Author Topic: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10, 27  (Read 9021 times)

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WillyNilly

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10, 27
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2013, 05:53:28 PM »
The update for me, confirms they were rude. As I thought it was a short, 3 hour event. Showing up an hour and a half late, because they initiated (or accepted) a second invitation to me is rude. Lucy planned her party first and invited everyone. Once someone accepts an invitation its rude to plan for another conflicting event over that same time slot.

Jones

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10, 27
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2013, 05:54:31 PM »
Phoned invites to a bar seems casual enough, in my circle, that very late would be fine. Of course, non dinner parties in my circle usually have people coming and going the entire time. Calling it "sabotage" is, IMO, not warranted.

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10, 27
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2013, 06:04:02 PM »
I believe they were rude, or at least thoughtless. Why did Mary and Tess decide to put together this dinner in the first place? And why with the same set of friends/guests? Was it because they thought they'd go hungry at Lucy's event? So they thought it'd be a good idea to eat before they went? And then they thought they'd invite the same crowd?

I have no idea if this is the case, but just to offer one possible answer: out of the 20 people invited, I can easily see 7 or so of them being a kind of "sub-group". Meaning, they're not super close with the host (although they are obviously friends, since they were invited to the party), and may in fact be closer with each other.

So, Sub-group wants to meet up earlier to hang out and have a sit-down dinner somewhere, and then they all plan to go over to the Big Group party when dinner is over. Just in my social circle, this would be totally reasonable, even if they did end up getting to the bar quite late. In a group of 20 friends (IMHO), there's always some dividing into groups. I see the 13 people at the bar the whole night as being the closer friends, the core group of the party who are close to the host, and then the 7 late comers as the supplemental group, so to speak, who may be less close.

I wouldn't do this if it conflicted *that* much with the planned party, of course, but I can see why/how the dinner may have just ended up organically happening instead of being sabotage.

katycoo

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2013, 06:58:29 PM »
OP here.
More info.
I suspect I am envisioning this situation differently than some posters.  OP, can you clarify what the setup was?  I am envisioning a casual gathering of 20somethings at a bar that is also open the public with the birthday girl paying for some apps and bringing a cake.  I also am envisioning maybe 30-50 people invited, with the expectation that some cannot make it at all, some will be there the whole time, and some will pop in at some point to say happy birthday.  I am envisioning a "partying" atmosphere as opposed to a "five year old birthday party" atmosphere (the latter would necessarily be far more structured and involve games and things).  I am envisioning a start time of 7, which to me would make an arrival time of 8:30 completely normal, unless the invitation was specific that something special was to happen at a certain time before then.  The actual facts make a major difference to me. 
TurtleDove: were you there with Lucy, Mary, Tess and me? :D You nailed the gathering perfectly, except for the number of guests which were approximately 20. Of these 20 people, 7 were at the dinner. There wasn't anything special happening at a certain time. Being fashionably late was accepted.
Mary could have brought her baby, if she wanted. We were in a private room, no loud music, no smoke and the boy, being a newborn, can't knock things off. The only adult oriented part was the time set: an after dinner event doesn't match very well with infants schedule, I guess!
The party was supposed to last 3 hours, a.k.a. closing time for the bar, and everybody was aware of that.
I'm trying to stay generic, so let's say that dinner time is usually 7:00pm and Lucy invited people for a 8:30pm party. Plenty of time if you eat at home, not so much if you go to the restaurant. Usually restaurant meals last 2+hours (that is perfectly normal and expected). It was highly unlikely that Mary, Tess and the dinner guests would be on time.
Please note that first Lucy invited people to her birthday and then Mary and Tess arranged the dinner.

Well, I was on board with Turtledove, but with the new info re timing, if I really really wanted to go out for dinner I'd make it a 6pm booking.  earlier than I'd usually eat, but if I knew the bar closed at 11:30, I would want to be there earlier.

WillyNilly

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10, 27
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2013, 08:10:22 PM »
Yeah to me, the updates just confirms these people missed, on purpose, a solid half of the party by showing up an hour and a half late. That to me is rude, considering this wasn't just meeting up at the bar, this was a private room and Lucy paying for catering, and we are talking about a solid 1/3 of the guests and Lucy's invite came first!

jedikaiti

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10, 27
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2013, 08:56:06 PM »
Yeah to me, the updates just confirms these people missed, on purpose, a solid half of the party by showing up an hour and a half late. That to me is rude, considering this wasn't just meeting up at the bar, this was a private room and Lucy paying for catering, and we are talking about a solid 1/3 of the guests and Lucy's invite came first!

Exactly - in my circle of friends, if you already have dinner plans, it'd be fine to say "I'd love to come, but I have a dinner at 7, so I might be late." But then again, in that case, the dinner plans were made first. If dinner plans are being made AFTER accepting a post-dinner invite, dinner will be faster, earlier, or even both.
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Raintree

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10, 27
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2013, 09:17:04 PM »
It's fine to want to meet up for dinner first before joining an after-dinner event. But if I were the friends, I'd have had the dinner much earlier, or eaten at home (or a quick take-out if coming straight from work) to avoid missing half the party.

I still do think Lucy over-reacted by confronting them with the "sabotage" argument. It kind of does all sound like a misunderstanding.

Raintree

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10, 27
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2013, 09:19:16 PM »
I'm still a little confused as to how it would be OK to bring the baby out in bad weather to the restaurant, but not in the same bad weather to the cocktail bar? Since they seem to have been using the baby as an excuse to go to the restaurant instead.

sammycat

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10, 27
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2013, 09:21:49 PM »
I believe they were rude, or at least thoughtless. Why did Mary and Tess decide to put together this dinner in the first place? And why with the same set of friends/guests? Was it because they thought they'd go hungry at Lucy's event? So they thought it'd be a good idea to eat before they went? And then they thought they'd invite the same crowd?

I think had Mary and Tess thought "we'll be hungry if we just go to Lucy's event, we should have dinner first. Hey, let's invite others who are going to Lucy's bar event to dinner first." The FIRST thing they should have done was call Lucy and say "We are thinking of going out to dinner before your event. 1) Does that sound ok to you? 2) Would you like to go? 3) Where would you like to go, since it's your birthday? 4) Do you mind if we invite all our mutual friends who are going to be guests at your party? 5) What would be a good start time for dinner, so that we may make it in time to your party?"

Instead, it's like they planned a dinner event *knowing* that Lucy would not be able to join them because she'd have to be setting up for her own party. That's mean.

Yeah to me, the updates just confirms these people missed, on purpose, a solid half of the party by showing up an hour and a half late. That to me is rude, considering this wasn't just meeting up at the bar, this was a private room and Lucy paying for catering, and we are talking about a solid 1/3 of the guests and Lucy's invite came first!

Ditto. I think the latecomers were rude. Unless something is a specified open house, I can't imagine any scenario where I'd find it acceptable to turn up 1 1/2 hours late to something.

Jones

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10, 27
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2013, 09:33:37 PM »
I wonder if there was some miscommunication for most of the latecomers, in which the dinner planners told them it was a birthday dinner being tacked onto the cocktail hour? That's the only way I can see it as "sabotage".

LifeOnPluto

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2013, 10:43:31 PM »
OP here.
More info.
I suspect I am envisioning this situation differently than some posters.  OP, can you clarify what the setup was?  I am envisioning a casual gathering of 20somethings at a bar that is also open the public with the birthday girl paying for some apps and bringing a cake.  I also am envisioning maybe 30-50 people invited, with the expectation that some cannot make it at all, some will be there the whole time, and some will pop in at some point to say happy birthday.  I am envisioning a "partying" atmosphere as opposed to a "five year old birthday party" atmosphere (the latter would necessarily be far more structured and involve games and things).  I am envisioning a start time of 7, which to me would make an arrival time of 8:30 completely normal, unless the invitation was specific that something special was to happen at a certain time before then.  The actual facts make a major difference to me. 
TurtleDove: were you there with Lucy, Mary, Tess and me? :D You nailed the gathering perfectly, except for the number of guests which were approximately 20. Of these 20 people, 7 were at the dinner. There wasn't anything special happening at a certain time. Being fashionably late was accepted.
Mary could have brought her baby, if she wanted. We were in a private room, no loud music, no smoke and the boy, being a newborn, can't knock things off. The only adult oriented part was the time set: an after dinner event doesn't match very well with infants schedule, I guess!
The party was supposed to last 3 hours, a.k.a. closing time for the bar, and everybody was aware of that.
I'm trying to stay generic, so let's say that dinner time is usually 7:00pm and Lucy invited people for a 8:30pm party. Plenty of time if you eat at home, not so much if you go to the restaurant. Usually restaurant meals last 2+hours (that is perfectly normal and expected). It was highly unlikely that Mary, Tess and the dinner guests would be on time.
Please note that first Lucy invited people to her birthday and then Mary and Tess arranged the dinner.

Well, I was on board with Turtledove, but with the new info re timing, if I really really wanted to go out for dinner I'd make it a 6pm booking.  earlier than I'd usually eat, but if I knew the bar closed at 11:30, I would want to be there earlier.

I agree with this. Why didn't Mary and Co have dinner early? It sounds like they went ahead and planned dinner for the "normal" dinner hour, knowing full well they'd be 1.5 hours late to Lucy's party.

Also, 1/3 is quite a large subset of guests (particularly as 20 people isn't a huge crowd to begin with). I do think Mary and Tess were also rude to invite that many people to the dinner.

peaches

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10, 27
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2013, 11:14:48 PM »
I think the late ones were thoughtless, if not rude.

One and a half hours is late to a party, when the party has a stated start time.  If 1/3 of the people are late, it interrupts the flow of the party and complicates when to serve cake, etc.

The birthday girl had to plan and pay for her party (food, drinks, cake). It's disrespectful of her efforts, and her special day, to show up so late. That dinner should have been much earlier or not taken place on that night.

Morticia

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10, 27
« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2013, 08:56:11 AM »
To me, they scheduled an event concurrent with the first half of the birthday party and invited the same guests. 1.5 hours late is not running overtime; it's overlap.  And I can't help but think that is very inconsiderate to their hostess, and wrong.
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Girlie

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10, 27
« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2013, 01:32:25 PM »
To me, they scheduled an event concurrent with the first half of the birthday party and invited the same guests. 1.5 hours late is not running overtime; it's overlap.  And I can't help but think that is very inconsiderate to their hostess, and wrong.

POD. It seems like it was done purposefully.
I can't speak for anyone else, obviously, but in MY social circle of 20-somethings, we would NEVER show up half-way through a hosted, three-hour party the way that this group seems to have done.

saffron

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Re: Bday sabotage? More details in p. 4, 10, 27
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2013, 01:52:54 PM »
I wonder if the method of invitation had anything to do with it.

I find (ymmv) that if I have a written (paper) invitation to something I tend to consider it more 'formal' than a phone call invitation. If my friend calls to give me details of a party - I tend to assume it's pretty relaxed and as long as I show up for some of it I'm in the clear. I can totally see myself going out for dinner with some friends before another friend's party thinking it starts at 7:00ish.

If however, I had an invitation that said 'starts at 7:00' I would be on time because it would indicate to me that the event is important enough to the host to make more 'formal' arrangements (for lack of a better word).

Could it be that the guests who arrived late did so because they assumed that it was a fairly casual affair given that the details were communicated via phone?