Author Topic: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE #87,#173**  (Read 34337 times)

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Eden

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #120 on: March 27, 2013, 03:49:21 PM »
Isn't "the group" for this event the entire class?  I mean, what if the coolest of the cool decide FD and her friends are unwelcome participamts and that they msy not dine at certain tables or talk to others? Doesn't attending prom indicate thst you have agreed to a social contract that involves being cordial to people you don't otherwise hang out eith? If you wanted to restrict it to just your group then wouldn't it be best for the group yo go somrwhere alone?

That's not really what's happening here. First, the group are going OUT to dinner, not saying, "You can't sit at our table at this event where we all are." Second, nobody's saying they can't talk to each other or be cordial. They're saying it's okay for the OP's daughter to ask AG to give her some space. I would think the same thing appropriate if I were at a party as an adult. If one person clung to me such that I could not speak to others without him/her being there, I'd ask for some space.

Eden

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #121 on: March 27, 2013, 03:52:42 PM »
AG wouldn't be seen as "chasing" if she really was part of the clique.  All the clique members are arranging to spend the whole night together, after all, and they don't find each other annoying.  I would ask why this girl is being excluded.  If she has annoying behaviors, use etiquette during conversation to counter them and either she'll stop or leave. 

It's really easy to be on the inside of the group.  I think it would be far better to relax the clique and allow this girl to just be part of the group.  They don't have to make special efforts to include her, but excluding her on purpose would be mean.  If they want to exclude her then they have to admit they are a clique and to enforce that boundary means you are mean to people who don't meet your criteria, and own that.

I think it's important to note that this group did not set out to specifically exclude AG. They made plans without AG and she is trying to insinuate herself into them. AG is putting them and herself in this difficult position.

WillyNilly

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #122 on: March 27, 2013, 03:53:56 PM »
Isn't "the group" for this event the entire class?  I mean, what if the coolest of the cool decide FD and her friends are unwelcome participamts and that they msy not dine at certain tables or talk to others? Doesn't attending prom indicate thst you have agreed to a social contract that involves being cordial to people you don't otherwise hang out eith? If you wanted to restrict it to just your group then wouldn't it be best for the group yo go somrwhere alone?

No the population is the entire class. Human nature and basic logistics require the population be broken down into separate groups: separate groupings for dinner tables because 1 table big enough for every attendee would be unwieldy, separate groupings arriving/leaving together because the logistics of vehicle large enough for the entire class is impractical, separate groups for restrooms (girls/boys) due to modesty, separate groups (sides of the room) for dancers vs people sitting and talking at tables, and yes separate groups of friends clustered together.

That's not really what's happening here. First, the group are going OUT to dinner, not saying, "You can't sit at our table at this event where we all are."...

Actually, our OP let us know:
Dinner is *at* prom.  The limo ride is just to get there.

That's how it was at my prom too. And they were finite sized tables - they only accommodated 8-10 people (I can't remember).

And I think its fine for DD and her friends to say "our table is full." Dinner is a large portion of the prom, way more then just a few minutes of socializing. And its the more intimate part, the part where its this whole big room around you but you are there with just your friends at a private table. The dance floor is where everyone melded and groups dissipated, dinner is where people clustered with their friends. having an 'outsider' at the table could very possibly ruin the whole the night for them. That's where they have their more private conversations, and later that's their group's 'home base' versus the 'public' dance floor part.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 04:00:16 PM by WillyNilly »

Sharnita

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #123 on: March 27, 2013, 03:54:41 PM »
Eden, dinner is at prom.

LadyL

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #124 on: March 27, 2013, 04:07:11 PM »
Isn't "the group" for this event the entire class?  I mean, what if the coolest of the cool decide FD and her friends are unwelcome participamts and that they msy not dine at certain tables or talk to others? Doesn't attending prom indicate thst you have agreed to a social contract that involves being cordial to people you don't otherwise hang out eith? If you wanted to restrict it to just your group then wouldn't it be best for the group yo go somrwhere alone?

Yes, but this contract extends to AG too, and she has already broken it once. "Fool me once, shame on you" and all that. I agree with others that letting her down as kindly as possible before prom is better than risking a scene at prom.


GrammarNerd

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #125 on: March 27, 2013, 04:07:32 PM »
Isn't "the group" for this event the entire class?  I mean, what if the coolest of the cool decide FD and her friends are unwelcome participamts and that they msy not dine at certain tables or talk to others? Doesn't attending prom indicate thst you have agreed to a social contract that involves being cordial to people you don't otherwise hang out eith? If you wanted to restrict it to just your group then wouldn't it be best for the group yo go somrwhere alone?

I don't think that anyone is advocating that OP's DD not be cordial.  But there's a difference between being cordial and letting someone that you are not otherwise close with glue themselves to your side for several hours at a once-in-a-lifetime event and prevent you from enjoying said event. 

AG has already proven that she will try to monopolize OP's DD, to the point of literally running after her if OP's DD tries to walk away.  That's not normal.  And how does the saying go?  'The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.'  AG has already said, point blank, that she intends to hang out with OP's DD and her friends.  Based on AG's own past behavior, the other girls can guess what that will entail, and they want to head that off.

OP, could you clandestinely go to the school guidance counselor and ask him/her for advice?  Tell the GC that your DD is torn, but this is a memorable night for your DD, and she's dreading it b/c of AG at the same time as she's anticipating it.  You don't even have to tell the GC who AG is, but just ask for advice on how your DD should handle it.  Be sure to mention the Homecoming incidents, and say that you're looking for how it can proactively be handled best so that the Homecoming chase doesn't repeat itself.  I mean, you/she obviously need guidance, and this person deals with the high school mentality, so he/she might have some useful advice.  And you wouldn't necessarily have to involve your DD; you could relay the info back to her.

I was friends with a couple of other girls my freshman year in college.  There was a socially awkward girl who kind of latched onto us.  I'd forgotten about her until I read this thread.  We didn't want her to be with us, but we, like OP's DD, didn't want to hurt her either.  We just ended up ditching her sometimes and making secretive plans, and tolerating her when we couldn't.  Not the best option, but it was easier b/c it was a big campus and there was nothing as formal as a Prom to worry about.  And it didn't last long b/c it was toward the end of the year.

LazyDaisy

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #126 on: March 27, 2013, 04:21:06 PM »
It sounds like OP's DD and her group want to have a larger, fluid, more shallow (not in a bad way) social arrangement so they can all mingle and dance without being tied to one another all the time. AG sounds like the kind of person who prefers to have an intimate friendship bond with only 1 or 2 people, that is exclusive -- a BFF. This really isn't about right and wrong ways of being friends with people -- both are equally valid. But one person's preference doesn't override another's. If AG had started out more willing to "move around" and have shallower bonds with others, the other girls wouldn't be so put off by her. However, even then there wouldn't be a guarantee that she would eventually find that deep friendship bond she's hoping for.

I wonder if DD could try to approach that's similar to "it's not you, it's me" kind of break up in order to soften the blow and provide constructive feedback to AG.

"AG, I like to socialize with a lot of different people and be more outgoing, and I get the impression that you like to have a small really close group -- that's OK but it's just not my thing. I'm sure there are lots of other people who might want that kind of friendship, but I don't feel as close to you as you seem to feel toward me. I hope you understand, and find someone who shares your desire for a deeper friendship. I just want to let you know that for Prom, I'll see you there, but I'm not going to hang out with you exclusively."
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julianna

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #127 on: March 27, 2013, 04:27:16 PM »
Let's say you're deciding whether to attend a social event.  You're socially awkward, so you know you won't have fun unless you're with some of your friends.  Fortunately, you find out that a group of your good friends is also planning to attend, and you look forward to spending the evening with them.  But the night of the event arrives, and you discover that none of your friends is there.

That's sort of what will happen to AG if she attends thinking that she will be an integral part of DD's group, only to have the group treat her like a casual acquaintance and avoiding spending more than a few minutes with her.  Now, I am absolutely not saying that DD and her friends are obligated to spend the entire evening with AG.  I think that as long as they are polite with her, and spend a couple of minutes socializing before excusing themselves, that is all that politeness requires.  What I am saying is that AG deserves to have ample warning before prom that the group of close friends she thinks she will spend the evening with does not exist (because they consider her just an acquaintance).  She may decide to attend anyway, or she may not.  But she should have that information in advance, which means that DD will have to spell it out for her in advance.  And, yes, DD should also ask some of DD's friends to make it clear to AG as well.  Not through any mean girl tactics, but I'm sure people here could offer suggestions.

It's not a choice between "DD spends every single minute of prom with AG" and "DD and her friends totally shun AG."  There is definitely a middle ground where DD can be nice without being stuck with AG as her shadow.  I just think it would be so much kinder to let AG know as soon as possible that the "spending the night clinging to DD" plan is not going to happen.

Eden

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #128 on: March 27, 2013, 05:08:35 PM »
It sounds like OP's DD and her group want to have a larger, fluid, more shallow (not in a bad way) social arrangement so they can all mingle and dance without being tied to one another all the time. AG sounds like the kind of person who prefers to have an intimate friendship bond with only 1 or 2 people, that is exclusive -- a BFF. This really isn't about right and wrong ways of being friends with people -- both are equally valid. But one person's preference doesn't override another's. If AG had started out more willing to "move around" and have shallower bonds with others, the other girls wouldn't be so put off by her. However, even then there wouldn't be a guarantee that she would eventually find that deep friendship bond she's hoping for.

I wonder if DD could try to approach that's similar to "it's not you, it's me" kind of break up in order to soften the blow and provide constructive feedback to AG.

"AG, I like to socialize with a lot of different people and be more outgoing, and I get the impression that you like to have a small really close group -- that's OK but it's just not my thing. I'm sure there are lots of other people who might want that kind of friendship, but I don't feel as close to you as you seem to feel toward me. I hope you understand, and find someone who shares your desire for a deeper friendship. I just want to let you know that for Prom, I'll see you there, but I'm not going to hang out with you exclusively."

I really like this post. All of it.

Also, sorry for missing the part about dinner at the prom.

gen xer

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #129 on: March 27, 2013, 05:18:49 PM »

While I understand your DD wants to enjoy the night with her friends and I support her in using polite phrases to try and separate herself from AG at the dance I would probably not encourage her to confront this girl prior to the event - this would mean that she and her friends were making assumptions about what AG's behavior will be (even if they are backed with experience!) and might come off as being cliquey.

I agree with this - I think I said earlier that preparing privately for having to deal with AG is one thing but confronting her beforehand is a bit of overkill.  I realize AG may not be the most perceptive of people but think how hurtful it could be to AG if it dawns on her that everyone has been stewing over how best to make sure she doesn't ruin their evening with her presence.

If it were me I would be mortified and offended beyond belief if I was essentially told before an event that others were already planning how best to avoid me.  This isn't to say she should endure intrusive behaviour - she should not.....but this "be cruel to be kind" advice is presumptive and kind of patronizing.  No gentle tone would ever make me feel better about someone telling me in advance "Just so you know I have no intention of associating with you at this event - I thought you should know so you don't get any ideas"  I know that is not how she would say it....but that is how it would come off.

OP I do not mean to imply that your DD and her friends are cruel - I know that if she is agonizing over this she is just the opposite - kind and sensitive. IMHO I just think it is one of those potential ( OK probable )situations that would be more gracefully handled if and when it arises.

Bijou

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #130 on: March 27, 2013, 05:24:19 PM »
I think your daughter is going to have to decide if she wants to be miserable or hurt AG's feelings. It doesn't sound like there is going to be any middle ground with this girl. From your explanation of the previous dance it sounds like AG will spend the night latched onto your DD if given the chance, so either your DD has to handle it now or then.
This situation really does call on a deeper self.  It's not like someone copying your dress style or something like that.  This is The prom.  The big deal.  Not only is it the main subject of conversation around school before it happens but also after it happens, probably for weeks.  I would invite the girl along, have fun anyway and feel better for it now and later.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 05:26:49 PM by Bijou »
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kansha

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #131 on: March 27, 2013, 05:27:06 PM »
I think your daughter is going to have to decide if she wants to be miserable or hurt AG's feelings. It doesn't sound like there is going to be any middle ground with this girl. From your explanation of the previous dance it sounds like AG will spend the night latched onto your DD if given the chance, so either your DD has to handle it now or then.
This situation really does call on a deeper self.  It's not like someone copying your dress style or something like that.  This is The prom.  The big deal.  Not only is it the main subject of conversation around school before it happens but also after it happens, probably for weeks.  I would invite the girl along, have fun anyway and feel better for it.
would your answer be the same if instead of 'AG' it was a guy trying to monopolize the OP's DD at prom? 

why is it the OP's DD's 'job' to make sure another student has a good time at their once-in-a-lifetime event, at the cost of her own enjoyment?

Sophia

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #132 on: March 27, 2013, 05:29:53 PM »
I don't think the wedding or party analogy works for this situation.  I think an Event where you pay money to attend would be a better analogy.  For example, Shakespeare in the Park.  People often go in groups.  Share a blanket and refreshments.  Talk mostly with each other.  But, sometimes with people nearby and wander off to talk to other people.  AG is someone that just invites herself to your blanket and plops down. 
Then you add in that Prom is an Expensive Event.  As a teenager, Prom was as big of a deal as a week's vacation is today.  Maybe more so.  There is NO way I'd let AG cling to me. 

Shoo

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #133 on: March 27, 2013, 05:30:54 PM »
I think your daughter is going to have to decide if she wants to be miserable or hurt AG's feelings. It doesn't sound like there is going to be any middle ground with this girl. From your explanation of the previous dance it sounds like AG will spend the night latched onto your DD if given the chance, so either your DD has to handle it now or then.
This situation really does call on a deeper self.  It's not like someone copying your dress style or something like that.  This is The prom.  The big deal.  Not only is it the main subject of conversation around school before it happens but also after it happens, probably for weeks.  I would invite the girl along, have fun anyway and feel better for it. 

I have to agree.  It's not just your daughter's prom, OP.  It's AG's too.  It's not a private event, it's for everyone.  If your daughter and her friends don't want to include her in the build-up to the prom, that's fine.  That's the easy part.  The hard part is AT the prom, where AG has the right to enjoy herself, too.  She doesn't get to bother other people, like she did at Homecoming, so if she starts to do that, your daughter needs to speak up THEN.  Not before.  That's presumptuous and not very charitable.  But to pre-emptively ruin the prom for AG when your daughter doesn't even know for sure there is going to be an issue would be kind of cruel, IMO.

If there's a problem, your daughter should deal with it when it happens.  And please remind her that a little kindness goes a long way.  Your daughter is very lucky to have a group of friends she can count on to hang with at momentous events like prom.  Apparently, AG is not so lucky. 

Bijou

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #134 on: March 27, 2013, 05:36:05 PM »
I think your daughter is going to have to decide if she wants to be miserable or hurt AG's feelings. It doesn't sound like there is going to be any middle ground with this girl. From your explanation of the previous dance it sounds like AG will spend the night latched onto your DD if given the chance, so either your DD has to handle it now or then.
This situation really does call on a deeper self.  It's not like someone copying your dress style or something like that.  This is The prom.  The big deal.  Not only is it the main subject of conversation around school before it happens but also after it happens, probably for weeks.  I would invite the girl along, have fun anyway and feel better for it.
would your answer be the same if instead of 'AG' it was a guy trying to monopolize the OP's DD at prom? 

why is it the OP's DD's 'job' to make sure another student has a good time at their once-in-a-lifetime event, at the cost of her own enjoyment?
Regarding if the AG were a guy, no, my answer would not be the same because that situation is not the same.

I didn't say it was her job to make AG have a good time.  I said, "I would invite the girl along..."  I am speaking for myself,  putting in the perspective of how I would handle the situation. 
I've never knitted anything I could recognize when it was finished.  Actually, I've never finished anything, much to my family's relief.