering back and forth with all these conflicting opinions crashing around in my mind....

OP's DD shouldn't have to put up with having a burr up her backside all evening trailing her around....although I am having trouble getting on board with the histrionic "stalker" and "girl crush" ideas.  Not every person who can't take a hint deserves to be labelled a stalker - annoying and clueless maybe....but it minimizes it when any and all instances of overbearing social ineptness gets lumped in with dangerous and criminal behaviour.

Back on track now....if the limo / dinner isn't an issue then why can't these girls show a little grace and kindness to AG and not completely snub her at the prom?  If she becomes a nuisance glomming on the whole evening then the DD has every right to politely yet firmly tell her to back off.  No argument here and I agree that it is a good idea for all involved to start learning these lessons in polite spines, tact and social maturity now.  That means AG is likely to get a hard lesson in social skills....but it is a lesson that she needs to learn - how to read social cues, to not insert oneself where one is not wanted etc.

And yet...as other posters have pointed out the prom is not the exclusive domain of DD and her group and there is the expectation there that even the outsiders are to be treated with respect and kindness.  I don't think it would kill anyone to be friendly and maybe spend a little time with someone while maintaining a healthy boundary.

It seems like they are going into this prom in "circle the wagons" mode and I get that it stems from a bad experience at the Homecoming....but anticipating the same behaviour - while a good reason to start practising the polite spine doesn't really warrant a pre-emptive - "she is NOT going to sit with us, speak to us, spoil our prom" strike.  Be nice to her at the prom - talk to her, hang out for a few minutes here and there....and be prepared to tell her to back off if it gets too much.