ummm, you DO understand the meaning of "confidential"...right?!

[Sandi Papaya]

Last night, I went out for dinner with my "girls" - present and former employees of the office I used to work at. One of my good friends (a present clerk) invited one of the other girls she still works with, and with whom I used to work before I got a promotion. She's known for being a bit on the quirky side, a little socially awkward but nice on the whole. She hadn't seen me since I left the old office, so because I'd had my accident and she hadn't seen me in a while, she wanted to come along. Fine, the more the merrier. She used to drive me a little nuts at work, but on a personal level she was nice - if a little quirky.

We were discussing the new class of trainees who have just moved into the office where I work - I will be (re)training with them, since my "on the job training" a season earlier was interrupted by The Accident. Two of those people are former clerks we were also close to. When I mentioned the name of one of the trainees, our odd one out exclaimed, "Oh! She's one of our confidential cases." In the middle of a crowded restaurant. On a Friday night, where any (or many!) of our several hundred coworkers could have been present.

I work in an environment where confidentiality is integral to everything we do. "Confidential" cases are cases not kept in the same district office as the district where the person lives (or works), because they are either current or former employees, are family members or friends of employees, etc. There is usually a special worker assigned to these caseloads.

This person is a temporary clerk, and was the dining companion of someone who has a confidential case somewhere in the district (I couldn't tell you where, even if I knew!), along with two permanent employees of our workplace. I'm not sure what the confidentiality provisions are for temporary employees, but permanent employees are required to sign a confidentiality agreement and adhere to those provisions or risk termination and other, pretty heavy penalties.

She's lucky she was among people who aren't backstabbing bigmouths, but I did point out to her later, somewhat privately, that she needed to be careful about saying things like that in public. I told her she had nothing to fear from any of us who were there, but to consider the venue and who could be in hearing range.

I'm afraid I left her a little worried about her job, but I assured her that at least from me and from the other current employee in our company she had nothing to fear. I know other coworkers who would betray her at the drop of a hat and cost her her job, but I'm not one of those. I didn't mean to hurt her feelings, but at the same time, I felt it was important for her to remember she was out in public and should definitely not be bringing up something like that as a topic of conversation in a public place, no matter how crowded. Not to be paranoid, but you just never know who's around. And "confidential" means you do not discuss something. At all. I do not discuss anything related to my cases outside of work. Period. The consequences are too great.

[MadMadge43]

What you did was right. This could loosely be considered cognitive dissonance. One of my favorite terms. It's literal term is when you learn new information that changes the way you see things (sometimes it makes your head hurt). But I would consider this social cognitive dissonance, when you think you are behaving just fine and someone points out to you the errors of your ways, even in the nicest way, is going to cause a little bit of this feeling. It's OK, everyone goes through it and makes us all better people.

I think you did just fine and if she's even a halfway decent person, she'll eventually appreciate what you did for her.

[Sandi Papaya]

I know she meant no harm, and I didn't mean to make her worry excessively (she tends to be a bit of a worrywart, but so was I when I was a clerk). She's one of those people who very much "sweats the small stuff," and despite the fact that she's older than me by a couple of years, she seems a little naïve and sheltered, though no less nice for it.

Seriously, I meant her no harm by pointing it out to her - it was a sudden exclamation on her part. But I know how those little thoughtless things can come back to bite you, so I warned her. In Spanish. Once we were away from the restaurant.

We did spend quite a bit of time tearing apart co-workers, but we do that on a plenty regular basis outside the office anyway. She's now the clerk for some co-workers who used to be in my unit, in particular one lady who thinks she's funny but is just...I'm not sure if "insipid" or "thoroughly annoying" is the word/phrase to use here. She was a pain in my behind when she was in my unit. I don't blame the new clerk for not liking her one bit!

[Lisbeth]

I think speaking up was the right thing to do if you didn't come across as threatening her job.  A warning like "Jane, we're outside the office in public, so I think being careful about confidential subjects is essential" is perfectly reasonable and even necessary.  On the other hand, something like "Jane, you could get fired for discussing confidential matters away from the office" would probably be too off-putting.

[Sandi Papaya]

Oh no...threatening her job was in no way my intent. I love her dearly, but I'm not a supervisor or anything like that, so I let her know she was safe in my company, but just to be careful around whom she made comments of that nature, especially out in public. Even if I do attain a supervisor position (which isn't my eventual goal, but could happen), I wouldn't rat her out. I don't engage in politics of the personal sort, such as family or office politics, because I hate that.

Being in the position I'm in now, though, I'm still under a bit of scrutiny, so I am extremely careful not to say a lot about my job in public, because you never know who in your surroundings might be employed by my organization. While I'm not paranoid, I don't trust everyone, either. I'm pretty well-known in my organization and fairly well-respected (much more than I was in my former position), and in my organization, reputation is pretty much everything. I'd hate to see her reputation tarnished for a small slip-up in public that could hurt her future chances for promotion within our organization, if she plans to stay and apply for a permanent position. I've seen it happen, and it's not pretty.

[hobish]

I'm afraid I left her a little worried about her job, but I assured her that at least from me and from the other current employee in our company she had nothing to fear. I know other coworkers who would betray her at the drop of a hat and cost her her job, but I'm not one of those. I didn't mean to hurt her feelings, but at the same time, I felt it was important for her to remember she was out in public and should definitely not be bringing up something like that as a topic of conversation in a public place, no matter how crowded. Not to be paranoid, but you just never know who's around. And "confidential" means you do not discuss something. At all. I do not discuss anything related to my cases outside of work. Period. The consequences are too great.

You definitely did the right thing. Don't beat yourself up about making her worry, it means you got the point across.

[Clara Bow]

I think I've read something wrong. You mentioned a coworker's name and all she said was "That's a confidential case" (paraphrase) and that's TMI? Or did she give some detail. I'm not meaning to pry....
I think that you were actually very kind to give her the heads up on watching herself in public. It's kind of like telling someone that they have something in their teeth, sure it's awkward and embarrassing but you'd rather be told than look like a fool.

[Sandi Papaya]

I think I've read something wrong. You mentioned a coworker's name and all she said was "That's a confidential case" (paraphrase) and that's TMI?

She said, "Oh! (Name of person here)? She's a confidential case in our unit!" MAJOR boo-boo.

We are not supposed to discuss the details of cases outside of work, or for purposes unrelated to work. Ever. Especially not names or other identifying details. I'm not sure how the confidentiality rules are applied to temporary staff, but permanent staff are required to sign a confidentiality agreement. If she were a permanent employee, that slip-up could potentially cost her her job, if there had been someone around who worked for our organization, which is related to county government. If the wrong person is about, things like that spread like wildfire around the organization.

Confidential cases are an especially tricky matter. We were in an area where there were, potentially, people who might know this person, and that could create a lot of problems for the girl who mentioned her name and the detail that "(X) has a confidential case in our unit." That is not a detail you give out. EVER. Had I been the one to say it, and had there been someone around who was a coworker of mine (very possible, as we were near the area where my office is located), I would have found myself in a world of hurt - not only would I lose my job, I could face fines and jail time if the slip-up were egregious enough. This is not something they play around with, so I gave her the heads-up, because if it were to happen again, in the wrong place, at the wrong time, she could inadvertently get herself in serious trouble.

Like I said, I don't play politics, especially office-wise, so she has nothing to fear from me, nor from the other girls we were with. But we do have to be especially careful in our line of work, because there are people who just cannot be trusted. I can count the number of co-workers I trust implicitly on one hand, and most of those were sitting at that table with me last night. I do count a few of my co-workers as friends, but I know very well who not to trust, with any kind of information, personal or work-related. Plus, like I said, confidentiality is integral to the work we do, because we handle a LOT of sensitive information on a daily basis. I know she didn't mean anything by it; she was just sort of caught by surprise and the information slipped, but we reassured her (I hope!) that she was not in any danger from any of us.

[kckgirl]

You are absolutely correct that you never know who is nearby. My family walked into a popular steak restaurant in our area where we had to wait for a table. My grandchildren noticed another child we know from church. He was with his dad, stepmom, and their family members. We don't know them; we know his mom and her family. They were pretty spread out with dad and stepmom separated by kids and grandparents. Meanwhile, the stepmom proceeded to badmouth the boy's mom to another lady while we were standing right next to them. I chose to keep quiet because I had children with me and didn't want to upset them, but I really wanted to tell her she didn't know who was standing around her and especially didn't know who they knew (if that makes any sense). It's always best to keep in mind that the strangers around you might know the person about whom you're talking.

[MineralDiva]

You did absolutely the right thing, MoonBunny.  She needs to be more careful.  And I can't think of any better way to word it than you did!

[Sandi Papaya]

I know I keep saying this...but I felt bad about telling her.

It was an easy choice though - keep my mouth shut and let her set herself up for a future humiliation at someone else's hands, or let her know right off the bat she was out of line and needed to watch herself in future? Hmmm, which one was I gonna let her do?

However annoying I sometimes found her to be as a coworker, she's got a good heart and means well, and I couldn't let that major misstep on her part go unnoticed. I quickly shushed her at the table, then later I tried to let her know as gently as possible why I had done so.

The thing that kind of makes me feel guilty was that I was kind of saving my own neck and protecting my own reputation at the same time. It would not be a good feeling to walk in the office Monday morning to find out out that someone in our organization had seen me in the company of this person and heard the comment she'd made. Even if I said absolutely nothing, the tarnish would already be on me. It's not fair, but it's how things sometimes work in our organization. Fortunately, as a permanent employee, I have recourse to protect myself from this kind of backstabbing and dirty politics. As a temp, she does not.

I'm still, technically, on probation, so I kind of have to be careful what I say and do, even outside the office, because it could reflect poorly on me in the office. My first concern, though, was for her, because that thoughtless exclamation could cost her her job, and even her future with the organization.

[JoyinVirginia]

I think speaking up was the right thing to do if you didn't come across as threatening her job.  A warning like "Jane, we're outside the office in public, so I think being careful about confidential subjects is essential" is perfectly reasonable and even necessary.  On the other hand, something like "Jane, you could get fired for discussing confidential matters away from the office" would probably be too off-putting.

I work in health care. my DH works in healthcare data management for Big Insurance Company. Confidentiality violations for either of us could result in loss of licensure to practice or reprimand from my state licensing agency; substantial fine for my employer from federal regulators; monetary damages; damage to professional reputation; accrediation agency reprimands for my employer; and so on. Loss of employment is a given, minimum for confidentiality violations would be probation. There are posters all over the place about confidentiality. I think Moonbunny should have given Ms. Loose Lips a kick in the shins at the first mention of this!

Of course, I am the person who has been riding in the elevator with med students discussion an interesting case they have on their floor - and I take the time out of my busy day to lecture them on confidentiality right there, using my very best "Teacher" voice. I guarantee it is a lesson they won't soon forget. (Cause I live down the street from the executive secretary to the Dean of the School of Medicine and SHE will hear about it - so the Dean will hear about it.)

Moonbunny, you did good. Ms. Loose Lips will REMEMBER this and it was a kindness you spoke up and pointed out the facts of life to her.
Just my two cents, Joy in Virginia

[Sandi Papaya]

I work in health care. my DH works in healthcare data management for Big Insurance Company. Confidentiality violations for either of us could result in loss of licensure to practice or reprimand from my state licensing agency; substantial fine for my employer from federal regulators; monetary damages; damage to professional reputation; accrediation agency reprimands for my employer; and so on. Loss of employment is a given, minimum for confidentiality violations would be probation. There are posters all over the place about confidentiality. I think Moonbunny should have given Ms. Loose Lips a kick in the shins at the first mention of this!

Thing was, I was sitting next to her - I almost DID kick her. I just didn't want to leave a bruise, because I would have kicked her hard.

The hospital where my grandma is still staying is one gigantic HIPAA violation after another. I could kick some of those doctors, nurses, transport workers, CNAs, etc, in the shins sometimes for discussing patients in full hearing of other patients' families, etc. It's really disgusting.

[Minmom3]

My husband used to work for a certain computer company down in Cupertino...  When we went out to lunch together, there were restaurants we flat out avoided, because they were company hangouts (so we couldn't gossip) or we went to a non-company hangout, so we COULD gossip to our hearts content.  That's a fact of life for many people in many jobs country wide,  and I think you did her a favor to make her aware of that fact.  Her blabbing COULD affect her job if somebody a table over heard the wrong thing, so she needed to be made aware of that fact.  Sounds like you did a nice job of alerting her.

I'm sure she felt horrible because of what you said, BUT, better feeling horrible and learning to bite your tongue, than feeling horrible because somebody pulls you into their office and tells you you're getting a warning in your HR file for talking about something in public, or you're getting fired for same...