Author Topic: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses  (Read 28201 times)

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Firecat

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Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #135 on: April 04, 2013, 05:09:27 PM »
Regarding the "disrespectful" discussion, I believe that another poster said that she thought that in order for there to be disrespect, there must be someone to be disrespected. I agree with this completely.

What if someone's religion expressly believed that the MOST respectful attire was to be "skyclad".
Would someone of that belief who participated in their wedding ceremony skyclad be disrespectful just because the prevailing majority opinion is that it is disrespectful to get married in the buff? I would say absolutely not.
While that is an extreme example, I think that it can be scaled down to the discussion at hand.  Brides on this thread have stated that they asked their clergy if strapless dresses were appropriate and they were told they were.  So who is being disrespected?

 (I love the term "skyclad", by the way.  Is it specific to ceremonial situations or am I allowed to refer to my preschooler - whose favorite state is nude - as skyclad?)

Re: the bolded, go for it  ;D. Just be aware that some other folks who hear it and are familiar with the term may assume that you're some variety of pagan. It's not specifically a ceremonial or religious term, just one that has associations with the pagan community.

Tabby Uprising

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Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #136 on: April 04, 2013, 05:13:29 PM »
While I certainly don't believe that strapless = "tacky" (I despise that word) or "disrespectful", I do think the posters who feel that way have emphasized that if you get married in the church they consider it disrespectful.  I don't see them inferring that church weddings are the only way to go and I know some have even specified that strapless doesn't bother them in a non-church ceremony.  I think if church weddings are being emphasized it's because that's where they feel it becomes disrespectful. 

The idea that they are boring would apply to all ceremonies.  Yay?  But hey, why are brides getting all the scrutiny here?  If we're talking boring, I haven't seen much in cutting edge wedding attire couture for the grooms. 

mmswm

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Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #137 on: April 04, 2013, 05:36:27 PM »
I personally don't like strapless dresses.  On me. My own dress was an off the shoulder type ball gown. Sort of like this, but with a wider strap that covered more of the shoulder.  I know I don't have any digital pictures of my own gown, so this was the best I could find.

http://www.davidsbridal.com/Product_Ball-Gown-with-Illusion-Straps-and-Button-Back-PWG3442_Bridal-Gowns-Shop-By-Silhouette-Ball-Gown

That said, while I personally don't like the look of strapless, there are many women who look lovely in them, and as long as the church/temple/synagogue doesn't object, then I don't  see the problem. 
Some people lift weights.  I lift measures.  It's a far more esoteric workout. - (Quoted from a personal friend)

DottyG

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Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #138 on: April 04, 2013, 05:40:34 PM »
Quote
(Plus: There are still debutantes these days?)

Haven't read the thread, yet, but I can respond to the above.

Yes.  I was one.  White dress and all.


LadyL

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Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #139 on: April 04, 2013, 05:43:24 PM »
While I certainly don't believe that strapless = "tacky" (I despise that word) or "disrespectful"

I don't like tacky either, because tacky is a matter of taste, not etiquette. Disrespectful in the context of etiquette suggests to me something like "ignoring a stated dress code" (i.e. wearing sweat pants to a black tie affair). If the stated dress code of a house of worship does not prohibit strapless it is not disrespectful.

It also makes me think about the outdated argument that a woman who dresses "provocatively" doesn't respect herself.

More on tacky here: http://offbeatbride.com/2008/07/tacky

whiterose

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Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #140 on: April 04, 2013, 07:09:46 PM »
Of the 5 couples I know that have gotten married this year:

Three of the brides wore strapless dresses. One of them got married in a church (albeit a laid-back, progressive one). The other two got married outdoors.

The other 2 brides wore dresses with cap sleeves. One got married in a Greek Orthodox church. The other one got married in a restaurant.

Will update more after Saturday, since two other couples I know will be getting married that day.
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Piratelvr1121

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Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #141 on: April 04, 2013, 07:41:53 PM »
Mine wasn't what most would consider a wedding gown, I'm sure, as it was silver/gray with shamrocks embroidered in it with silver thread and had straps but no sleeves.  But then I got married in a courthouse.

I wouldn't be comfortable wearing a sleeveless dress in a church, though, as I just can't shake the old notion of not showing one's shoulders or knees. 
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars.  You have a right to be here. Be cheerful, strive to be happy. -Desiderata

Aeris

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Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #142 on: April 04, 2013, 09:07:57 PM »
While I certainly don't believe that strapless = "tacky" (I despise that word) or "disrespectful", I do think the posters who feel that way have emphasized that if you get married in the church they consider it disrespectful.  I don't see them inferring that church weddings are the only way to go and I know some have even specified that strapless doesn't bother them in a non-church ceremony. I think if church weddings are being emphasized it's because that's where they feel it becomes disrespectful. 

The idea that they are boring would apply to all ceremonies.  Yay?  But hey, why are brides getting all the scrutiny here?  If we're talking boring, I haven't seen much in cutting edge wedding attire couture for the grooms.

Okay, so these posters aren't making weird blanket rules for all weddings ever, they are just making weird blanket rules for all religious weddings. Still not cool.

This attitude treats 'getting married in a church' as if 'church' only means one thing - as if religion itself is a monolithic entity where the rules, standards, and expectations are always the same. This is obviously patently false. There are not only many different religions, but within each religion many different denominations or sects, and then within those different individual church communities all with potentially *wildly divergent* standards of what decorum is expected.

It's not appropriate or polite to make a blanket statement that strapless gowns, or jeans, or coffee, or ipads, or uncovered hair, or pants on women, or men's shaved faces, or tattoos, or makeup, or anything else is "disrespectful in church" because (general) you don't get to tell me, or anyone else, how our churches-that-you-do-not-attend are supposed to function. You can say "this would be considered disrespectful in MY church". You can say "I would not be comfortable in a church where this was accepted". But you don't get to say "this thing is disrespectful in church" as if you are speaking for the monolithic entity that is 'all church'.

Jaelle

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Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #143 on: April 04, 2013, 09:48:16 PM »
It's not appropriate or polite to make a blanket statement that strapless gowns, or jeans, or coffee, or ipads, or uncovered hair, or pants on women, or men's shaved faces, or tattoos, or makeup, or anything else is "disrespectful in church" because (general) you don't get to tell me, or anyone else, how our churches-that-you-do-not-attend are supposed to function. You can say "this would be considered disrespectful in MY church". You can say "I would not be comfortable in a church where this was accepted". But you don't get to say "this thing is disrespectful in church" as if you are speaking for the monolithic entity that is 'all church'.

I agree. The pastor of the church where I was married had no problem with my (strapless) dress. The priest who married us had no problem with my (strapless) dress. The members of the church who were invited to the wedding (including my elderly aunt, a staunch member who would have taken me loudly to task had she perceived any disrespect) told me numerous times how lovely my dress was.

Who, then, was I disrespecting?  ???
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Firecat

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Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #144 on: April 04, 2013, 10:06:00 PM »
While I certainly don't believe that strapless = "tacky" (I despise that word) or "disrespectful", I do think the posters who feel that way have emphasized that if you get married in the church they consider it disrespectful.  I don't see them inferring that church weddings are the only way to go and I know some have even specified that strapless doesn't bother them in a non-church ceremony. I think if church weddings are being emphasized it's because that's where they feel it becomes disrespectful. 

The idea that they are boring would apply to all ceremonies.  Yay?  But hey, why are brides getting all the scrutiny here?  If we're talking boring, I haven't seen much in cutting edge wedding attire couture for the grooms.

Okay, so these posters aren't making weird blanket rules for all weddings ever, they are just making weird blanket rules for all religious weddings. Still not cool.

This attitude treats 'getting married in a church' as if 'church' only means one thing - as if religion itself is a monolithic entity where the rules, standards, and expectations are always the same. This is obviously patently false. There are not only many different religions, but within each religion many different denominations or sects, and then within those different individual church communities all with potentially *wildly divergent* standards of what decorum is expected.

It's not appropriate or polite to make a blanket statement that strapless gowns, or jeans, or coffee, or ipads, or uncovered hair, or pants on women, or men's shaved faces, or tattoos, or makeup, or anything else is "disrespectful in church" because (general) you don't get to tell me, or anyone else, how our churches-that-you-do-not-attend are supposed to function. You can say "this would be considered disrespectful in MY church". You can say "I would not be comfortable in a church where this was accepted". But you don't get to say "this thing is disrespectful in church" as if you are speaking for the monolithic entity that is 'all church'.

POD.

Miss Tickle

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Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #145 on: April 04, 2013, 10:23:38 PM »
Miss Manners should try shopping for a wedding dress. I was recently a bridesmaid (ahem) in a wedding and we spent months trying to find a great dress that wasn't strapless. The bride eventually had a cover custom made.

Oh Joy

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Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #146 on: April 04, 2013, 11:01:06 PM »
...
It's not appropriate or polite to make a blanket statement that strapless gowns, or jeans, or coffee, or ipads, or uncovered hair, or pants on women, or men's shaved faces, or tattoos, or makeup, or anything else is "disrespectful in church" because (general) you don't get to tell me, or anyone else, how our churches-that-you-do-not-attend are supposed to function. You can say "this would be considered disrespectful in MY church". You can say "I would not be comfortable in a church where this was accepted". But you don't get to say "this thing is disrespectful in church" as if you are speaking for the monolithic entity that is 'all church'.

Quoting you only for example, not to pick directly to you, Aeris...

There are many ways to see this discussion, but I think it's ending up as a bit of a sensitive topic because we're combining a very emotional event (a wedding) with a very personal venue (the physical home of our faith).

When I read comments about what one or another poster feels is appropriate to wear to church, I don't see it any deeper than 'I don't think open toed shoes are appropriate for the office,' or 'I don't think sunglasses should be worn indoors.'  They're opinions about appropriate attire, and that's the kind of thing we're on this forum to discuss.  I'm not going to split hairs about phrasing, either.

Just my two cents.

ladyknight1

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Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #147 on: April 04, 2013, 11:06:16 PM »
I was married in 1997, and I had no problem finding my scooped neck, short sleeved dress. Of course, that is the way it was then, and now I see more "cookie cutter" dresses than unique. I love to see a happy couple make their wedding their style. I believe it is the right for everyone to choose what they want. However, I do not care for strapless gowns, and I will leave it at that.

I am baffled by the defensive responses to people's personal opinions.

DottyG

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Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #148 on: April 05, 2013, 12:00:10 AM »
Ok, I can stop all this "strapless" vs "not strapless" in a church conflict. Neither one is inappropriate attire ONCE YOU'VE WORN A SHOWER CURTAIN IN A CHURCH WEDDING!

http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=42997.msg1009198#msg1009198

See Reply #6

'Nuf said! :D


Piratelvr1121

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Re: Miss Manners on strapless wedding dresses
« Reply #149 on: April 05, 2013, 06:48:42 AM »
Ok, I can stop all this "strapless" vs "not strapless" in a church conflict. Neither one is inappropriate attire ONCE YOU'VE WORN A SHOWER CURTAIN IN A CHURCH WEDDING!

http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=42997.msg1009198#msg1009198

See Reply #6

'Nuf said! :D

Wow. 
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars.  You have a right to be here. Be cheerful, strive to be happy. -Desiderata