Author Topic: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE #87,#173**  (Read 31374 times)

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Rusty

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #150 on: March 27, 2013, 07:44:30 PM »
If nothing is said to this girl before the Prom, you can take it as a guarantee that her behaviour will be the same as at the Homecoming.   Your DD has set a precedent for this girl, she knows your DD "will look after her".   She is probably terrified of attending the event friendless and your DD is her backstop.

If your DD does not want a repeat of the Homecoming she will have to deal with it now.   

Whether or not is is kind or decent is not the issue.  Your DD does not want a repeat of Homecoming so she will have to say something and the sooner the better as at least then the girl may be able to come up with an alternative plan than "chasing DD all over".   

We have all seen or had experiences of socially awkward people in our lives, sometimes you can just grin and bear it, but for a special event like this I think it would be better to act now rather than risk DD's special night being ruined and you hearing about it for years to come.

Firecat

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #151 on: March 27, 2013, 07:53:58 PM »
But why should the DD and her close group of friends have to share their prom, the last big event for them all to share before they graduate and go off to their separate colleges and lives just because this girl is socially awkward?  The AG has not shown herself to be a friend to the DD by trying to cheat off of her on numerous occasions and dropping the ball on group projects, and the homecoming behavior was just so out there.  Again, it is NOT the DD's or her friends problem that this girl has no friends and wants to be theirs.  She is not, and again, it does this girl absolutely no favors to treat her as such out of pity.  No one should be required to suck it up and be with someone they don't want to be with just for the fact that this girl has dreams of grandeur about their supposed friendship.  That is not being nice, that is being a doormat.  The sooner AG knows she has to make other plans, the better it will be, and yes, no matter how DD says it, it will cause hurt feelings, but it is better to be let down before the prom so she can find other plans that at the prom when every ones prom gets ruined.  If I was told to just be friends and play nice for the sake of another ones feelings at the detriment of my own, I would only feel resentment.  DD and her friends should not feel guilty because this girl is not their friend, it is not their fault she has no other plans.

That isn't why they have to share "their" prom.  They have to share it because it is also "her" prom. And one of the precepts is that you do some socializing with various guests, not just your closest friends.

Some socializing is one thing. But based on the experience at Homecoming, that's not what AG is going to be expecting.

And I don't think it's rude or presumptuous to draw the conclusion that someone's behavior is going to be similar at similar events (or why are so many posters in the blog post about the tea party guest being supportive of the OP not inviting H to this year's party)? To me, AG's clinging to DD at Homecoming is every bit as predictive as the rude guest's behavior at the tea party, if not as extreme.

I kind of think that you teach people how to treat you, and you teach people how you're likely to behave. And AG has been, in my opinion, pretty loud and clear on this topic. So I think DD has a reasonable basis to be apprehensive. And I also think that DD is exceptionally kind and sweet to be worried about AG's feelings at all.

That doesn't mean I don't feel for AG. It feels awful to be socially awkward and on the outside, and it's very hurtful to find that someone you consider a friend just doesn't share the feeling. No matter how nice they are about it.

So no, I don't think that DD needs to include AG in her group...and I think that she should tell AG in advance that AG isn't going to be included in the limo or with DD's group at the dinner.

Kindness is a wonderful thing, but I don't think it needs to extend to DD gritting her teeth at not being able to pry AG off of her with a crowbar...again. Granted, I am not a person who handles "clingy" well. Any clear indication of someone exhibiting "clingy" behavior with me is going to have me running the opposite direction, because I just can't handle it. I try to just be very "busy" in general, and elusive at larger events when dealing with someone like that...but there have been times when I've really wished that someone had told them earlier in life to just back off a little bit, already.

Sharnita

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #152 on: March 27, 2013, 08:08:12 PM »
I don't  think that the limo is an issue period. OP has said pretty much from the beginning that wasn't the problem so I don't think we need to worry about it at this point.  As far as dinner - if there is a table and once the group is seated there are one, two, three seats left I don't think OP (or anyone) is entitled to tell people they can't sit in those seats if they choose.  They only paid for one prom ticket, that only gives them control over the seats they are filling, not any empty seats at their table.  If they are telling some people they are welcome and some they are not then they do come off as setting themselves above other attendees.

Slartibartfast

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #153 on: March 27, 2013, 08:14:35 PM »
Why does she have to do anything pre-emptively?  If AG doesn't say anything ahead of time and isn't trying to hone on on the limo, your daughter and her friends can just deal with issues as they arise:

- if AG tries to sit right next to DD and monopolize her during the dinner, have DD and a friend be prepared to switch places as soon as AG sits down (or better yet, arrange for DD and the other dateless (date-free?) girls to sit in the middle of their group so there aren't any empty chairs next to them).

- if AG tries to chase after your DD again, your DD can be more blunt while it's happening: "AG, I'm headed over to talk with someone else.  I'll see you later!"

- if AG does make some comment wanting your DD to commit to spending the dance with her, your DD can politely pass the buck "Gosh, AG, I've already got a group and I'm not the one making the arrangements.  I'm sure I'll see you there, but I'm making plans with this group.  I hope you enjoy the dance, though!"

It doesn't take any more confrontation to address it during the dance than it would take to do it beforehand, and it has the benefit of not requiring your DD to plan out all the worst-case scenarios and prepare battle plans for them.

LeveeWoman

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #154 on: March 27, 2013, 08:25:15 PM »
This is not  a hosted event during which people must socialize with others as they would if someone else were paying for their dinners.

Mammavan3

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #155 on: March 27, 2013, 08:45:40 PM »
I know this is a stressful situation for your DD and you, but I just wanted to point out that, were your DD a different kind of person, she would just tell AG to bug off and be done with it. It is her kind heart that makes this difficult. However, she's a bright girl and will in time learn how to extract herself gracefully without hurting the other person. OTOH, it is much harder for uncaring people to learn empathy and caring.

The thought and worry that you're putting into her response speaks well for both of you.

Bijou

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #156 on: March 27, 2013, 09:11:31 PM »
Personally, I think the OP's daughter would have fonder memories of The Prom if she didn't carry with her the memory of how she and her friends actively worked to exclude one poor girl who was desperate to find a group to hang with.  That's just kind of how I feel about it.  The years go by and I know that I, personally, have regrets about how I treated some people when I was that age.  I wish I didn't have to live with that.
Exactly, exactly how I feel about it.  I, too, have regrets about how I treated some people at that age and I wish I could do it over. 
I've never knitted anything I could recognize when it was finished.  Actually, I've never finished anything, much to my family's relief.

LeveeWoman

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #157 on: March 27, 2013, 09:16:53 PM »
Joraemi's daughter has not done anything to AG. To the contrary, AG has intruded on her time and space, has trod upon several boundaries. By giving in and allowing AG to, once again, behave inappropriately, Joraemi's daughter will be sanctioning that behavior, and she will allow her prom to be about AG instead of about her own enjoyment.

Shoo

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #158 on: March 27, 2013, 09:19:32 PM »
Joraemi's daughter has not done anything to AG. To the contrary, AG has intruded on her time and space, has trod upon several boundaries. By giving in and allowing AG to, once again, behave inappropriately, Joraemi's daughter will be sanctioning that behavior, and she will allow her prom to be about AG instead of about her own enjoyment.

But AG hasn't DONE anything yet.  Several of us have said that if and when she does -- at the prom -- that is the time for the OP's daughter to do something about it.  Not pre-emptively, because that would be presumptuous.  The OP has said the pre-prom activities are not going to be a problem.

gramma dishes

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #159 on: March 27, 2013, 09:24:50 PM »
Joraemi's daughter has not done anything to AG. To the contrary, AG has intruded on her time and space, has trod upon several boundaries. By giving in and allowing AG to, once again, behave inappropriately, Joraemi's daughter will be sanctioning that behavior, and she will allow her prom to be about AG instead of about her own enjoyment.

This. 

I think DD should be highly commended for being so thoughtful about how to handle this and not wishing to hurt AG's feelings.  But LeveeWoman is absolutely right.  AG has NOT concerned herself with DD's feelings at all.  Quite the contrary.  She's quite willing to make this event all about her and what she wants and how she would like it to proceed.


Certainly I'm not advocating rudeness or gross insensitivity, but I think DD should absolutely have the right to experience her prom with her friends as planned without feeling she has to put AG's feelings above her own.  AG is NOT the more important girl here.  Neither is more or less important than the other, but one should not have to sacrifice her own good time at a once in a lifetime important event just to coddle the other one.

snowdragon

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #160 on: March 27, 2013, 09:32:04 PM »
Joraemi's daughter has not done anything to AG. To the contrary, AG has intruded on her time and space, has trod upon several boundaries. By giving in and allowing AG to, once again, behave inappropriately, Joraemi's daughter will be sanctioning that behavior, and she will allow her prom to be about AG instead of about her own enjoyment.

But AG hasn't DONE anything yet.  Several of us have said that if and when she does -- at the prom -- that is the time for the OP's daughter to do something about it.  Not pre-emptively, because that would be presumptuous.  The OP has said the pre-prom activities are not going to be a problem.

But sparing her the public humiliation of being told AT the prom that the person she most wants to spend it with - does not want her around, would be a great kindness to AG, IMHO.
 

rose red

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #161 on: March 27, 2013, 09:38:36 PM »
I don't see it as doing something pre-emptively.  She's has already done something.  She invited herself, and not by asking but stating as fact. 

AG: Do you have a date yet?
DD: No.
AG: Perfect! Neither do I, so it'll just be me, you, AG1, and AG2. (AG1 and AG2 are not part of the group either....)
DD:(managed to not have jaw hit floor....) I suppose their will be other people at the dance that don't have dates.  ***makes escape***

citadelle

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #162 on: March 27, 2013, 09:42:28 PM »
Thinking back on my own school days, I'm honestly getting confused about DD's social obligations to AG. I'm picturing that when AG strolls up to DD and her friends, DD feels obligated to include AG in the conversation, to make extensive replies to her comments, etc.. And I'm wondering if this gives the impression of friendliness and inclusion to AG, when that's not really what DD wants to convey.

Would it be rude if DD and her friends did not make an effort to include AG in the conversation, even if she was standing right there? (having joined them of her own accord) If AG said something, would it be rude for the others to be like, "Oh. Hmm," then go back to their own conversation?

I ask because I feel like this was considered the "nice" way of rejecting someone when I was in school, and it seemed to be fairly effective. But, I'm having trouble figuring out if it's actually rude, or not.

Isn't ignoring someone like that a classic variation of "girl bullying"? I imagine that is how it would feel to the one being ignored.

As a teacher of middle school, I hear and see a lot. We are expected to address bullying seriously. Many times, what a "victim"perceives as bullying, a "perpetrator" perceives as drawing boundaries.

I have read many sad tales on this site about experiences of being bullied. There are always two sides to a story (and I am obviously not referring to any physical bullying).

As a teacher, if OP's daughter came to me asking for help keeping AG away from her at prom, I would probably refer her to the guidance counselor. I would  probably also feel really badly for AG.

jedikaiti

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #163 on: March 27, 2013, 09:49:46 PM »
I don't  think that the limo is an issue period. OP has said pretty much from the beginning that wasn't the problem so I don't think we need to worry about it at this point.  As far as dinner - if there is a table and once the group is seated there are one, two, three seats left I don't think OP (or anyone) is entitled to tell people they can't sit in those seats if they choose.  They only paid for one prom ticket, that only gives them control over the seats they are filling, not any empty seats at their table.  If they are telling some people they are welcome and some they are not then they do come off as setting themselves above other attendees.

That's not the problem at all. It's that, based on past experience, AG seems very very likely to try to super-glue herself to DD. Not socializing, monopolizing. As in must be there, holding or trying to get DD's attention the entire time, and preventing her from socializing with anyone else.

AG is welcome to dine and sit wherever she chooses, within the guidelines and rules of the establishment and event (in this case, Prom). What she is NOT welcome to do is glom on to someone else and dominate their entire evening. Since past history and recent conversation indicates that is very likely, that makes pre-emptive action not a bad idea. Because DD wants to be able to socialize with more than just AG.

Joraemi's daughter has not done anything to AG. To the contrary, AG has intruded on her time and space, has trod upon several boundaries. By giving in and allowing AG to, once again, behave inappropriately, Joraemi's daughter will be sanctioning that behavior, and she will allow her prom to be about AG instead of about her own enjoyment.

But AG hasn't DONE anything yet.  Several of us have said that if and when she does -- at the prom -- that is the time for the OP's daughter to do something about it.  Not pre-emptively, because that would be presumptuous.  The OP has said the pre-prom activities are not going to be a problem.

I disagree. One, it seems VERY likely that there will be a problem, and the heat of the moment is usually not the best time to handle things in a calm, polite manner. Two, AG seems to be under the impression that she will get to spend much or all of Prom with DD & Co, and would you rather find out that your plans aren't going to work in advance, or after they're already underway? I see great potential for a huge crying scene at Prom if something isn't said in advance.
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johelenc1

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Re: Prom Cling-on**UPDATE**
« Reply #164 on: March 27, 2013, 09:54:44 PM »
I don't know any teenager - then or now - that would invite someone who wasn't their friend to be apart of their group at prom just to be nice.   Ok, I'm sure that somewhere, some selfless teen as done so, but really, it's not something that happens.  Nor, frankly, should it.

Prom is certainly a rite of passage of high school.  BUT, it is not a RIGHT.  One does not have to go to prom.  Most kids want to, but that doesn't mean they get to.  The cost may be too much, one may not have a date, one may not have any friends, and/or one may not want to go completely alone.  All that is sad, but, honestly, just too bad.

Where I grew up, the prom was for juniors and seniors.  So, potentially, you could go both years.  And, actually, since a junior or senior could take anyone, you could potentially go 4 or 5 years to the prom.   I, oddly enough since I was generally a bit of a misfit, went to several proms.  I went to another school's prom as a date when I was a freshman.  I went to my junior prom with a long-time family friend.  I went to a another school's prom with a good friend our senior year and to my own senior prom alone.  I did go to another senior prom with a guy who liked me.  That was my "good deed".  I went with him so he could go to his prom.  However, nice as I was, I would have never taken someone I didn't like to my own prom just to be nice to them.  I don't know anyone who would have.

Also observed at these 5 proms I attended, it was nothing like the group love mixer some posters are described.   There was generally fairly little mixing between groups.  You hung out with the group you came with or your closest friends that you met up with after dinner.  (Dinner was separate and generally done as a pair or as a double date).  You may say hello to others or chat briefly but in general everyone was enjoying being with their own crowd.  Frankly, there really wasn't any room for a lone prom goer to insert herself into any given group.  (When I went by myself, I didn't even try.  I respected my friends with their dates too much.  I just wanted to go for a short time.)

I don't see any reason why the OP's DD needs to invite AG to crash her party, either directly or indirectly. Sure, it's sad AG may not go to prom, but that is very much not the OP's DD's problem. 
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 10:00:24 PM by johelenc1 »