Author Topic: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses  (Read 28460 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

TurtleDove

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6112
Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #105 on: April 04, 2013, 11:42:57 AM »
A strapless dress can look modest, and a sleeved dress can look obscene.  It all depends on the cut, the shape of the woman, and what look the woman is really going for.  I never found shoulders and arms sexy or suggestive anyway.

Agreed.

violinp

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3598
  • cabbagegirl28's my sister :)
Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #106 on: April 04, 2013, 11:45:19 AM »
A strapless dress can look modest, and a sleeved dress can look obscene.  It all depends on the cut, the shape of the woman, and what look the woman is really going for.  I never found shoulders and arms sexy or suggestive anyway.

Agreed.

POD. I've seen wedding dresses, both strapless and sleeved, that I wouldn't wear except in the bedroom.
"It takes a great deal of courage to stand up to your enemies, but even more to stand up to your friends" - Harry Potter


MerryCat

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1850
Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #107 on: April 04, 2013, 11:53:50 AM »
Would a well fitting tube top made of thicker material with a corset on top be acceptable then? I don't think it would.

I think that if one choose to wear a strapless dress, they should wear some kind of cover while in church.


That should be left up to the church.

I'm going to park my POD here. Every place of worship has its own standards for modesty and, as long as the HC check and and gets approval from the PTB first, I'm not sure it is anyone else's business what the bride wears. It's not disrespectful to wear something that is explicitly permited by your place of worship to your wedding.

Okay, maybe if you show up to church dressed like a Vegas showgirl, complete with feathers, sequis and tassels on your wossnames people get to judge a little. But then again, there are probably 24 hour wedding chapels in Vegas where this would be perfectly appropriate.

Sharnita

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 21524
Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #108 on: April 04, 2013, 12:01:49 PM »
For that matter, there are some relious sects that believe wearing a garment that has a zipper is inappropriate. 

Poppea

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2458
Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #109 on: April 04, 2013, 12:06:06 PM »
There is no comparison between a tube top and the dress pictured. 

Yes, the dress has a plunging neckline but the V is very narrow.  It looks comfortable, elegant and perfectly suitable for a church Wedding in most major denominations.

To be fair, the dress pictured is NOT strapless.  It is sleeveless.  You are comparing apples and oranges.


Rohanna

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2321
Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #111 on: April 04, 2013, 12:24:41 PM »
I just don't see why it's okay to be rude and judgemental about a common dress style - it really smacks of something ... almost a shaming of sorts. I don't like sleeves on most dresses (I think they add bulk and look dated) but outside of using it as an example in this thread, I don't go around saying that everyone who wears one must belong to a repressive society or feel body-shame. I don't go on about how difficult they must find it to move and how silly they look. I dont compare sleeved gowns to a parka anymore than a formal strapless gown should be compared to a Spandex tube top- thats almost inflammatory. Yet, in spite of many brides such as myself saying we were comfortable, felt dressed appropriately for our venue, and liked our dresses there are posters who seem incapable of stepping outside their own church or personal comfort level to see that. I don't care for short wedding dresses either - but again, I do not make
Judgemental comments about people who buy them.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 12:26:34 PM by Rohanna »
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. ~ Jack Layton.

Hmmmmm

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6551
Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #112 on: April 04, 2013, 12:48:09 PM »
I just don't see why it's okay to be rude and judgemental about a common dress style - it really smacks of something ... almost a shaming of sorts. I don't like sleeves on most dresses (I think they add bulk and look dated) but outside of using it as an example in this thread, I don't go around saying that everyone who wears one must belong to a repressive society or feel body-shame. I don't go on about how difficult they must find it to move and how silly they look. I dont compare sleeved gowns to a parka anymore than a formal strapless gown should be compared to a Spandex tube top- thats almost inflammatory. Yet, in spite of many brides such as myself saying we were comfortable, felt dressed appropriately for our venue, and liked our dresses there are posters who seem incapable of stepping outside their own church or personal comfort level to see that. I don't care for short wedding dresses either - but again, I do not make
Judgemental comments about people who buy them.

Rohanna, I'm hope the comments I made didn't appear to be judgemental about about the people who buy them. I think the majority of acknowledge it is the current fashion and considered completely accpetable by the majority of the Western population.

The thread was asking for opinions about a Miss Manner's column. The vast majority of posters believe her statements are outdated, old fashioned, and mean spirited.

A very tiny minority of us have said, either we understand why she has said what she said based on the historical role of a strapless dress and/or that they share a similar opinion.

It sort of like discussing wearing white after labor day. Some people were raised where it wasn't done and they will never personally be able to do it and always find it odd when others do. If the thread had been on that topic instead and a large number said "I where white during the Fall", should the non-white wearers not be allowed to share their opinions that tradition in the US South religates white to the summer months only?


Yvaine

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 8929
Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #113 on: April 04, 2013, 12:54:40 PM »
I just don't see why it's okay to be rude and judgemental about a common dress style - it really smacks of something ... almost a shaming of sorts. I don't like sleeves on most dresses (I think they add bulk and look dated) but outside of using it as an example in this thread, I don't go around saying that everyone who wears one must belong to a repressive society or feel body-shame. I don't go on about how difficult they must find it to move and how silly they look. I dont compare sleeved gowns to a parka anymore than a formal strapless gown should be compared to a Spandex tube top- thats almost inflammatory. Yet, in spite of many brides such as myself saying we were comfortable, felt dressed appropriately for our venue, and liked our dresses there are posters who seem incapable of stepping outside their own church or personal comfort level to see that. I don't care for short wedding dresses either - but again, I do not make
Judgemental comments about people who buy them.

Rohanna, I'm hope the comments I made didn't appear to be judgemental about about the people who buy them. I think the majority of acknowledge it is the current fashion and considered completely accpetable by the majority of the Western population.

The thread was asking for opinions about a Miss Manner's column. The vast majority of posters believe her statements are outdated, old fashioned, and mean spirited.

A very tiny minority of us have said, either we understand why she has said what she said based on the historical role of a strapless dress and/or that they share a similar opinion.

It sort of like discussing wearing white after labor day. Some people were raised where it wasn't done and they will never personally be able to do it and always find it odd when others do. If the thread had been on that topic instead and a large number said "I where white during the Fall", should the non-white wearers not be allowed to share their opinions that tradition in the US South religates white to the summer months only?

There have been blanket statements about such a dress being "disrespectful," even in the face of posters discussing how these dresses were approved by the clergyperson at the church they were married in. Comments about how you, personally, couldn't wear one because you were raised that way are not really the problem, IMO.

Judah

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4769
  • California, U.S.A
Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #114 on: April 04, 2013, 01:02:23 PM »
There have been blanket statements about such a dress being "disrespectful," even in the face of posters discussing how these dresses were approved by the clergyperson at the church they were married in. Comments about how you, personally, couldn't wear one because you were raised that way are not really the problem, IMO.

It's not rude to have an opinion as long as you express it politely. Saying, "I find wearing strapless dresses in a house of worship disrespectful" is not rude. We are allowed to have opinions and express them even when those opinions aren't popular.  I haven't seen a post where someone said anything like, "anyone who wears a strapless gown might as well sew a scarlet letter onto it." That would be rude.

Ask for what you want. Let's be clear on this one:
Subtle hints don't work.
Strong hints don't work.
Really obvious hints don't work.
Just say it!

-The Car Talk Guys

Hmmmmm

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6551
Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #115 on: April 04, 2013, 01:07:31 PM »
There have been blanket statements about such a dress being "disrespectful," even in the face of posters discussing how these dresses were approved by the clergyperson at the church they were married in. Comments about how you, personally, couldn't wear one because you were raised that way are not really the problem, IMO.

It's not rude to have an opinion as long as you express it politely. Saying, "I find wearing strapless dresses in a house of worship disrespectful" is not rude. We are allowed to have opinions and express them even when those opinions aren't popular.  I haven't seen a post where someone said anything like, "anyone who wears a strapless gown might as well sew a scarlet letter onto it." That would be rude.

I went back and read the posts of the minority.

One said they found strapless in a church tacky and another said they agreed with that person and believe a covering should be worn with the dress during the church ceremony.

I don't find either of those statements to be judgemental of the individuals but of a style.


lady_disdain

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 5885
    • Contemporary Jewelry
Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #116 on: April 04, 2013, 01:13:24 PM »
There have been blanket statements about such a dress being "disrespectful," even in the face of posters discussing how these dresses were approved by the clergyperson at the church they were married in. Comments about how you, personally, couldn't wear one because you were raised that way are not really the problem, IMO.

It's not rude to have an opinion as long as you express it politely. Saying, "I find wearing strapless dresses in a house of worship disrespectful" is not rude. We are allowed to have opinions and express them even when those opinions aren't popular.  I haven't seen a post where someone said anything like, "anyone who wears a strapless gown might as well sew a scarlet letter onto it." That would be rude.

I went back and read the posts of the minority.

One said they found strapless in a church tacky and another said they agreed with that person and believe a covering should be worn with the dress during the church ceremony.

I don't find either of those statements to be judgemental of the individuals but of a style.



It is rather naive to believe that criticizing a style says nothing of the person who chooses that style.

Yvaine

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 8929
Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #117 on: April 04, 2013, 01:21:13 PM »
There have been blanket statements about such a dress being "disrespectful," even in the face of posters discussing how these dresses were approved by the clergyperson at the church they were married in. Comments about how you, personally, couldn't wear one because you were raised that way are not really the problem, IMO.

It's not rude to have an opinion as long as you express it politely. Saying, "I find wearing strapless dresses in a house of worship disrespectful" is not rude. We are allowed to have opinions and express them even when those opinions aren't popular.  I haven't seen a post where someone said anything like, "anyone who wears a strapless gown might as well sew a scarlet letter onto it." That would be rude.

I went back and read the posts of the minority.

One said they found strapless in a church tacky and another said they agreed with that person and believe a covering should be worn with the dress during the church ceremony.

I don't find either of those statements to be judgemental of the individuals but of a style.



It is rather naive to believe that criticizing a style says nothing of the person who chooses that style.

This. Especially with a word like disrespectful. If you say it's ugly, well, that's just your aesthetics. But "disrespectful" is an attempt to analyze the motives and feelings of the person wearing the style.

Spring Water on Sundays

  • We will never rest, fighting the battle of who could care less.
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2186
Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #118 on: April 04, 2013, 01:30:08 PM »
There have been blanket statements about such a dress being "disrespectful," even in the face of posters discussing how these dresses were approved by the clergyperson at the church they were married in. Comments about how you, personally, couldn't wear one because you were raised that way are not really the problem, IMO.

It's not rude to have an opinion as long as you express it politely. Saying, "I find wearing strapless dresses in a house of worship disrespectful" is not rude. We are allowed to have opinions and express them even when those opinions aren't popular.  I haven't seen a post where someone said anything like, "anyone who wears a strapless gown might as well sew a scarlet letter onto it." That would be rude.

I agree that it's not rude to hold or express an unpopular opinion in a polite manner. I also agree that most comments in this thread have been very polite (the tone of some has been terse on both sides). However, when an opinion is unpopular or puzzling to others, you are probably going to be asked to clarify. A couple of posters stated that they think brides in strapless gowns are being disrespectful if the ceremony is of a religious nature. They have been asked to clarify if they meant that as a rule across the board, no exceptions, or if they thought bare shoulders would be still be disrespectful (and to whom) if the bride inquires beforehand and is assured that the church has no such restriction or guideline. The "and to whom" part is most important to me in my understanding of this belief because I do not believe that disrespect can exist in a vacuum - there has to be a disrespected party.

I really am puzzled by this belief and I want to understand it, especially because I have been characterized as disrespectful and I don't know why. That's an ugly thing to be accused of.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 01:47:57 PM by Spring Water on Sundays »

Firecat

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2568
Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #119 on: April 04, 2013, 01:43:05 PM »
I'd also like to point out that not every religion has even similar beliefs about what's respectful. For example, I'm Wiccan. Technically, if I'd wanted to, I could have gotten married wearing nothing but a smile and my new wedding ring (aka "skyclad"), and been perfectly respectful in terms of my religion. I didn't do that for many reasons...but it would have been a valid choice. So I think it's important to consider the couple's religious traditions/beliefs, among other things.

Every bride should abide by what's considered appropriate for the venue and her personal/family beliefs around such issues. So long as she does so, I don't think it's fair or correct to consider her "disrespectful". It's fine to say "I personally wouldn't be comfortable doing that," but making a blanket statement that it's disrespectful does come across as judgemental.

For the record, my actual wedding dress was a Renaissance-style dress; it showed a bit of cleavage, but nothing extreme, and had full sleeves. But it wasn't a traditional wedding dress in the modern sense - it was in shades of green with gold-colored trim. So was I disrespectful for choosing a "nontraditional" style and color? Even though green is associated with fertility, the Earth, and lots of other positive things by many Wiccans and other pagans?