Author Topic: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence  (Read 12564 times)

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fountainsoflettuce

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #60 on: April 05, 2013, 04:27:59 PM »
The OP already clarified in another post that the ONLY reason she brought up income was so that people here could not nitpick that maybe the woman owned extra property, had plans to move there in a few months, etc. Now, people are nitpicking on the fact that she says she knows the person's financial info.

Thank you.  This is it exactly.   How many times do we see a thread devolve into baseless speculation?

Mikayla

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #61 on: April 05, 2013, 04:28:26 PM »
Quote from: kareng57 link=topic=126515.msg2919344#msg2919344
It was the OP who made it "about" affording the school when she mentioned having a lot of knowledge about the other parent's financial circumstances.  That made it very much the tone of we-don't-want-those-kinds-of-people-attending-our-school.

Karen, you're in UK?  There may be some regional disconnects, but the issue here isn't about a certain "kind" of person.  It's someone not eligible to attend a certain school, because their parents don't live in the district from which the school accepts students, meaning the parents don't pay property taxes to support that school. 

I was lucky enough to attend a top ranked public high school, and we had these same issues. 

EllenS

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #62 on: April 05, 2013, 04:34:48 PM »
But did she tell you where she "really" lives? 

If your gut tells you to report her, then that is what you should do. And let the authorities sort out the proof.

However, the situation is not nearly as cut and dried as you originally indicated.
1) Having your name on property or a lease outside the district does not prove that is your primary residence.  There is such a thing as subletting.
2) Not all leases are a matter of public record.  They are still valid.
3) Unless the letter you got was from the school, you have no idea if the "mail drop" address is the one she registered with the school.
4) Many people use offsite mailing addresses for various, personal reasons.
5) Neighborhood gossips do not always have the whole truth, nor do they always tell the whole truth.

What I (and it would appear, several other pp's) object to is your air of certainty of what you "just know" - but the only backup you can offer is gossip, suspicion and facts that do not in fact prove what you say they prove.  Yes, the situation looks shady.  But it does not reflect well on you to go around insisting that you know so much about this woman and her personal information - when you don't really know at all, you just assume.
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Two Ravens

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #63 on: April 05, 2013, 04:36:35 PM »
I'm sorry, you're about to report a woman because you assume she can't afford the school and doesn't live in the district? Do you have any proof? Why on earth would you butt in at all?

And everything in your post reminds me of how desperately awful school finances are handled in the US - how dare a whole district be obviously better because the parents can afford higher taxes? How dare other children be given less of a chance at a public school because families are lower income? How on earth is that equal? ?

And how dare another mother, who snobbishly points out that a woman cannot (in her own mind) afford to live in a district, try to bar another child from what is seen as obviously a better education, again, at a public school? Infuriating.
Apparently the OP does have the proof that this woman doesn't live in the district. This isn't about affording the school - it's about affording to live in the district. I don't think there is anything wrong with the lawful residents of a district reporting unlawful activity, especially when it can impact the children of the lawful residents. It's too bad about school funding, but asking an individual to sacrifice her own children for the "common good" is a bit much, in my opinion. Work to change the system, but don't blame someone for making the decision to figure out a way to work in the system in the meantime.

OP - if you are still reading, there is no reason you need to let this "neighbor" know if you plan to report her.


It was the OP who made it "about" affording the school when she mentioned having a lot of knowledge about the other parent's financial circumstances.  That made it very much the tone of we-don't-want-those-kinds-of-people-attending-our-school.

Wait, what kinds of people?  I read it as, she can't afford to live in the district therefore she does not live in the district and therefore her child is not eligible to go to the school. 

There are a lot of neighborhoods and school districts I can't afford to reside in.  What kind of person does that make me?

A person who can't afford to live in that district, no more no less.  Doesn't make you a bad or good person.

As I said, I spoke to the woman when I first met her. We discussed *jobs*, *kids*, the neighborhood controversy about the new sub sandwich shop, etc.   In the course of our conversation I learned she is a city employee, divorced, no alimony, not paying child support.  We discussed the cost of daycare as I was looking into it at the time.  She told me where she went and how much.  Good, full time daycare downtown costs 4-figures a month.  She was happy kid #1 was ready for school b/c that lowered her daycare costs.    Draw your own conclusions.

Nothing of what you wrote would automatically lead me to believe that she would never be able to afford to live in your neighborhood. Maybe there's someone else is having financial difficulties is letting her houseshare with them as long as she pays utilities. If you have other suspicions than fine go ahead and report her but I think basing it solely on her salary and what you think she should be able to afford is a bit much.

fountainsoflettuce

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #64 on: April 05, 2013, 04:40:28 PM »
But did she tell you where she "really" lives? 

If your gut tells you to report her, then that is what you should do. And let the authorities sort out the proof.

However, the situation is not nearly as cut and dried as you originally indicated.
1) Having your name on property or a lease outside the district does not prove that is your primary residence.  There is such a thing as subletting.
2) Not all leases are a matter of public record.  They are still valid.
3) Unless the letter you got was from the school, you have no idea if the "mail drop" address is the one she registered with the school.
4) Many people use offsite mailing addresses for various, personal reasons.
5) Neighborhood gossips do not always have the whole truth, nor do they always tell the whole truth.

What I (and it would appear, several other pp's) object to is your air of certainty of what you "just know" - but the only backup you can offer is gossip, suspicion and facts that do not in fact prove what you say they prove.  Yes, the situation looks shady.  But it does not reflect well on you to go around insisting that you know so much about this woman and her personal information - when you don't really know at all, you just assume.

I am a landlord.  I am aware leases are rarely public records.  I had a conversation with the woman. I visited her alleged address and had an interesting conversation with the individual present at the address.  I looked at public records.  I heard the gossip but as stated previously, I also take it with a lot of salt.  And you're assuming I would walk around gloating  or gossiping that I reported her.  There is nothing in any of my posts to suggest such an action.     And I would not do so.   

MOM21SON

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #65 on: April 05, 2013, 04:45:25 PM »
I don't think you should say anything to her, but I would definately say something to the school.

It is lying, dishonest and sneaky and it could affect you.

audrey1962

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #66 on: April 05, 2013, 04:50:08 PM »
As I said, I spoke to the woman when I first met her. We discussed *jobs*, *kids*, the neighborhood controversy about the new sub sandwich shop, etc.   In the course of our conversation I learned she is a city employee, divorced, no alimony, not paying child support.  We discussed the cost of daycare as I was looking into it at the time.  She told me where she went and how much.  Good, full time daycare downtown costs 4-figures a month.  She was happy kid #1 was ready for school b/c that lowered her daycare costs.    Draw your own conclusions.

The only conclusion I'm drawing is that she's a divorced working mother of two with one child in daycare and one ready to start school.

Quote
And you're assuming I would walk around gloating  or gossiping that I reported her.

That's because you indicated in your OP that you might mention it to her:

Quote
Should I also ask the neighbor to stop it?

lowspark

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #67 on: April 05, 2013, 04:54:22 PM »
You have really put a lot of effort into tracking this woman. 

Here is the case I was thinking of.  The woman in this case will be in jail for 5 years for the larceny of educational services charge, and has other sentences related to other charges.
http://www.norwalkcitizenonline.com/news/article/5-years-in-prison-for-Tanya-McDowell-3350071.php

I understand your concern about your child's place in the school, and of course it is not legal or right for her to do this, but If this is a single mom, I would think twice before I would risk being personally responsible for sending those kids to foster care.  Especially in a situation where my kids have equally good options and her kids do not.

Regarding the bolded above, reporting suspected criminal activity does not make the one who reports it responsible for the consequences to the criminal for that activity. The person responsible for the consequences is the person who commits the crime. Deciding what the consequences will be is the responsibility of the authorities involved in the due process.

I agree with PPs who said to report your findings to the proper authorities, stating the facts as you know them, and let them proceed as they see fit. I also agree you owe nothing to the mother in the way of a heads up.


EllenS

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #68 on: April 05, 2013, 04:57:54 PM »
Lowspark, that was a statement about my feelings and whether I would want to get involved myself, not about a general principle of ethics.
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rose red

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #69 on: April 05, 2013, 05:08:44 PM »
When I was in middle school, our family moved to a house and I was suppose to go to *new school* which was weird because I would have to take the bus, while *old school* was within walking distance.  I don't know what my parents did, but they they got a letter of permission for me to stay at my old school.

In High School, a girl lived in another town, but attended my school because she and her parents liked the environment better (ironically, it was a reversal of the OP's issue.  She didn't want to attend her rich town's public school). 

So the situation may not be black and white, and the lady may have permission to apply.  Go ahead and tell your suspicions to whoever is in charge.  If she is wrong to apply, the authorities will take care of it.  But if the child shows up in school after the report, she may rightfully be a student. 

saffron

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #70 on: April 05, 2013, 05:14:20 PM »
Seems to me that the financials of the individual are completely irrelevant.

I think that the OP caught wind of a situation, realized that there could be a potential fallout which could directly affect her (her kids being bumped because of space shortage) and did some quick fact checking to see if s/he was overreacting. OP realized that no, there is probably some merit to making a formal complaint and plans to do so.

OP - I don't think you owe the lady any warning unless she is part of your circle of friends - as PPs stated - if you make the complaint the PTB will proceed as they see fit.


Docslady21

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #71 on: April 05, 2013, 05:18:34 PM »
As I said, I spoke to the woman when I first met her. We discussed *jobs*, *kids*, the neighborhood controversy about the new sub sandwich shop, etc.   In the course of our conversation I learned she is a city employee, divorced, no alimony, not paying child support.  We discussed the cost of daycare as I was looking into it at the time.  She told me where she went and how much.  Good, full time daycare downtown costs 4-figures a month.  She was happy kid #1 was ready for school b/c that lowered her daycare costs.    Draw your own conclusions.

The only conclusion I'm drawing is that she's a divorced working mother of two with one child in daycare and one ready to start school.

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And you're assuming I would walk around gloating  or gossiping that I reported her.


That's because you indicated in your OP that you might mention it to her:

Quote
Should I also ask the neighbor to stop it?

She asked if etiquette required that she talk to the woman first. How, from that, did you infer the OP would gloat or gossip about reporting her?

EllenS

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #72 on: April 05, 2013, 05:25:54 PM »
And you're assuming I would walk around gloating  or gossiping that I reported her.   

That was not my statement and was not my assumption.  You have misread me.
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kareng57

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #73 on: April 05, 2013, 05:30:36 PM »
When I was in middle school, our family moved to a house and I was suppose to go to *new school* which was weird because I would have to take the bus, while *old school* was within walking distance.  I don't know what my parents did, but they they got a letter of permission for me to stay at my old school.

In High School, a girl lived in another town, but attended my school because she and her parents liked the environment better (ironically, it was a reversal of the OP's issue.  She didn't want to attend her rich town's public school). 

So the situation may not be black and white, and the lady may have permission to apply.  Go ahead and tell your suspicions to whoever is in charge.  If she is wrong to apply, the authorities will take care of it.  But if the child shows up in school after the report, she may rightfully be a student.


Yes - in my area, parents who want their child to attend a school not in their catchment area can fill out a request-form.  If they have a good reason, such as not wanting to switch to another daycare centre, it's often granted.  And parents who move out of the catchment area while their kids are still in the school are usually allowed to have their kids remain there.

So I think it could be prudent to bring it up as a general concern (i.e. needing a more solid proof-of-residence from everyone) rather than zeroeing in on a particular parent.

MummySweet

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Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
« Reply #74 on: April 05, 2013, 05:32:28 PM »
If you strongly suspect that someone is misrepresenting their physical address to access services they are not entitled to, you should feel free to report your suspicions and allow the appropriate authorities to investigate.  It is the responsibility of those appropriate authorities to both set the rules/requirements for admission and to enforce them.

There is no reason to speak to the woman herself.       

I too live in a very sought after public school district.    The admission requirements are quite specific and stringent, although one can find ways to get around them.     For your perusal this is what our district requires:

FORMS NEEDED FOR REGISTRATION:
 
All required documents MUST be provided at the time of registration; NO EXCEPTIONS
State law requires that students be 5 on or before September 1st to enroll in kindergarten
 
 
1.  Parent/Guardian Picture ID
 
2.  Alabama Blue Immunization Card **We cannot accept anything other than the Alabama Blue Card
Cards are obtained through your doctor or public health department
  Students will not be enrolled into 6th grade without booster dose of Tdap that is now required for all 11 and 12 year olds
    3.  Copy of Student's Certified Birth Certificate (not a hospital copy)

4.  Social Security Card (can be a copy). If a Social Security Card is not available, the following items will be accepted:
Recent letter from Social Security Office verifying card number
Passport
Military ID
Current tax return (registering student listed as dependent)
Medicaid card with Social Security Number
 
5.  Custody papers (required if student lives with someone other than both parents listed on birth certificate)
 
*Please Note: For other custody issues or questions, please call or email xxxxxxxxxxx for clarification before arrival.
 
6.  Student withdrawal form from previous school
 
7.  Grade-level Verification
Middle and high school - transcript (unofficial accepted)
Elementary - last report card
 
8.  Proof of Residency (in parent/guardian's name) may include but not limited to one of the following:
 
Own:
Deed for the residence in use and current utility bill (gas, water or electric)
or
Current property tax receipt for the residence in use and current utility bill (gas, water or electric)
 
Rent:
Signed lease for the residence in use and current utility bill (gas, water or electric)
Must be signed by both parties or it will not be accepted
 
Contracts:
Those who have a contract or builder’s contract on a home are required to fill out the Assignment or Transfer Request form prior to registration
 
9.  Registration Forms for students enrolling for 2013-2014 school year - complete the following forms online, print, and bring with you to registration
 
Must have the following to register:
Parent Information Form - complete one parent form per family, copies will be made as needed
Student Registration Form - (K-12) complete one per child registering for school
Parent Employment Survey - complete one survey per family
National School Lunch Form (optional)