Author Topic: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE #87,#173**  (Read 36709 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

PrettySticks

  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #135 on: March 27, 2013, 06:03:04 PM »
I guess my issue lies with the thinking that DD needs to be straightforward, because people like AG don't take hints.  Except... I'm not sure I see where AG was given any hints.  If DD didn't say anything to her at Homecoming when this happened (which I certainly don't blame her for, because that's not exactly easy), then AG probably just thinks they hung out together at Homecoming.  (I wouldn't necessarily call the "running away" a hint, because as I recall we were all always sprinting off on one direction or another at dances - when they played a song I liked and I had to dance rightthen, or my best friend saw that boy she liked was finally standing alone, etc.)

I would also bet that AG is following someone's advice.  OP says that the two girls never see each other outside of school, but what if AG is saying to someone (mother, therapist, guidance counselor) "DD is so nice in class. I wish we hung out more outside of school."  That adult is going to give her advice to get to know DD like: "If you share a class, try to partner up with her"(Spanish) or "If you know you'll both be at an event, hang out with her there" (Homecoming).  And if DD is being nice, as it would seem she is, then AG probably thinks she's making progress. 

Count me amongst those that feel for both girls, because neither side is fun.

EMuir

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1396
Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #136 on: March 27, 2013, 06:11:55 PM »
If AG was a guy my response would be the same, just deal with any annoying behaviors at the time.  If AG clings, DD needs to point out that she wants to mingle and talk to different people.    If DD has to get to the point where she has to tell AG she wants to spend some time without her at the prom, then that will happen and AG will deal. 

Your DD shouldn't think of talking to AG as "ruining" anything.  It's unwise to think of any event as one that can be ruined by one small thing or you'll just go through life with every event "ruined" and not enjoying yourself.  Tell your DD to look at how the others are treating AG with subtle body language and mirror that. 

For some reason I'm reminded of kittens.  If one kitten plays too rough the other kittens refuse to play with that one until s/he learns manners.  That feedback is important.  If the other kittens don't teach the rough kitten, that kitten can grow up not knowing rough play is bad, and someday run into a bigger cat that might really hurt it.   

And there's nothing wrong with having a clique! This reminds me of the geek social fallacies (one version at http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html). 


LazyDaisy

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1072
Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #137 on: March 27, 2013, 06:18:27 PM »
I think your daughter is going to have to decide if she wants to be miserable or hurt AG's feelings. It doesn't sound like there is going to be any middle ground with this girl. From your explanation of the previous dance it sounds like AG will spend the night latched onto your DD if given the chance, so either your DD has to handle it now or then.
This situation really does call on a deeper self.  It's not like someone copying your dress style or something like that.  This is The prom.  The big deal.  Not only is it the main subject of conversation around school before it happens but also after it happens, probably for weeks.  I would invite the girl along, have fun anyway and feel better for it. 

I have to agree.  It's not just your daughter's prom, OP.  It's AG's too.  It's not a private event, it's for everyone.  If your daughter and her friends don't want to include her in the build-up to the prom, that's fine.  That's the easy part.  The hard part is AT the prom, where AG has the right to enjoy herself, too.  She doesn't get to bother other people, like she did at Homecoming, so if she starts to do that, your daughter needs to speak up THEN.  Not before.  That's presumptuous and not very charitable. But to pre-emptively ruin the prom for AG when your daughter doesn't even know for sure there is going to be an issue would be kind of cruel, IMO.

If there's a problem, your daughter should deal with it when it happens.  And please remind her that a little kindness goes a long way.  Your daughter is very lucky to have a group of friends she can count on to hang with at momentous events like prom.  Apparently, AG is not so lucky.
I don't think it's presumptive or pre-emptive to let AG know, since she is trying to plan a group with DD, that the group AG has theoretically put together isn't going to happen. DD needs to let AG know in advance that she won't be joining her so that AG can make other arrangements. Think of it like an RSVP to the "invitation" to form a group. I don't think DD can speak for the other two girls that AG has included though, just herself.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." Douglas Adams

Judah

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4769
  • California, U.S.A
Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #138 on: March 27, 2013, 06:19:30 PM »
I think your daughter is going to have to decide if she wants to be miserable or hurt AG's feelings. It doesn't sound like there is going to be any middle ground with this girl. From your explanation of the previous dance it sounds like AG will spend the night latched onto your DD if given the chance, so either your DD has to handle it now or then.
This situation really does call on a deeper self.  It's not like someone copying your dress style or something like that.  This is The prom.  The big deal.  Not only is it the main subject of conversation around school before it happens but also after it happens, probably for weeks.  I would invite the girl along, have fun anyway and feel better for it. 

I agree that this an important event in a teen's life. It is The prom.  The big deal. It's also very expensive.  I think prom tickets last year were $120 per person last year and that didn't include dinner.  Which is why OP's DD should get to have a good time and not have to worry about AG trying to monopolize her time and then feeling guilty because she doesn't want to hurt AG. 
Ask for what you want. Let's be clear on this one:
Subtle hints don't work.
Strong hints don't work.
Really obvious hints don't work.
Just say it!

-The Car Talk Guys

WillyNilly

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 7490
  • Mmmmm, food
    • The World as I Taste It
Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #139 on: March 27, 2013, 06:22:55 PM »
^ my prom was 19 years ago and it cost $110 per person.

Shoo

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 16393
Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #140 on: March 27, 2013, 06:25:10 PM »
Personally, I think the OP's daughter would have fonder memories of The Prom if she didn't carry with her the memory of how she and her friends actively worked to exclude one poor girl who was desperate to find a group to hang with.  That's just kind of how I feel about it.  The years go by and I know that I, personally, have regrets about how I treated some people when I was that age.  I wish I didn't have to live with that.

redboothe

  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #141 on: March 27, 2013, 07:02:36 PM »
I want to second Shoo's comment - I know Prom feels like a huge deal when you are in high school but when you are older and have some more perspective on these situations I think your memories of the kind of person you were will mean more than the event its self.

I was something of an awkward teenager and I remember feeling like I was an outsider, or an unwanted interloper - even as I grew into a successful, confident adult this feeling remained with me and I look back on my university years and can see a lot of experiences and opportunities I missed out on because I was afraid I would be made to feel like that again (I quit a varsity rowing program because I was the new girl and I was afraid the vets didn't like me!) I also grew up with a brother who was the epitome of cool - captain of all the sports team, an international model, the smartest kid around - and even though he was two years older than me I remember him making a point to include me in things, to watch out for me at parties and bring me into conversation if I looked lost, to make me feel welcome and accepted. When I gave a speech at his wedding I thanked him for making me feel cool - as a 16 year old it meant the world to me.

Those stories don't have a lot to do with etiquette, I realize that, and I do think it is both polite and reasonable for your DD to prepare herself with some polite phrases she can use during the night to help make some space should AG be clinging too tightly but I really do want to caution against telling this girl outright that she is not wanted around at all or making her feel unwelcome or avoided. I think erring on the side of inclusivity and kindness is always best and that in the long run it will likely yield the most positive outcome, both for AG and for your daughter.

wolfie

  • I don't know what this is so I am putting random words here
  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 7361
Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #142 on: March 27, 2013, 07:11:00 PM »
Personally, I think the OP's daughter would have fonder memories of The Prom if she didn't carry with her the memory of how she and her friends actively worked to exclude one poor girl who was desperate to find a group to hang with.  That's just kind of how I feel about it.  The years go by and I know that I, personally, have regrets about how I treated some people when I was that age.  I wish I didn't have to live with that.

I think she would have fonder memories of the prom if she didn't have memories of one girl who couldn't be bothered with her any other day of the week and only used OP's daughter when it was convenient for her turning the entire event to be about her.

It really goes both ways and I don't like the insinuation that if the OP's daughter doesn't roll over and turn into a doormat she is not a good or nice person.

Sharnita

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 21689
Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #143 on: March 27, 2013, 07:15:07 PM »
I think there is probably a pretty different view on what one has to do to avoid being a doormat. I think that DD could avoid it without saying anything overt (or asking adults to do so).

Eeep!

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 879
Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #144 on: March 27, 2013, 07:22:31 PM »
Personally, I think the OP's daughter would have fonder memories of The Prom if she didn't carry with her the memory of how she and her friends actively worked to exclude one poor girl who was desperate to find a group to hang with.  That's just kind of how I feel about it.  The years go by and I know that I, personally, have regrets about how I treated some people when I was that age.  I wish I didn't have to live with that.

I think she would have fonder memories of the prom if she didn't have memories of one girl who couldn't be bothered with her any other day of the week and only used OP's daughter when it was convenient for her turning the entire event to be about her.

It really goes both ways and I don't like the insinuation that if the OP's daughter doesn't roll over and turn into a doormat she is not a good or nice person.

I agree with this. The fact is that groups of friends develop a sort of short hand/way of speaking that people that don't regularly hang out with them aren't a part of.  Adding someone new to the mix can change the whole feeling of the evening. You have to explain things, you avoid certain inside jokes so you aren't rude, you try not to talk about things the other person knows nothing about. All of that makes for a different type of evening. It just does. On top of that, it sounds like AG isn't the type to just sit there quietly.  It really sounds like an evening with her there would be very different than an evening without her there. (And by "without" her I don't mean that they are to act like she doesn't exist at all or shun her at the event or similar rude behavior, just that she isn't included in the core plans.)

And I think it is worth reminding people that AG started this whole thing by essentially inviting herself into OP's daughters plans.  This isn't a group of people who sat around and decided that they didn't like someone and are plotting a way to exclude her.  So when people are suggesting that she talk to AG prior to the event, it is essentially as a delayed response/clarification to that original conversation.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

rose red

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 7932
Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #145 on: March 27, 2013, 07:23:39 PM »
What bothers me is that AG is not just some socially awkward girl.  She cheated off the OP's DD.  She clings and chases DD and I suspect it's because she knows DD doesn't like to hurt people.  Past actions matter.  She sounds like a user.  Maybe due to desperation of wanting a friend, but still a user.

The OP said her DD and her group have no problem with mingling, that the problem is the clinging and chasing.  I actually think it's a kindness to let AG know ahead of time that she plans on spending this last dance with her friends and AG should plan to mingle with different groups in addition to theirs.

This is coming from someone who was friendless and socially awkward in school.

Sharnita

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 21689
Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #146 on: March 27, 2013, 07:33:09 PM »
Actually, I think DD'd response to the cheating shows that she can make her boundaries evident without being rude or even too blunt.  AG did get the point and yet they did not have a "scene".

LazyDaisy

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1072
Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #147 on: March 27, 2013, 07:33:52 PM »
Building resentment will not leave OP's DD or the other girls with pleasant memories of Prom or this girl. It doesn't do anyone any favors to create a lasting impression that DD's feelings are inconsequential, and that AG's feelings are more important. And on the opposite side, AG deserves a friend who truly appreciates that kind of closeness, but she'll never find it if she continues to believe she already has it with DD.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." Douglas Adams

*inviteseller

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1821
  • I am Queen Mommy
Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #148 on: March 27, 2013, 07:37:23 PM »
But why should the DD and her close group of friends have to share their prom, the last big event for them all to share before they graduate and go off to their separate colleges and lives just because this girl is socially awkward?  The AG has not shown herself to be a friend to the DD by trying to cheat off of her on numerous occasions and dropping the ball on group projects, and the homecoming behavior was just so out there.  Again, it is NOT the DD's or her friends problem that this girl has no friends and wants to be theirs.  She is not, and again, it does this girl absolutely no favors to treat her as such out of pity.  No one should be required to suck it up and be with someone they don't want to be with just for the fact that this girl has dreams of grandeur about their supposed friendship.  That is not being nice, that is being a doormat.  The sooner AG knows she has to make other plans, the better it will be, and yes, no matter how DD says it, it will cause hurt feelings, but it is better to be let down before the prom so she can find other plans that at the prom when every ones prom gets ruined.  If I was told to just be friends and play nice for the sake of another ones feelings at the detriment of my own, I would only feel resentment.  DD and her friends should not feel guilty because this girl is not their friend, it is not their fault she has no other plans.

Sharnita

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 21689
Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #149 on: March 27, 2013, 07:39:13 PM »
But why should the DD and her close group of friends have to share their prom, the last big event for them all to share before they graduate and go off to their separate colleges and lives just because this girl is socially awkward?  The AG has not shown herself to be a friend to the DD by trying to cheat off of her on numerous occasions and dropping the ball on group projects, and the homecoming behavior was just so out there.  Again, it is NOT the DD's or her friends problem that this girl has no friends and wants to be theirs.  She is not, and again, it does this girl absolutely no favors to treat her as such out of pity.  No one should be required to suck it up and be with someone they don't want to be with just for the fact that this girl has dreams of grandeur about their supposed friendship.  That is not being nice, that is being a doormat.  The sooner AG knows she has to make other plans, the better it will be, and yes, no matter how DD says it, it will cause hurt feelings, but it is better to be let down before the prom so she can find other plans that at the prom when every ones prom gets ruined.  If I was told to just be friends and play nice for the sake of another ones feelings at the detriment of my own, I would only feel resentment.  DD and her friends should not feel guilty because this girl is not their friend, it is not their fault she has no other plans.

That isn't why they have to share "their" prom.  They have to share it because it is also "her" prom. And one of the precepts is that you do some socializing with various guests, not just your closest friends.