Author Topic: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE #87,#173**  (Read 33466 times)

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Lynn2000

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #105 on: March 27, 2013, 12:41:37 PM »
Thinking back on my own school days, I'm honestly getting confused about DD's social obligations to AG. I'm picturing that when AG strolls up to DD and her friends, DD feels obligated to include AG in the conversation, to make extensive replies to her comments, etc.. And I'm wondering if this gives the impression of friendliness and inclusion to AG, when that's not really what DD wants to convey.

Would it be rude if DD and her friends did not make an effort to include AG in the conversation, even if she was standing right there? (having joined them of her own accord) If AG said something, would it be rude for the others to be like, "Oh. Hmm," then go back to their own conversation?

I ask because I feel like this was considered the "nice" way of rejecting someone when I was in school, and it seemed to be fairly effective. But, I'm having trouble figuring out if it's actually rude, or not.
~Lynn2000

TheaterDiva1

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #106 on: March 27, 2013, 12:47:48 PM »
DD was unfortunately paired with this girl for the entire first semester in Spanish for group work.  Ag did next to nothing and usually it was DD who took up the slack so their grades wouldn't suffer. Not entirely a big deal as DD is really good in that class.  It's the point.

How did they get paired off anyway?  Did the teacher assign them or did AG "claim" DD as her partner? (I doubt this was DD's idea).  DD might want to bring this situation to the teacher's attention.

joraemi

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #107 on: March 27, 2013, 12:59:53 PM »
DD was unfortunately paired with this girl for the entire first semester in Spanish for group work.  Ag did next to nothing and usually it was DD who took up the slack so their grades wouldn't suffer. Not entirely a big deal as DD is really good in that class.  It's the point.

How did they get paired off anyway?  Did the teacher assign them or did AG "claim" DD as her partner? (I doubt this was DD's idea).  DD might want to bring this situation to the teacher's attention.

You know - I don't know if it was a coincidental pairing by the teacher or if AG initiated it.

SO - for the moment, she has decided that when the opportuniy arises (as it should because everyone is talking about prom now), she is going to feign ignorance:

AG: I'm getting so excited about prom!

DD: Me too!  What group are you going with?

AG:....I thought I was going with you?

DD: Oh my gosh, AG. I'm so sorry. We've had our group set for quite awhile and have planned activities with our number in mind, we can't really change that now. When you said the other day that you were hanging out with me and AG1 and AG2 I thought you were joking! I'm so sorry or I would have said something right then.

Please, please tell DD not to say that. I would be crushed if someone with whom I was friendly told me that the possibility of me hanging out with them was surely a joke. DD has to walk a fine line, and that comment falls on the "cruel" side.

Really?  Haven't you ever had that happen with someone and it resulted in a misunderstanding? (Someone says something that you assume is in jest when in reality they were serious)

I agree that the line here is thin - which is why DD is having such a difficult time with it. She wants to set a boundary and not hurt AG's feelings all at the same time.  She is learning that boundary setting can sometimes be a little painful for both parties, but it's a necessary skill to learn.




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gramma dishes

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Re: Prom Cling-on
« Reply #108 on: March 27, 2013, 01:06:17 PM »

Please, please tell DD not to say that. I would be crushed if someone with whom I was friendly told me that even the possibility of me hanging out with them was surely a joke. DD has to walk a fine line, and that comment falls on the "cruel" side.

Wow!  I do agree with Mrs. Tilney here.  I can't imagine anything a whole lot more painfully hurtful as a teen than having someone I really liked tell me that the idea of my hanging around with her and her friends would be so totally implausible as to be funny!  Ouch!   :(

rashea

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #109 on: March 27, 2013, 01:11:22 PM »
What if she tried calling her at home? Then it reduces some of the pressure of a face to face meeting.

She could say, "AG, I realized that the other day you were indicating that you wanted to hang out with us at prom. We're fine with hanging for a while, but we had planned this as a special night for just the group of us. I hope you understand, and I wanted to clear this up before it became a problem."

"Manners change, principles don't. It's about treating people with consideration, respect and honesty." Peter Post

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julianna

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #110 on: March 27, 2013, 01:15:32 PM »
DD was unfortunately paired with this girl for the entire first semester in Spanish for group work.  Ag did next to nothing and usually it was DD who took up the slack so their grades wouldn't suffer. Not entirely a big deal as DD is really good in that class.  It's the point.

How did they get paired off anyway?  Did the teacher assign them or did AG "claim" DD as her partner? (I doubt this was DD's idea).  DD might want to bring this situation to the teacher's attention.

You know - I don't know if it was a coincidental pairing by the teacher or if AG initiated it.

SO - for the moment, she has decided that when the opportuniy arises (as it should because everyone is talking about prom now), she is going to feign ignorance:

AG: I'm getting so excited about prom!

DD: Me too!  What group are you going with?

AG:....I thought I was going with you?

DD: Oh my gosh, AG. I'm so sorry. We've had our group set for quite awhile and have planned activities with our number in mind, we can't really change that now. When you said the other day that you were hanging out with me and AG1 and AG2 I thought you were joking! I'm so sorry or I would have said something right then.

Please, please tell DD not to say that. I would be crushed if someone with whom I was friendly told me that the possibility of me hanging out with them was surely a joke. DD has to walk a fine line, and that comment falls on the "cruel" side.

Really?  Haven't you ever had that happen with someone and it resulted in a misunderstanding? (Someone says something that you assume is in jest when in reality they were serious)

I agree that the line here is thin - which is why DD is having such a difficult time with it. She wants to set a boundary and not hurt AG's feelings all at the same time.  She is learning that boundary setting can sometimes be a little painful for both parties, but it's a necessary skill to learn.

I agree that saying she thought it was a joke would be hurtful.  She could pretend it was a misunderstanding -- "I'm sorry -- I know you mentioned hanging out at the prom, but I assumed you meant we'd bump into each other there.  I've actually had plans with [list of people] for a long time now -- sorry for the misunderstanding."  Okay, I'm sure someone else can come up with better wording, but the point is that assuming she must be joking about hanging out seems really mean.

I know your DD wasn't enthusiastic about telling AG she already has plans with her friends (and therefore implying "and you're not one of them"), but what about telling her she already has plans with "my close friends" (maybe something about how she's excited to spend time with her close friends before they all graduate)?  That lets AG save face by pretending she's just not as close, plus if AG protests that she's DD's friend, DD can point out that they're not close friends and don't socialize outside of school.

Is dinner assigned seating?  Is AG going to show up at prom and suddenly have nowhere to sit because DD's table is full?

Please keep encouraging DD to say something to AG as soon as possible.  I'm sure AG would rather have an accurate view of the situation beforehand instead of having a miserable time at the prom.

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SleepyKitty

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #111 on: March 27, 2013, 01:16:26 PM »
Even when DD tried to slip away to spend time with someone else, AG literally *chased* her (as in - running!).

I've been following the thread, but I just wanted to really emphasize this bit of your post. While I agree with others that a prom is a social event, and you can't entirely control who you interact with, the above is what says to me that DD needs to speak to this girl and she needs to do it before prom. Ideally, you'd address the behaviour when it happens, not just assume it's going to happen. But literally chasing someone is completely inappropriate - that goes beyond awkward and clueless. I don't think it's malicious at all, I just think it signals that AG's behaviour is extreme enough that it ought to be per-emptively dealt with, and additionally that *in this situation* DD has the right to refuse to include her, even at a social event like prom which is hosted by a third party.

Alternatively, if DD does want to socialize with AG at the prom, but only for a little bit, I don't suggest using vague terms. It sounds like there is no way that AG is going to take a hint like, "Well, I'm heading back to my group now!" without following, so being specific might be useful. Could she make sub-plans with AG? Something like, "I'm going to be really busy with my friends, but why don't I find you after we all eat dinner for ten minutes? I have to go back to my group after that, but I'd like to say hi."

guihong

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #112 on: March 27, 2013, 01:20:24 PM »
I've been AG :(.  Perhaps even moreso, because I never went to prom (although our prom was much more of a date thing than going in groups).

If this is getting difficult for your DD to handle (and it's taken 8+ pages for US to discuss it, and we have many more years experience than your DD), is it possible for you and DD to go talk with AG's parents?  Not in a "make AG go away" way, but perhaps there's a story behind the story that you don't know?  There's just such a fine line between firm and hurtful here.



EMuir

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #113 on: March 27, 2013, 01:24:38 PM »
AG wouldn't be seen as "chasing" if she really was part of the clique.  All the clique members are arranging to spend the whole night together, after all, and they don't find each other annoying.  I would ask why this girl is being excluded.  If she has annoying behaviors, use etiquette during conversation to counter them and either she'll stop or leave. 

It's really easy to be on the inside of the group.  I think it would be far better to relax the clique and allow this girl to just be part of the group.  They don't have to make special efforts to include her, but excluding her on purpose would be mean.  If they want to exclude her then they have to admit they are a clique and to enforce that boundary means you are mean to people who don't meet your criteria, and own that.

SPuck

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #114 on: March 27, 2013, 01:29:43 PM »
I think your daughter is going to have to decide if she wants to be miserable or hurt AG's feelings. It doesn't sound like there is going to be any middle ground with this girl. From your explanation of the previous dance it sounds like AG will spend the night latched onto your DD if given the chance, so either your DD has to handle it now or then.

SleepyKitty

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #115 on: March 27, 2013, 01:43:09 PM »
If they want to exclude her then they have to admit they are a clique and to enforce that boundary means you are mean to people who don't meet your criteria, and own that.

Some people will be friends, and some won't, and it doesn't make this group of friends a clique just because AG doesn't fit with them. It's not their job to make AG into someone they want to hang out with.

Enforcing boundaries does not make DD mean. AG was not perceived as chasing she was literally, physically chasing - running down - DD. It is completely normal to be made uncomfortable by behaviour like that, and I applaud the OP for *not* teaching her daughter that she needs to put up with it to be a "nice" girl.

As an adult, my reaction would be closer to yours - to counter the things that are annoying or uncomfortable directly in a conversation and let AG decide if she wants to change them or to no longer socialize. But DD is a teenager, in high school, and I sympathize that she doesn't feel like she can handle things that way. DD is being very careful not to be mean.

(Edited to add punctuation)

*inviteseller

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #116 on: March 27, 2013, 01:45:08 PM »
EMuir, i have to respectfully disagree that they are acting cliquey.  I knew every person in my graduating class (small school, 135 in my class) and I would say hi when we were at lockers, or chat in a class, but everyone had their own groups of friends based on interests and personalities.  I would have been out of place trying to be part of the cheerleader group as I had nothing in common with them as much as they would have been a fish out of water with my nerd group.   I think it is wrong to actually do any more than say 'hi' to this girl or just generally chat if they run into each other in the bathroom or in a line to get a drink because by allowing AG to join them is saying she is part of a group of friends that she isn't.  It isn't a true friendship if they are only pity friends.  She obviously does not 'fit' in this group...and that is ok because not everyone fits into every group of people.  They are not rude to her, they just don't care to share her company.  On this board there are stories about having to go to events knowing someone you don't want to be around is there, and the advise is to be minimally polite by saying hello, but then moving on.  Why should the OP's DD not be allowed to do this instead of giving up her and her best friends prom experience for the sake of one girl?  It is not mean to not want to be friends with someone.  To me, the rude one in this whole story is AG for insinuating herself into a group where she has not been invited. 

Eeep!

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #117 on: March 27, 2013, 02:17:10 PM »
AG wouldn't be seen as "chasing" if she really was part of the clique.  All the clique members are arranging to spend the whole night together, after all, and they don't find each other annoying.  I would ask why this girl is being excluded.  If she has annoying behaviors, use etiquette during conversation to counter them and either she'll stop or leave. 

It's really easy to be on the inside of the group.  I think it would be far better to relax the clique and allow this girl to just be part of the group.  They don't have to make special efforts to include her, but excluding her on purpose would be mean.  If they want to exclude her then they have to admit they are a clique and to enforce that boundary means you are mean to people who don't meet your criteria, and own that.

I really don't understand this mindset.  People are allowed to have friends. Just because you have a group of friends that you hang out with doesn't automatically make you a clique. There are just some people that you don't mesh with. They are acquaintances.  Yes, it might be nice to try to address someone's annoying behaviors but that could get quite arduous, depending upon how annoying someone really is.  This is a person who would literally -not figuratively, literally - run after someone. It seems to me that addressing her "annoying behaviors" could easily become the focus of ever single interaction. I think that is too much to ask of a group of friends.  I think all etiquette asks is that we be civil to each other. It doesn't require us to hang out with any person who thinks they want to hang out with us.

Most people recognize when they are in the acquaintance - or even friendly acquaintance - category and act accordingly.  AG has not had this realization.

(And I have to say, that the bit about copying from the OP, etc.  actually does make me think that AG isn't just socially awkward but is a bit of a moocher.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

CrazyDaffodilLady

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #118 on: March 27, 2013, 03:18:24 PM »
I suggest that your daughter do everything possible to shut down AG’s expectations before the prom.  If DD has to ask (however nicely) AG to back off at the prom, AG could burst into tears and make a scene.  Unless DD has the spine to walk away, AG has taken control for the rest of the evening.  DD may wind up looking like the villain.  Tears are a good strategy for getting public attention from people who wouldn’t normally pay attention to you. Crying can elicit the sympathy, concern, and “friendship” that AG is desperate for.

I have sympathy for AG, but I’ve also been on the side where an occasion is ruined by an unwelcome participant who disrupts the group dynamics and makes herself the center of attention, whether it’s by being loud and obnoxious or by being sad and whiny.
It takes two people to play tug of war. If you don't want to play, don't pick up the rope.

Sharnita

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #119 on: March 27, 2013, 03:32:31 PM »
Isn't "the group" for this event the entire class?  I mean, what if the coolest of the cool decide FD and her friends are unwelcome participamts and that they msy not dine at certain tables or talk to others? Doesn't attending prom indicate thst you have agreed to a social contract that involves being cordial to people you don't otherwise hang out eith? If you wanted to restrict it to just your group then wouldn't it be best for the group yo go somrwhere alone?