Author Topic: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence  (Read 10611 times)

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fountainsoflettuce

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2013, 01:26:49 PM »
She cannot afford to live in the neighborhood either now or in the foreseeable future, unless she wins the lottery.

Was that last bit necessary? Her financial background really has no relevance on the issue right now. It also sounds stuck up.

It was said to avoid any speculation in this thread discussion  that her finances may change in the future which would allow her to live in the area.  just like my situation may change in the future requiring me to move out.

edited-and i do know her finances will not support the high price of housing and increasing rental rates.   Prices keep increasing and her income has plateaued.

How do you know so much about this person's finances, or even that she is using this mail=drop scheme? Is this a personal relationshp that you have with her, or a professional one? (Do you have access to her finances through your job?)

She is an acquaintance I initially met through my next door neighbor.  We discussed kids, jobs, the controversy about the new restaurant nearby, etc. (the whole "what do you do" thing when you first meet people).  And my next door neighbor is our street captain and the neighborhood gossip so I've learned a lot of things I didn't necessary want to know.  Including the potential drug dealer who's moved into the apartment building around the corner and the new developer who just purchased another nearby apartment building and who will start renovations next month and...and..and...   

My husband also attended said University and a lot of his friends have purchased homes in the same district or in the next district.  So I hear about their neighborhood gossip as well. 

Then there's my neighborhood blog which includes a public forum, where the hot topic is the school enrollment issue. 

nrb80

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2013, 01:43:48 PM »
Honestly, you don't know what you don't know, and I do think it's polite to ignore gossip - and all you know is gossip and conjecture.

I live in arguably the best public school district in the US.  Its not terribly easy to enroll a child in public school - significant proof of residence is required.  The proof you've described - utility bills in her name, isn't actually that easy to fake - plus if the evidence is gossip from a very slight acquaintance versus written documentation, who would the district believe?

You also don't know if she is homeless, and might have a right to attend that school.  You know she's an hourly worker, but you don't know if she also inherited property there.  You don't know if she uses the "maildrop" because of a domestic violence situation and lives or her children live in te district.

If you do "report" her, I doubt it would benefit your child, and likely it will reflect poorly on you and your children.  Its not unlikely that you will be judged to be a gossip - which may lead to social sanctions that could have a severe impact on your children's education.

fountainsoflettuce

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2013, 02:01:31 PM »
Respectfully, not all of my information is based on gossip.  Some of it came from the woman herself.  And now I'll bow out.

WillyNilly

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2013, 02:10:00 PM »
When someone tells you they are say, a cashier at Target, or a public employee like a teacher or a cop, its really not so difficult to form a truthful idea of what their income is - its pretty much public info. OP says the woman mentioned her job. Sure maybe OP doesn't know what the future holds for this woman, but its not a stretch or gossip to say she has a good idea of the current situation.

Reporting the woman won't result in immediate expulsion of the child from school or imprisonment of the mom. Reporting her would at most do one thing: start an investigation. That's it. The results of the investigation might result in the kid getting kicked out of school or repercussions for the mom, but they would be due to the mom's actions, not the person who reported her.

*inviteseller

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2013, 02:12:10 PM »
We have that problem in my district.  We border a district with a sub par schools and ours is constantly in the top 5 of the state and has received national recognition, so there are people who scam a relative or friend into using their address and drop the kids off at the school bus stops in the morning.  While it is a mostly upper class district, there are rentals but they are more than the district with the interlopers .  To me, it is plain and simple theft.  I moved here specifically for the schools and it galls me when my tax money is paying for kids who do not live here.  Live here if you want out services, otherwise figure out how to make your district better.  I know I had to show a current ID with my address and picture, plus tax bills/deeds/leases as required.  They don't accept utility bills anymore, and I think it is because anyone can get a utility turned on in their name anywhere.  I have reported 2 families that I knew for sure were not living in our district.  After an investigation, their scheme fell apart, the kids were kicked out of school and the district pursued a judgement against the parents and the people who helped them out by providing an address were charged with fraud too.  nrb80, if it were your child who might not get into the school because someone was scamming their kids in, how would you feel?  I know I would spit nails if I lost on a lottery after spending the money to buy a house in a high end neighborhood and paid taxes, to someone who wanted the benefit of an education without actually living there.  I do feel for people who are of lower economic situations who do not have the best schools in their neighborhoods (I am by no means rich myself), but either work to make your district better or scrimp and save to find a place in a better district like I have.

jaxsue

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2013, 02:30:33 PM »
I see her reasons for not living in the district as irrelevant. The only fact that matters is that she doesn't live in the district and her child is not entitled to attend the school. That should be pointed out to the authorities because it directly impacts every family who does live there. And that's all.

Agreed.

Two Ravens

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2013, 02:51:05 PM »
When someone tells you they are say, a cashier at Target, or a public employee like a teacher or a cop, its really not so difficult to form a truthful idea of what their income is - its pretty much public info. OP says the woman mentioned her job. Sure maybe OP doesn't know what the future holds for this woman, but its not a stretch or gossip to say she has a good idea of the current situation.

Reporting the woman won't result in immediate expulsion of the child from school or imprisonment of the mom. Reporting her would at most do one thing: start an investigation. That's it. The results of the investigation might result in the kid getting kicked out of school or repercussions for the mom, but they would be due to the mom's actions, not the person who reported her.

I don't agree. You might have a general idea of the person's current salary, but you have no idea what their total income is. They could have investment income, or an inheritance, or a structured settlement, or be receiving alimony. Just knowing someone's job does not mean you know their entire financial situation.

kareng57

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2013, 03:11:35 PM »
When someone tells you they are say, a cashier at Target, or a public employee like a teacher or a cop, its really not so difficult to form a truthful idea of what their income is - its pretty much public info. OP says the woman mentioned her job. Sure maybe OP doesn't know what the future holds for this woman, but its not a stretch or gossip to say she has a good idea of the current situation.

Reporting the woman won't result in immediate expulsion of the child from school or imprisonment of the mom. Reporting her would at most do one thing: start an investigation. That's it. The results of the investigation might result in the kid getting kicked out of school or repercussions for the mom, but they would be due to the mom's actions, not the person who reported her.

I don't agree. You might have a general idea of the person's current salary, but you have no idea what their total income is. They could have investment income, or an inheritance, or a structured settlement, or be receiving alimony. Just knowing someone's job does not mean you know their entire financial situation.


POD.  I'll never understand why some people figure that they know all the financial details of people who are near-strangers.

For all we know, the woman could be independently wealthy but working retail simply to get out of the house and meet people.  OP's situation sounds like nothing more than gossip.  If there's a concern about ineligible families registering at the school, she can take it up with local authorities but pointing fingers at a particular parent seems to be tattle-taleing.

SoCalVal

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2013, 03:14:07 PM »
How did you find this out? If it's just a suspicion (hearsay or you made an inference), I'd leave it alone. I agree with NyaChan that trying to confront her will accomplish nothing good.

If you think a number of people know what she is doing, it makes little sense that none of them have reported it, especially in such an excellent (and full) school district. Are you absolutely sure about this?

yes I know for sure.  A letter addressed to her was delivered to my house. When I went to drop it off, her "mail drop" screwed up the cover story.  I confirmed my suspicions with real estate records.  Absent a bona fide lease and she's paying current rental rates, she does not live in the district.   She's a single mother with 2 kids working an hourly job.  I understand she wants the best for her kids but...doing so fraudulently is a problem for me.

   When discussing the school enrollment situation with other neighbors who have kids, I learned that there are several others using "mail drops" and this is one reason (allegedly) why there are not enough spots for the kids who actually do live in the district to attend this particular elementary school. 

   

I just want to point out that a job being hourly doesn't necessarily indicate it's a job that doesn't pay well (e.g. our staff pharmacists are all hourly, and they make six-figure incomes).

That aside, I wouldn't have a problem with reporting the neighbor and others to the school district if I were in your place (sacrificing to live in a better neighborhood in order to have access to the better schools).



WillyNilly

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2013, 03:17:39 PM »
When someone tells you they are say, a cashier at Target, or a public employee like a teacher or a cop, its really not so difficult to form a truthful idea of what their income is - its pretty much public info. OP says the woman mentioned her job. Sure maybe OP doesn't know what the future holds for this woman, but its not a stretch or gossip to say she has a good idea of the current situation.

Reporting the woman won't result in immediate expulsion of the child from school or imprisonment of the mom. Reporting her would at most do one thing: start an investigation. That's it. The results of the investigation might result in the kid getting kicked out of school or repercussions for the mom, but they would be due to the mom's actions, not the person who reported her.


I don't agree. You might have a general idea of the person's current salary, but you have no idea what their total income is. They could have investment income, or an inheritance, or a structured settlement, or be receiving alimony. Just knowing someone's job does not mean you know their entire financial situation.


I never said anyone would "know their entire financial situation" I said a person would have an "idea of the current situation".
And really the finances are only a small part of it anyway, and only an indirect part at that. The issue is primary residency and the kids going to school in the district.

As I mentioned, reporting this woman (regardless of whether she is a pauper or a millionaire) is merely, at most, going to spark an investigation as to her & her kid's legal, primary, residence. If her kids do not live in the district, her kids should not be going to the school.

Sluggyfan

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2013, 03:18:59 PM »
I'm sorry, you're about to report a woman because you assume she can't afford the school and doesn't live in the district? Do you have any proof? Why on earth would you butt in at all?

And everything in your post reminds me of how desperately awful school finances are handled in the US - how dare a whole district be obviously better because the parents can afford higher taxes? How dare other children be given less of a chance at a public school because families are lower income? How on earth is that equal? ?

And how dare another mother, who snobbishly points out that a woman cannot (in her own mind) afford to live in a district, try to bar another child from what is seen as obviously a better education, again, at a public school? Infuriating.



nrb80

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2013, 03:26:36 PM »
nrb80, if it were your child who might not get into the school because someone was scamming their kids in, how would you feel? 

Exactly the same.  I also provide free legal services and other volunteer hours to low income families in my incredibly wealthy county - including assisting with representations of children who are being bounced from schools due to accusations of false homelessness or similar. 

Regardless, how I would feel, or you would feel, or the OP would feel isn't really the point.  As to the OP's original question, I would not accuse a person of falsifying their residence based only on neighborhood gossip or what the person said to me socially.  If the person said "I really live in Connecticut, and I am never in New Jersey, and I know I have no right to send my kids to New Jersey schools, but I love this school so I am going to scam my way in" I would probably say something.  As to my point, I don't think it is polite or effective to repeat gossip and conjecture - and moreover, the school system has their own verification methods.   In our school system, accusations like this are usually either ignored - to some extent, if a person issues a false lease to an adult child and moves the utilities to the adult child's name and so on, there's nothing that can be done - or are now sent to a referral for assistance and services - to help families who are trying to keep their kids in their old school now that they are homeless or casually homed.

There are a couple of chronic complainers that apparently exist - and their complaints reflect badly on them, not on those they complain about.  Here, the issue is complaints about multi-generational families living in houses, and whether a child "really" lives at the house or is just visiting.

Which is a long way of saying that the social wheels are greased by kindness and dignity.  And it there is such an incredible issue in the OP's community then the way of dealing with it is through the school board and/or other appropriate citizen-facing body - advocating for different verification procedures, etc, rather than repeating gossip and conjecture about one family.

fountainsoflettuce

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2013, 03:28:26 PM »
I'm sorry, you're about to report a woman because you assume she can't afford the school and doesn't live in the district? Do you have any proof? Why on earth would you butt in at all?

And everything in your post reminds me of how desperately awful school finances are handled in the US - how dare a whole district be obviously better because the parents can afford higher taxes? How dare other children be given less of a chance at a public school because families are lower income? How on earth is that equal? ?

And how dare another mother, who snobbishly points out that a woman cannot (in her own mind) afford to live in a district, try to bar another child from what is seen as obviously a better education, again, at a public school? Infuriating.

That's not what I said at all. 

Dorrie78

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #43 on: April 05, 2013, 03:31:26 PM »
I'm sorry, you're about to report a woman because you assume she can't afford the school and doesn't live in the district? Do you have any proof? Why on earth would you butt in at all?

And everything in your post reminds me of how desperately awful school finances are handled in the US - how dare a whole district be obviously better because the parents can afford higher taxes? How dare other children be given less of a chance at a public school because families are lower income? How on earth is that equal? ?

And how dare another mother, who snobbishly points out that a woman cannot (in her own mind) afford to live in a district, try to bar another child from what is seen as obviously a better education, again, at a public school? Infuriating.
Apparently the OP does have the proof that this woman doesn't live in the district. This isn't about affording the school - it's about affording to live in the district. I don't think there is anything wrong with the lawful residents of a district reporting unlawful activity, especially when it can impact the children of the lawful residents. It's too bad about school funding, but asking an individual to sacrifice her own children for the "common good" is a bit much, in my opinion. Work to change the system, but don't blame someone for making the decision to figure out a way to work in the system in the meantime.

OP - if you are still reading, there is no reason you need to let this "neighbor" know if you plan to report her.

nrb80

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2013, 03:32:43 PM »
As I mentioned, reporting this woman (regardless of whether she is a pauper or a millionaire) is merely, at most, going to spark an investigation as to her & her kid's legal, primary, residence. If her kids do not live in the district, her kids should not be going to the school.

In most states, it's not quite that simple.  There are a variety of situations that may lawfully place a child in a school outside the district or zone in which they are living.  In my opinion, that's between the State, the school, and the family, and any family who attends a school, even if they live elsewhere, should be treated with the same dignity and grace as any other.