Author Topic: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10, 27  (Read 8081 times)

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WillyNilly

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2013, 01:32:06 PM »
Sure showing up 10, 15, 30 minutes late is ok for a casual affair but blowing off a full half of a party, for a dinner you were invited to after the party invite is pretty universally rude.

My experience is that it is NOT universally rude.  My sister's husband threw her a fancy party (I wore a teal sequined cocktail dress! My BF wore a tuxedo!!!) for her 40th birthday.  It was fully catered, open bar.  It started at 7:00.  I was there at 7:00, because she's my sister and because my BF and I had to leave by 10:00, but people trickled in and some did not arrive until closer to 9:00, when it had been put on the written invitations that speeches and other fun stuff would happen.  No one thought anyone arriving later was rude.  Some people had to leave right after the toasts, some stayed until 2:00 am.

But you are talking about a party that went on from 7:00 pm to 2:00 am - a 7 hour party. This was a more casual cocktail style affair apparently, which to me means about 3 hours. Showing up 2 hours late to a 7 hour party is not comparable to showing up 1.5 hours late to a 3 or 4 hour party IMO.

TurtleDove

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2013, 01:47:13 PM »
But you are talking about a party that went on from 7:00 pm to 2:00 am - a 7 hour party. This was a more casual cocktail style affair apparently, which to me means about 3 hours. Showing up 2 hours late to a 7 hour party is not comparable to showing up 1.5 hours late to a 3 or 4 hour party IMO.

Did the OP say that and I missed it?  How long did the party go?  What specifically did the phone invitations say?  I think these things matter.  I would think that a party right after the dinner hour would start at like 7 or 8 and go until bar close - same as what my sister's party was.  I don't seen where the OP said this one ended three or four hours after it started.

Bijou

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2013, 01:56:09 PM »
This was a casual affair with only snacks being served in a bar with no written invitations.  It was set for right after the dinner hour (which varies for different people) .  Since people do have to eat dinner, and the OP said that Mary and Tess had (already?) planned a dinner out for the same night, it sounds like that was already in the works.  And they did invite her to join them (I get why she felt she couldn't).
I don't see the rudeness because it sounds very casual.
I've never knitted anything I could recognize when it was finished.  Actually, I've never finished anything, much to my family's relief.

WillyNilly

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2013, 01:59:49 PM »
But you are talking about a party that went on from 7:00 pm to 2:00 am - a 7 hour party. This was a more casual cocktail style affair apparently, which to me means about 3 hours. Showing up 2 hours late to a 7 hour party is not comparable to showing up 1.5 hours late to a 3 or 4 hour party IMO.

Did the OP say that and I missed it?  How long did the party go?  What specifically did the phone invitations say?  I think these things matter.  I would think that a party right after the dinner hour would start at like 7 or 8 and go until bar close - same as what my sister's party was.  I don't seen where the OP said this one ended three or four hours after it started.

She didn't say it was 3 or 4 hours. But she also didn't say it was 7-9 hours, which is what 7:00 or 8:00pm to closing would be. So we are both making assumptions.

But in my experience a casual birthday party is going to be a shorter end of things. And as I said there is actually a US "standard" in the catering and event industry of 5 hours for dinner parties (like weddings, sweet sixteens, formal anniversaries, bar/t mitzvahs, etc) and 3 hours for cocktail parties and mixers. Its awesome and generous your sister hosted a 7 hour affair, but it is outside the realms of average and I think its therefore an unfair 'norm' to hold other parties to.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 02:01:25 PM by WillyNilly »

Sharnita

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2013, 02:10:36 PM »
I would say that unless you are told the party goes until close and that you should feel free to come anytime you should err om the side of caution. I can't say I havebeen to any paryy woth a structure like TurtleDove describes. It might be the norm in her mediate social circle but that isn't a big enough group to use as a guideline for anyone excepet maybe TurtleDove.

TurtleDove

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2013, 02:35:45 PM »
I suspect I am envisioning this situation differently than some posters.  OP, can you clarify what the setup was?  I am envisioning a casual gathering of 20somethings at a bar that is also open the public with the birthday girl paying for some apps and bringing a cake.  I also am envisioning maybe 30-50 people invited, with the expectation that some cannot make it at all, some will be there the whole time, and some will pop in at some point to say happy birthday.  I am envisioning a "partying" atmosphere as opposed to a "five year old birthday party" atmosphere (the latter would necessarily be far more structured and involve games and things).  I am envisioning a start time of 7, which to me would make an arrival time of 8:30 completely normal, unless the invitation was specific that something special was to happen at a certain time before then.  The actual facts make a major difference to me. 

TurtleDove

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2013, 02:36:30 PM »
I would say that unless you are told the party goes until close and that you should feel free to come anytime you should err om the side of caution. I can't say I havebeen to any paryy woth a structure like TurtleDove describes. It might be the norm in her mediate social circle but that isn't a big enough group to use as a guideline for anyone excepet maybe TurtleDove.

Well, me and my social circle. :) 

KaosP

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2013, 03:04:41 PM »
I suspect I am envisioning this situation differently than some posters.  OP, can you clarify what the setup was?  I am envisioning a casual gathering of 20somethings at a bar that is also open the public with the birthday girl paying for some apps and bringing a cake.  I also am envisioning maybe 30-50 people invited, with the expectation that some cannot make it at all, some will be there the whole time, and some will pop in at some point to say happy birthday.  I am envisioning a "partying" atmosphere as opposed to a "five year old birthday party" atmosphere (the latter would necessarily be far more structured and involve games and things).  I am envisioning a start time of 7, which to me would make an arrival time of 8:30 completely normal, unless the invitation was specific that something special was to happen at a certain time before then.  The actual facts make a major difference to me.

That's how I'm envisioning it, as well. I can totally see this scenario in my social circle - the assumption would be that we're starting after dinner and it goes until it ends, more than likely until the bar closes. But would definitely need clarification from the OP as to her social structure.

Surianne

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2013, 03:13:27 PM »
My experience is similar to TurtleDove's.  An after dinner, casual invitation for cocktails would mean come by any time after 7pm, to me.  Unless it was specified in the phone call that the birthday girl wanted everyone there at 7pm, I'd assume only a few would show for 7pm, and most would show up much closer to 9pm -- time to eat dinner in a relaxed fashion after work (at home, or dinner out), get dressed for a night out, and make their way to the bar.  I can't see the friends as rude without more information. 

WillyNilly

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2013, 03:37:40 PM »
I think its important to remember everyone is just assuming that 7pm start time too. To me 7pm is dinner time, not after dinnertime (which what the OP said the invite was for). In fact especially on a weekend, 7pm is a rather early dinner time. (6:30-8:30 being, to me, average dinnertime, with the occasional 9 or 10pm dinner not being unheard of).

I am more envisioning Lucy invited people for a 9:00pm party, and Mary and Tess invited people for a 7:30 or 8:00pm dinner.

I also don't necessarily envision a party at a bar ends as soon as the catering ends. I'm thinking more like Lucy arranged for drinks and nibbles for her guests for about 3 hours, but that people might decide to stay longer (much like at a wedding where guests move to the hotel bar for an after party) on their own dime. But if people RSVP'ed, even verbally, to Lucy they were coming and then arrived at such a time as to miss half of what she paid for (and she paid anticipating their attendance), I cannot see how they weren't rude.

wyliefool

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2013, 04:12:29 PM »
How does going out for a pre-party dinner wind up making people 1.5 hours late?? That's more time than I usually spend at a restaurant for dinner, period. Did they only get to the restaurant when the party would be starting? Did they have a 3-hour dinner, knowing there was this party after? Rude, either way, unless Lucy planned her party knowing they already had these plans set, which it doesn't sound like is the case.

Surianne

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2013, 04:17:22 PM »
I think its important to remember everyone is just assuming that 7pm start time too. To me 7pm is dinner time, not after dinnertime (which what the OP said the invite was for). In fact especially on a weekend, 7pm is a rather early dinner time. (6:30-8:30 being, to me, average dinnertime, with the occasional 9 or 10pm dinner not being unheard of).

I am more envisioning Lucy invited people for a 9:00pm party, and Mary and Tess invited people for a 7:30 or 8:00pm dinner.

I also don't necessarily envision a party at a bar ends as soon as the catering ends. I'm thinking more like Lucy arranged for drinks and nibbles for her guests for about 3 hours, but that people might decide to stay longer (much like at a wedding where guests move to the hotel bar for an after party) on their own dime. But if people RSVP'ed, even verbally, to Lucy they were coming and then arrived at such a time as to miss half of what she paid for (and she paid anticipating their attendance), I cannot see how they weren't rude.

That's a good point, it sounds like we're all assuming different things based on our personal experience.  Supper times obviously vary (I eat supper at 5pm, but I still wouldn't expect to go to a party until 8 or 9) and I've never encountered the half-paid-for party at a bar before.    So I think whether or not Lucy's friends were rude really depends on how much information they had about Lucy's intentions and how the party worked. 

Bashful

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2013, 05:04:16 PM »
OP here.
More info.
I suspect I am envisioning this situation differently than some posters.  OP, can you clarify what the setup was?  I am envisioning a casual gathering of 20somethings at a bar that is also open the public with the birthday girl paying for some apps and bringing a cake.  I also am envisioning maybe 30-50 people invited, with the expectation that some cannot make it at all, some will be there the whole time, and some will pop in at some point to say happy birthday.  I am envisioning a "partying" atmosphere as opposed to a "five year old birthday party" atmosphere (the latter would necessarily be far more structured and involve games and things).  I am envisioning a start time of 7, which to me would make an arrival time of 8:30 completely normal, unless the invitation was specific that something special was to happen at a certain time before then.  The actual facts make a major difference to me. 
TurtleDove: were you there with Lucy, Mary, Tess and me? :D You nailed the gathering perfectly, except for the number of guests which were approximately 20. Of these 20 people, 7 were at the dinner. There wasn't anything special happening at a certain time. Being fashionably late was accepted.
Mary could have brought her baby, if she wanted. We were in a private room, no loud music, no smoke and the boy, being a newborn, can't knock things off. The only adult oriented part was the time set: an after dinner event doesn't match very well with infants schedule, I guess!
The party was supposed to last 3 hours, a.k.a. closing time for the bar, and everybody was aware of that.
I'm trying to stay generic, so let's say that dinner time is usually 7:00pm and Lucy invited people for a 8:30pm party. Plenty of time if you eat at home, not so much if you go to the restaurant. Usually restaurant meals last 2+hours (that is perfectly normal and expected). It was highly unlikely that Mary, Tess and the dinner guests would be on time.
Please note that first Lucy invited people to her birthday and then Mary and Tess arranged the dinner.



Surianne

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10, 27
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2013, 05:41:14 PM »
Thanks for the clarifications, OP.  With the update, I don't think the friends were rude.   It sounds like a very casual event with no reason everyone had to be there right at the start time.  Unless Lucy told them otherwise, it comes across as an event where you can drop in/out when you please, and it sounds like they were there for at least half of the time set. 

I think Lucy was majorly overreacting to assume that the dinner beforehand was sabotage.  It sounds to me like it was simply an attempt to spend more time together for some of the friends.  If the two organizers of the dinner did it deliberately knowing Lucy would be upset, there's still no reason to think the other guests going to the dinner would have had a clue that it would bother Lucy.

Danika

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10, 27
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2013, 05:47:24 PM »
I believe they were rude, or at least thoughtless. Why did Mary and Tess decide to put together this dinner in the first place? And why with the same set of friends/guests? Was it because they thought they'd go hungry at Lucy's event? So they thought it'd be a good idea to eat before they went? And then they thought they'd invite the same crowd?

I think had Mary and Tess thought "we'll be hungry if we just go to Lucy's event, we should have dinner first. Hey, let's invite others who are going to Lucy's bar event to dinner first." The FIRST thing they should have done was call Lucy and say "We are thinking of going out to dinner before your event. 1) Does that sound ok to you? 2) Would you like to go? 3) Where would you like to go, since it's your birthday? 4) Do you mind if we invite all our mutual friends who are going to be guests at your party? 5) What would be a good start time for dinner, so that we may make it in time to your party?"

Instead, it's like they planned a dinner event *knowing* that Lucy would not be able to join them because she'd have to be setting up for her own party. That's mean.